Traded Cooper Stephens - Traded to Hawthorn as part of Henry/Mitchell deal

[citizen-erased]

I think the league snookered themselves on Bowes. They set the bar low to try and help the Suns, are they going to turn around and change the rules because it turned out to be the cats?

more that its the premiers, but I also think because it's largely been exploited with the re-negotiation. That has to be scrapped. Contract as is should be the requirement for such a lop-sided pick trade.

Not fully across Port but didn't they want to trade F1 and F2? Later picks are less of an issue.

I just find it hard to believe that we would have traded a F2 if it was needed for the Bowes deal. Surely we would know by now what is required, unless we have totally messed it up.

I think you'll find a way to get it done.
An F2 is unders (I was prepared for the Dons to be putting ours plus a swap of 3rd/F3) to get it close given we'll finish low again next year

Port wanted an exemption to do both F1 and future's next year. Which the league doesn't approve of for some reason. Despite them being pretty young and active in the draft of late and it unlocking a pick 1 who is a local jet.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

more that its the premiers, but I also think because it's largely been exploited with the re-negotiation. That has to be scrapped. Contract as is should be the requirement for such a lop-sided pick trade.


I think you'll find a way to get it done.
An F2 is unders (I was prepared for the Dons to be putting ours plus a swap of 3rd/F3) to get it close given we'll finish low again next year

Port wanted an exemption to do both F1 and future's next year. Which the league doesn't approve of for some reason. Despite them being pretty young and active in the draft of late and it unlocking a pick 1 who is a local jet.

Not against a rule change on it per se but we would need to put some thought into it.

What are the chances that at $1.6m owed he can't find a home even with pick 7? Probably high. What are the chances the AFLPA give the ok to limitations on players renegotiating contracts in a way that will limit their movement options? Probably low.

Rather than just solving the current situation, which is pretty unprecedented, you need to change the whole system with a serious amount of thought going into it or you'll just create more problems

 

[Ricketz]

2-3 AFL games this year. Not been watching for him. Just seen when watching games.

He got a 3.03 for the 20m, which was 0.06 seconds outside of the top 10 in the 2019 combine. He topped the yo-yo, and is equal 6th all time for that test. Equal 10th in the 2km time trial, and equal 9th in the running vertical jump. All after breaking his leg and being out for most of that year.

And at 188cm, he is a physical beast. He probably looked slow in the games you saw because he is still adjusting to the game at the top level, but I expect he won't have problems with speed or endurance when he finds his feet.

 

[citizen-erased]

Not against a rule change on it per se but we would need to put some thought into it.

What are the chances that at $1.6m owed he can't find a home even with pick 7? Probably high. What are the chances the AFLPA give the ok to limitations on players renegotiating contracts in a way that will limit their movement options? Probably low.

Rather than just solving the current situation, which is pretty unprecedented, you need to change the whole system with a serious amount of thought going into it or you'll just create more problems

Dons would give him the 800k per year. it'd help our cap situation
Hawks too

Which was the intent of the rule change. So AFLPA and Bowes shouldn't have any issues there

Also not opposed to renegotiating, but the trade needs more scrutiny if that happens.

wrong thread for this though I just realised.

 

[catman2006]

If he wanted out quite happy to find him a new home 3 years in the system and disposal pretty average.

 

[Ricketz]

If he wanted out quite happy to find him a new home 3 years in the system and disposal pretty average.

He is an inside mid - his disposal seems on par with others in the role. He was actually quite a decent kick in juniors. We won't be trading him, he will be Patty Cripps but with a tank and a lot more speed in a few years time.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

If he wanted out quite happy to find him a new home 3 years in the system and disposal pretty average.

This notion that his disposal is average is blatantly wrong.

 

[catman2006]

He is an inside mid - his disposal seems on par with others in the role. He was actually quite a decent kick in juniors. We won't be trading him, he will be Patty Cripps but with a tank and a lot more speed in a few years time.

