Opinion Why are the interstate teams so bad? How do we fix them?

[Cuzz09]

Only 3 Vic teams have won a flag since West Coast did in 2018

So the other 7 Vic sides have done just as poorly as the 8 non Vic sides.

If you base it on Premierships only.

So really weight of numbers just gets Vic sides up there

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[Elmer_Judd]

2 premierships in 17 years isn't a massive statistical out lier.

I don't see how can argue against it.

Adelaide had their golden chance in 2017 and blew it because of a half time meltdown between Tex Walker and Jake Lever.
Nothing to do with so called Vic Bias or Advantage.

 

[blue harvest]

You don't support clubs to watch them almost win flags, then have 10 Vic clubs poach your players while your rival gets access to free agents.

You really think the AFL haven't been investigating ways for interstate clubs to keep and attract players?

The whole Vic investigation thing back in 2007 was a beat up, there are constant investigations going on into why teams aren't going well, the Vic one got more media due to some parochial types making some noise.

 

[TheBigHorne]

Once interstate clubs started benefiting off it they changed the rules to help the Melbourne team. Port were lucky we got. lachie Jones as a first rounder before they changed the rules

Source on this part specifically? You do realise there have been multiple victorian academies players since that have/will be selected unmatched to the club they're tied to. On top of this the Northern teams still have the old rules applied to their Northern Academy.



Maybe Sydney needed more academy players out there so they don't capitulate within the first quarter against Geelong.

 

[Goosecat]

This thing goes back and forth with so many different elements that will never find common ground between all supporters.
Without going into every one of the numerous different scenarios, advantages, disadvantages I will single out the one "area" personally that every PLAYER I have spoken to brings up themselves. Family, Preparation, Recovery.

Over the entire journey of not just a game, but an entire career over the years; The difference between being in your own house, your own bed with your own family before almost every game over the journey and NOT, is undeniable. It's both a physical and mental component in recovery, preparation and support at each game, each season and during each career. Aside from all the medico acknowledged extra burdens that exist regarding continual travel and recovery/preparation; The players themselves know the advantages to being in your own house, your own bed, with your own family and support each and every week and game.

The reality is, the Vic sides simply have a massive innate advantage and the players themselves know it. There is simply no way ATM to counter that reality with so many Vic sides all playing even bullshit "away" games between themselves whilst sleeping in their beds, in their houses and with their families.
It's a massive difference, the single biggest difference players themselves acknowledge and I don't see an answer for it.

 

[Mr Cheese]

I think they should have two sets of draft positions: 1-8 always go to non-vic sides and 9-18 to Vic sides (instead of PP's North could be let into the non-Vic part of the draft).

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[LoungeLizard]

I think they should have two sets of draft positions: 1-8 always go to non-vic sides and 9-18 to Vic sides (instead of PP's North could be let into the non-Vic part of the draft).

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What they should do is have 2 different comps and you can choose 1 or the other.

 

[Mr Cheese]

This thing goes back and forth with so many different elements that will never find common ground between all supporters.
Without going into every one of the numerous different scenarios, advantages, disadvantages I will single out the one "area" personally that every PLAYER I have spoken to brings up themselves. Family, Preparation, Recovery.

Over the entire journey of not just a game, but an entire career over the years. The difference between being in your own house, your own bed with your own family before almost every game over the journey and NOT, is undeniable. It's both a physical and mental component in recovery, preparation and support at each game, each season and during each career. Aside from all the medico acknowledged extra burdens that exist regarding continual travel and recovery/preparation. The players themselves know the advantages to being in your own house, your own bed, with your own family and support each and every week and game.

The reality is, the Vic sides simply have a massive innate advantage and the players themselves know it. There is simply no way ATM to counter that reality with so many Vic sides all playing even bullshit "away" games between themselves whilst sleeping in their beds, in their houses and with their families.
It's a massive difference, the single biggest difference players themselves acknowledge and I don't see an answer for it.

Great post. Also I think this is the reason that Mundy and Pav should be recognised as playing about 500 games, rather than the mid to high 300's.

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[Mr Cheese]

What they should do is have 2 different comps and you can choose 1 or the other.

No offense mate, but that sounds like a load of WAFL.



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[LoungeLizard]

No offense mate, but that sounds like a load of WAFL.

