Roast On-field leadership

[shintemaster]

You can’t lead if you cant play. That’s been our problem for quite a while. Those in the leadership group can’t actually play the game in a fashion that earns the respect of their team mates.

You pretty much said exactly what I was going to say in about as short a way as possible. In simple terms 2 main components (yes there are a host of other tangible and intangible things - many of which we never see) are required to be a leader:

• Good, consistent high performing football
• Ability to lead / inspire / drag other players into line

Very tough to do much of the latter when your hands are full even remotely breaking even on the former. You can be the best leader in the world but it won't help you much if your playing ability due to injury, age, form or whatever means that you are going 100% even trying to positively impact the side. It swings both ways obviously. I think JZ leads from the front, always has. Represents the club well off field and keeps his nose clean but it's tough to inspire when you're approaching the end in team that can't help cover some of your weaknesses.

Next month or so will be interesting in JZ's absence, curious to see who gets tapped on the shoulder. Jy was very much seen as heir apparent for mine however he has his hands full arguably trying to carry - rightly or wrongly - a young midfield. I'd rather he just gets back to doing his core job at the moment.

I said at the start of the year that it was the most embarrassing leadership group (outside of McDonald & Simpkin) I think I've ever seen. You have two players in there who struggle to get 10 possessions a game let alone actually having an impact. You have a key defender (Corr) who only likes to play as a loose defender and you have Larkey who is lacking a fair bit of maturity.

To be a good leader, you actually have to have influence on field. That's the number 1 thing imo. All the best captains make their teammates walk taller, through their actions on field.


Nothing, absolutely nothing. We gutted the list of maturity and let guys like Tarrant & Dumont go for nothing.

The void of leadership at all levels has been prevalent since we sacked Boomer, Spud, Petrie ect.

Absolutely. You don't have to be in the top 2-3 players to be captain - you do have to be rock solid in your role though and able to deliver that core football at a strong level without pressure to maintain your spot. Otherwise the pressure builds (much of it in the players own mind IMO).

Agree we got rid of too much fit maturity. Not saying all or any of these guys were the "solution" long term but IMO there were too many of them cut too quickly. Dumont is a good example, even Pittard for mine who played heart on sleeve, was willing to take it on whether he copped hits or not. Those are the types you need whilst the s**t is hitting the fan.

 

[astrovic]

I went hard in the off season saying that Ziebell has done everything to warrant keeping him as captain, writing a long post explaining why. One thing I mentioned was that I back him in not only as a leader (still do), but to know when it's time. And I think that time is now.

For various reasons which have been discussed on here at turgid, soul-destroying length, this season has gone badly. No need to repeat any of that. In relation to Jack, I don't think it has helped that the coach has put him in the forward line, which is simply being starved of opportunities. He's simply being put miles off where the ball is, making it hard for him to provide leadership (I'm sure there will be those saying that he's being put there to hide him from the action, but I don't think it is as simple as that). But whatever the case, he isn't providing effective leadership, he isn't playing well, and while sending him back to the backline might seem like a solution but it robs us of what Noble is obviously doing, which is trying to build a new backline and get some fresh blood in there. Corr returning kinda forces Ziebell out of there as well, unless Walker gets sent forward.

I think the playing group needs some kind of shock to the system, to make them examine where they are at and what they are about. You can see in the reactive, uncertain way they play that they don't trust themselves and they don't trust their teammates, and that more than anything is why we are so easy to beat right now. Sacking the coach often provides that shock, but changing coaches right now is just deckchairs on the Titanic stuff. Maybe at the end of the year.

At any rate, I think Ziebell should stand down as captain now, over the mid-season break. A true leader knows the value of sacrifice, and I think of the message he would send by saying "I'm not providing effective leadership, and I'm not happy with how I'm playing, so I won't let it be said that I'm being gifted a spot on the team by virtue of being the captain. It's time for new leadership, and it's important that I'm seen to earn my spot on the team on merit just like everyone else. If that means I play VFL, then that means I play VFL."