View attachment 1517719

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Most on here seem to think there are or they want different rules to suit their club, why not, we could just let the non-Vics form an admin then 1 admin controls 1 league, the AFL controls the other, then each club chooses the league they want to be part of, that should make all the supporters happy don't you think?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Most on here seem to think there are or they want different rules to suit their club, why not, we could just let the non-Vics form an admin then 1 admin controls 1 league, the AFL controls the other, then each club chooses the league they want to be part of, that should make all the supporters happy don't you think?

I guess you could do that - add a Tassie team and a 3rd WA or QLD team and have two leagues. The Grand Final between the winners of either league, alternate the Granny between Vic and home of the winning interstate steam.

Solves most of the main gripes. Draft would be a problem, maybe tell the kids you can only move between leagues after 10 years. Geelong would still be a crazy strong team full of old Victorian players then.

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[Cuzz09]

10 Vic Sides

10 non Vic Sides

Bring in Tassie and NT.

Or get rid of 2 Vic sides so it's 8 v 8

Get rid of NM and StK

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[Mr Cheese]

10 Vic Sides

10 non Vic Sides

Bring in Tassie and NT.

Or get rid of 2 Vic sides so it's 8 v 8

Get rid of NM and StK

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Got to disgaree on StK and NM. As a Freo fan misery loves company and I'd miss them.

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[LoungeLizard]

I guess you could do that - add a Tassie team and a 3rd WA or QLD team and have two leagues. The Grand Final between the winners of either league, alternate the Granny between Vic and home of the winning interstate steam.

Solves most of the main gripes. Draft would be a problem, maybe tell the kids you can only move between leagues after 10 years. Geelong would still be a crazy strong team full of old Victorian players then.

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No, no grand final between leagues, that will just keep the sooks sooking, 2 different leagues, each league can add whoever they want if that team chooses that league.
Poaching players is permitted.

 

[Mr Cheese]

No, no grand final between leagues, that will just keep the sooks sooking, 2 different leagues, each team can add whoever they want if that team chooses that league.
Poaching players is permitted.

Hard line separatist I see. This would be like the NFL & USFL, Clive Palmer and Twiggy could probably bankroll the Allies and Visy & Co. would be the money boys for the VFL. Almost worth it for the carnage.

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[Cuzz09]

Go back to 16 teams.

Have a reserves side for every side in the same comp.

Cant play senior til you're 20.

Weed out the meh





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[LoungeLizard]

Hard line separatist I see. This would be like the NFL & USFL, Clive Palmer and Twiggy could probably bankroll the Allies and Visy & Co. would be the money boys for the VFL. Almost worth it for the carnage.

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Well there are many in here who have voiced they aren't happy with the rules at the moment, I just thought it might give some a chance to think about getting of their arses and do something about it, instead of just crying all the time.

Go to the clubs and demand change.

Instead of just waiting for the Vics to do something and then cry about what they do, do something for yourselves for a change.

 

[tonygeeks]

Haven’t bothered to read through this thread again but I’m guessing the Vicco fans are going with some variation of either

Be better

Or

Nothing to see here

 

[LoungeLizard]

Haven’t bothered to read through this thread again but I’m guessing the Vicco fans are going with some variation of either

Be better

Or

Nothing to see here

You only have an opinion on one side I see?

 

[Goosecat]

This thing goes back and forth with so many different elements that will never find common ground between all supporters.
Without going into every one of the numerous different scenarios, advantages, disadvantages I will single out the one "area" personally that every PLAYER I have spoken to brings up themselves. Family, Preparation, Recovery.

Over the entire journey of not just a game, but an entire career over the years; The difference between being in your own house, your own bed with your own family before almost every game over the journey and NOT, is undeniable. It's both a physical and mental component in recovery, preparation and support at each game, each season and during each career. Aside from all the medico acknowledged extra burdens that exist regarding continual travel and recovery/preparation; The players themselves know the advantages to being in your own house, your own bed, with your own family and support each and every week and game.

The reality is, the Vic sides simply have a massive innate advantage and the players themselves know it. There is simply no way ATM to counter that reality with so many Vic sides all playing even bullshit "away" games between themselves whilst sleeping in their beds, in their houses and with their families.
It's a massive difference, the single biggest difference players themselves acknowledge and I don't see an answer for it.

Though I haven't gone through all the scenarios I do wonder if this genuine massive advantage could be addressed by actually changing the definition of "Away" games. The only way I see this as possibly being addressed is to acknowledge the root cause. We can't even up this advantage unless the "away" games between Vic clubs where everyone is actually in their own beds, in their own houses and with their own families and support are called for what they are. Everyone is home.

We know we already have a compromised draw each year; that's fact and due to uneven teams/rounds played etc. Different teams do not play other teams twice a year and the AFL "plays" with that allocation as it sees fit.
The draw is constructed to supposedly try and address some level of equalisation each season with the AFL "playing" equalisation god and asigning who plays who the most. Could the AFL actually address this single massive advantage, acknowledged by players themselves by actually calling all games between common state teams "Home" games? If a team is able to remain in their houses, in their beds, with their families and support, in their state; they are home!
That would then change the way "away" game totals and flights etc are allocated each draw. It would likely mean more flights for Vic sides to play interstate teams and less interstate games between the other interstate teams themselves accordingly.
The MCG and Vic grounds would make a stink of course, as it would see more big Vic teams flying out to genuine away games so it's probably never gonna happen but I don't know how to address this acknowledged massive advantage without somehow acknowledging the root reality.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Adding extra teams wont help the cause of those from outside Victoria whilst FA exists, all it will do is incease the pool of 26yo Vic talent that want to return home to bolster their clubs.

When are people going to recognise that the AFL's investment in GC and GWS was as much about increasing the feeder system for Vic clubs as it was about growing the game in those markets.
Those extra 80 list spots have provided more developed 26yo's than when there we're only 6 external clubs, for FA to work in this manner for a state with 10 teams it needs more players being developed outside or the available returning talent is too thin to make a significant difference long term.

The AFL stacked GC and GWS with high end draft picks, it was suggested that they'd win bags of flags but it never happened because they were plundered by Vic clubs before they could come of age.
If yestrerday taught us anything its that age is less of a barrier than young under developed bodies when finals heat is applied.

For a non Vic club to succeed under these terms they need to draft and develop enough elite talent to do it before the key players reach FA age. Id suggest Ports current list is amongst the best in the field of young talent but despite this are unable to stand up in finals against the mature Vic sides and as we're about to see, the Vic vultures are beginning to circle.

The league wont change, it is still the VFL that we chose to join albeit with a name change and we'll never convince Vic fans that we have genuine disadvantages so it leaves only one alternative, stop feeding them money.

 

[tonygeeks]

You only have an opinion on one side I see?

Is there a number that would get you to admit there is a problem

Next 5 ?

Next 10 ?

 

[TheBigHorne]

Haven’t bothered to read through this thread again but I’m guessing the Vicco fans are going with some variation of either

Be better

Or

Nothing to see here

Yes we are

 

[LoungeLizard]

Is there a number that would get you to admit there is a problem

Next 5 ?

Next 10 ?

Mate, I see football as a game, it wouldn't worry me if non-Vics won the next 10 and vise verse, I really don't care.

If some of you want to take football as serious as it sounds you do, that's up to you, but I and many others will keep calling you sooks, and by the looks of it, the AFL do also.

 

[Soggy2112]

I disagree that non Victorian teams are so much worse than Victorian. The 14 of 16 premierships stat is a bit misleading IMO, especially considering 3 clubs have won 11 of those.

PF/GFs made 2007-2022

1. Geelong - 12
2. Collingwood - 8
3. Hawthorn - 6
4. Sydney - 5
5. Western Bulldogs - 5
6. Richmond - 4
7. Port Adelaide - 4
8. West Coast - 3
9. St Kilda - 3
10. GWS - 3
11. North Melbourne - 3
12. Melbourne - 2
13. Adelaide - 2
14. Fremantle - 2
15. Brisbane - 2
16. Carlton - 0
17. Essendon - 0
18. Gold Coast - 0

This “ladder” shows Geelong and Collingwood are head and shoulders above the rest, but outside of that there’s a very even distribution of non Vic and Vic teams throughout it. There are so many sliding doors moments over the past 16 years that would have altered the premiership tally:

2020 - Richmond beat Port by a goal in the prelim, Port had beaten Geelong two weeks prior, arguably would have won the GF.
2016 - Bulldogs beat GWS by a goal in the prelim, would have been an all non-Vic GF.
2014 - Hawthorn beat Port by a goal in the prelim, would have been an all non-Vic GF.
2013 - Hawthorn beat Geelong by a goal in the prelim, Freo had beaten Geelong two weeks prior, arguably would have won the GF.

I don’t think what we’re seeing is that non Victorian sides are significantly worse than Victorian sides over this period. They have been poor on GF day (2-8), but they’re not “so bad” as the thread title suggests.