Jack standing down as captain would be humbling and honest, and I think it would wake up the playing group. I get the impression that Jack commands a lot of respect, but right now the group is miserable and has become insular and inward-thinking. They might respect Jack, but they're too focussed on themselves for it to make much of a difference. Maybe Jack handing over the captaincy might be the wake up call the team needs, to start thinking about how they, too, can put the club and each other first again. And it might be the best thing for Jack.

 

[Mordecai]

So we need to launch Operation Old Guy.

We need someone like Hodge at Brisbane (or Birchall), Sam Mitchell and West Coast, Jordan Lewis

Jordan Lewis

Age

38

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.7

4star

MG

310.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.0

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

5star

and the Dees.

Ideally, they don't have to be in the guts taking up valuable minutes (like greenwood) - they should be versatile.

Who could we target? Pendlebury, Selwood, Cotchin come to mind.

We really need an injection of leadership at the top level at minimal cost (trade-wise).

 

[amaz199]

I went hard in the off season saying that Ziebell has done everything to warrant keeping him as captain, writing a long post explaining why. One thing I mentioned was that I back him in not only as a leader (still do), but to know when it's time. And I think that time is now.

For various reasons which have been discussed on here at turgid, soul-destroying length, this season has gone badly. No need to repeat any of that. In relation to Jack, I don't think it has helped that the coach has put him in the forward line, which is simply being starved of opportunities. He's simply being put miles off where the ball is, making it hard for him to provide leadership (I'm sure there will be those saying that he's being put there to hide him from the action, but I don't think it is as simple as that). But whatever the case, he isn't providing effective leadership, he isn't playing well, and while sending him back to the backline might seem like a solution but it robs us of what Noble is obviously doing, which is trying to build a new backline and get some fresh blood in there. Corr returning kinda forces Ziebell out of there as well, unless Walker gets sent forward.

I think the playing group needs some kind of shock to the system, to make them examine where they are at and what they are about. You can see in the reactive, uncertain way they play that they don't trust themselves and they don't trust their teammates, and that more than anything is why we are so easy to beat right now. Sacking the coach often provides that shock, but changing coaches right now is just deckchairs on the Titanic stuff. Maybe at the end of the year.

At any rate, I think Ziebell should stand down as captain now, over the mid-season break. A true leader knows the value of sacrifice, and I think of the message he would send by saying "I'm not providing effective leadership, and I'm not happy with how I'm playing, so I won't let it be said that I'm being gifted a spot on the team by virtue of being the captain. It's time for new leadership, and it's important that I'm seen to earn my spot on the team on merit just like everyone else. If that means I play VFL, then that means I play VFL."

Jack standing down as captain would be humbling and honest, and I think it would wake up the playing group. I get the impression that Jack commands a lot of respect, but right now the group is miserable and has become insular and inward-thinking. They might respect Jack, but they're too focussed on themselves for it to make much of a difference. Maybe Jack handing over the captaincy might be the wake up call the team needs, to start thinking about how they, too, can put the club and each other first again. And it might be the best thing for Jack.

Exquisite post.

 

[Horizons_00]

I heard on a podcast years ago that Zeebs was very happy to hand over the captaincy (tounge in cheek obviously) but still, I reckon it will be a weight off his shoulders

 

[HongKongRoo]

I would like to see Goldy as captain while Zebs is out. We have an experienced player who is an ultimate professional and still playing at an elite level. He plays in the guts and is right in the thick of the action.

 

[shintemaster]

I would like to see Goldy as captain while Zebs is out. We have an experienced player who is an ultimate professional and still playing at an elite level. He plays in the guts and is right in the thick of the action.

Goldy was actually the first player that came to mind for me. Not that I think he is a natural long term captain - but he is in decent form, knows his role, gets around the whole ground and can hand on heart say he is the best player in the position on the list. It also avoids over complicating an interim solution by going to Simpkin etc. Messy that he's not in the official group though so more than likely it will be Jy or Lmac IMO.

 

[Mr Lloyd Christmas]

Larkey is the one that pisses me off the most.

Never stops whinging and moaning, arguing with teammates etc.*


*Reminds me of me of the last few days.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Also talking about on field leadership, for the first time ever I thought LDU stood up on the weekend and really tried to stamp himself on the game in a way that we haven't had a player do other than Cunnington in a long time. It was a shame he missed those couple of goal opportunities as his belief would've gone to another level if he nailed them.

Last week was probably the first time he hasn't gone missing after half time. A good step in the right direction but still a fair way to go.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Larkey is the one that pisses me off the most.

Never stops whinging and moaning, arguing with teammates etc.*


*Reminds me of me of the last few days.

The thing that annoys me most about Larkey is the way he often chooses to play for free kicks rather than crash a contest with authority.

 

[shintemaster]

The thing that annoys me most about Larkey is the way he often chooses to play for free kicks rather than crash a contest with authority.

It's not his style though and realistically not sure he has the build for that. It's also why it is important to get a functioning tall next to him. Umpires rarely pay free kicks in congestion to a forward scrapping for position (irrespective of what the rules say they should do), much easier to get frees on the run or 1 on 1 where the umpire has a clear view.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Goldy is the only one that looks like a leader out on the ground with the way he carries himself. Shame he only has about 12 months left in him.

 

[Mr Lloyd Christmas]

The thing that annoys me most about Larkey is the way he often chooses to play for free kicks rather than crash a contest with authority.

Oh yeah, he is very frustrating to watch - don't forget he always wants it over the back (which defenders love, hence he gets beaten in the air) then abuses the s**t out of his teammates for kicking to a leading target where he should have been to start with.

 

[King Corey]

So we need to launch Operation Old Guy.

We need someone like Hodge at Brisbane (or Birchall), Sam Mitchell and West Coast, Jordan Lewis and the Dees.

Ideally, they don't have to be in the guts taking up valuable minutes (like greenwood) - they should be versatile.

Who could we target? Pendlebury, Selwood, Cotchin come to mind.

We really need an injection of leadership at the top level at minimal cost (trade-wise).

Was this like St Kilda's Operation Old Fella?

 

[roos_fanatic08]

So we need to launch Operation Old Guy.

We need someone like Hodge at Brisbane (or Birchall), Sam Mitchell and West Coast, Jordan Lewis and the Dees.

Ideally, they don't have to be in the guts taking up valuable minutes (like greenwood) - they should be versatile.

Who could we target? Pendlebury, Selwood, Cotchin come to mind.

We really need an injection of leadership at the top level at minimal cost (trade-wise).

Travis Boak over all the players you mentioned. Give him 2/3 years. One definitely playing then he moves into player development/coaching. He has been a model of consistency and professionalism across his whole career.

 

[Chadwiko]

David Swallow

24

David Swallow

Age

31

Ht

186cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.1

5star

K

11.7

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.2

5star

D

18.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

7.3

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

4.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

D

19.4

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

5.0

5star

CL

4.4

5star

, a Suns co-captain, is only 29 years old and has a family connection to NMFC.

 

[Only Forwards]

David Swallow, a Suns co-captain, is only 29 years old and has a family connection to NMFC.

However that family connection now lives in Byron Bay no?

 

[amaz199]

David Swallow, a Suns co-captain, is only 29 years old and has a family connection to NMFC.

Brady Rawlings:

 

[Mordecai]

Travis Boak over all the players you mentioned. Give him 2/3 years. One definitely playing then he moves into player development/coaching. He has been a model of consistency and professionalism across his whole career.

Good call.

I went to to their game against Richmond last week - got some lovely seats. He nearly stole the game from them. His delivery inside 50 reminds me a bit of Boomer - he's able to chip it to a leading forward for them to run onto. He's a great player.

Also wouldn't mind someone out of the Sydney Swans program - Luke Parker would be one of them but I think he still attracts too much value on the trade table. Josh Kennedy? Probably too one dimensional and needs midfield minutes.

 

[RossHenshaw]

The thing that annoys me most about Larkey is the way he often chooses to play for free kicks rather than crash a contest with authority.

Also annoys the * out of me when he’s always pushing his hair away from his face ?!

 

[Horizons_00]

Brisbane went out and got Hodge, Melbourne got Lewis.
The most successful club of recent times has been Richmond. I struggle to think of anyone from there beside Cotchin which would send this place into turmoil.
Leaders have to lead by example and they are hard to come by.

Very good point! Great post.

It’s what a lot of successful teams did when they’re players are young and like sponges

It’s no wonder no one is developing into a leader because there isn’t anyone to follow on and off the field.

 

[Devington]

Last night I dreamt that I was interviewing Noble and he went out of his way to talk up LDU's leadership and ability to dance.

If that's not a sign I don't know what is.

 

[Marstermind]

Pagan once said of his young captain Carey, after he pulled his team over the line in an epic against Essendon in 1993, "Leaders aren't born, they emerge."

It's been a long time since a real leader emerged at our club. In strict terms of captaincy, since Carey, Stevo was more of a 'follow me' leader. Simmo was probably the closest we had. We all love Boomer, but captaincy wasn't his bag. Swallow was more in the Stevo mould whilst Jack has been disappointing. I thought he would rise to the captaincy but his limitations as a player, and the limitations of the team got in the way. And whilst we'll change next year, the reality is that I have reservations about anyone on the current list.

For a club in our boat, it's really important and maybe the first plank we need to nail down. Take the JHF situation last week. Kudos for Goldy for addressing it, but he isn't the bloke best suited for that role. Can you imagine an 18yo prodigy treated Carey or Voss or Hodge or Kernahan like that? Goldy, by his level of experience, is an on-field leader but JHF fobbed him off. Maybe that speaks more of JHF than Goldy.

So what can be said of any organisation where those born with leadership potential never 'emerge'? Well, nothing good but people like me are literally unable to look in from outside the tent and judge what a culture is.

So going back to Pagan, we can't recruit young leaders if there isn't any model to follow. We could get an older, otherwise washed up Lewis-Mitchell-Hodge-Birchall type to help, but there aren't any born leaders. JHF seemed likely, but let's face it, as talented as he is, he hasn't shown any attribute of a true leader other than being a good player. So yeah, for me, a Josh Kennedy or Shannon Hurn

25

Shannon Hurn

Age

36

Ht

187cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

15.7

5star

HB

5.2

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

389.5

5star

D

16.1

4star

K

12.1

5star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.0

2star

MG

271.6

4star

D

19.0

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

7.4

5star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

, despite their best footy being well behind them, may be exactly what we need to demonstrate what leadership looks like.

 

[Mav]

Also annoys the **** out of me when he’s always pushing his hair away from his face ?!

Ha ha . I was just about to post this!!

What annoys me is how JZ has said a few times now how Noble has made the club a “safe place”

I don’t want a safe space, I want the guys scared shitless of losing games and their spot in the team. I want them to be scared of 5.00am sand dune runs or their team ripping their heads off for piss poor efforts.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

Larkey is the one that pisses me off the most.

Never stops whinging and moaning, arguing with teammates etc.*


*Reminds me of me of the last few days.

The thing that annoys me most about Larkey is the way he often chooses to play for free kicks rather than crash a contest with authority.

nah what annoys me most about larkey isn't larkey at all. it's that the coach throws him to the sharks week after week after week by leaving him minimum 2 on 1 but often 3 on 1 or 4 on 1 because of the dogshit forward structure and turgid ball movement that he coaches

tell ya what, if i was one of the best young KPFs in the league last year i'd be pissed at that situation too

he is quite literally the biggest victim of our truly awful structures and I'm genuinely staggered that there are people that cant see that and blame larkey himself tbh

lol and the ******* irony is the OP of this thread liking that post about crashing packs when he quite literally complained about larkey doing exactly that in a GDT a few weeks ago - it's a weird, completely irrational hatred stemming from a fundamental lack of understanding of what it's like to be playing as a KPF in this system