I watched his games closely same with Knevitt when he got the chance, I just don't think he will be the mid beast we were hoping for and given he doesn't look like breaking into the team for at least another year quite happy for him to choose a club.

 

[Ricketz]

I watched his games closely same with Knevitt when he got the chance, I just don't think he will be the mid beast we were hoping for and given he doesn't look like breaking into the team for at least another year quite happy for him to choose a club.

Come on, man - off his first five games?

R8 - 19 disposals at 79% efficiency, 3 intercepts and 4 clearances, from 77mins game time.

R10 - 16 disposals at 69% efficiency, 7 contested, 7 score involvements, 18 pressure acts, 2 clearances, 6 inside fifties, from 76mins game time.

R11 - 15 disposals at 67%, 7 contested, 6 clearances, 3 score involvements and a goal assist, from 76mins game time.

R12 - his worst game 9 disposals at 78%, 3 contested, 10 pressure acts, from 64mins game time.

R14 - 17 possessions at 65%, 5 contested, 2 intercepts, 2 clearances, 11 pressure acts, 5 tackles, from 73mins game time.

If you don't think that points towards a gun mid, I don't think you are a very good judge.

 

[catman2006]

Come on, man - off his first five games?

R8 - 19 disposals at 79% efficiency, 3 intercepts and 4 clearances, from 77mins game time.

R10 - 16 disposals at 69% efficiency, 7 contested, 7 score involvements, 18 pressure acts, 2 clearances, 6 inside fifties, from 76mins game time.

R11 - 15 disposals at 67%, 7 contested, 6 clearances, 3 score involvements and a goal assist, from 76mins game time.

R12 - his worst game 9 disposals at 78%, 3 contested, 10 pressure acts, from 64mins game time.

R14 - 17 possessions at 65%, 5 contested, 2 intercepts, 2 clearances, 11 pressure acts, 5 tackles, from 73mins game time.

If you don't think that points towards a gun mid, I don't think you are a very good judge.

His best game came against GWS where he was able to create from his in and under and find space, he needs to be able to dominate the VFL in which he hasn't done at least Horlin-smith and Constable were able to achieve that, if we do keep him he must have the preseason of his life as he will need to get ahead of Bowes, and Simpson.

 

[H00t]

He is an inside mid - his disposal seems on par with others in the role. He was actually quite a decent kick in juniors. We won't be trading him, he will be Patty Cripps but with a tank and a lot more speed in a few years time.

You don’t feel it’s wildly optimistic to say he will be better than the reigning Brownlow medalist?

Especially when at the same age Cripps was a lot better player?

Stephens hasn’t been setting the VFL alight either. Only one 30 disposal game this year.

 

[H00t]

He got a 3.03 for the 20m, which was 0.06 seconds outside of the top 10 in the 2019 combine. He topped the yo-yo, and is equal 6th all time for that test. Equal 10th in the 2km time trial, and equal 9th in the running vertical jump. All after breaking his leg and being out for most of that year.

And at 188cm, he is a physical beast. He probably looked slow in the games you saw because he is still adjusting to the game at the top level, but I expect he won't have problems with speed or endurance when he finds his feet.

I’ll keep a watch on him and hope he can convert those attributes to the field.

 

[Ricketz]

His best game came against GWS where he was able to create from his in and under and find space, he needs to be able to dominate the VFL in which he hasn't done at least Horlin-smith and Constable were able to achieve that, if we do keep him he must have the preseason of his life as he will need to get ahead of Bowes, and Simpson.

We will keep him. He is learning the trade the Geelong way. He doesn't need to dominate at VFL level, he needs to do what the coaches are telling him to do. VFL is where we teach our system. Our focus isn't to win the VFL comp - guys like Constable and Narkle dominate at VFL level.

 

[Ricketz]

You don’t feel it’s wildly optimistic to say he will be better than the reigning Brownlow medalist?

Especially when at the same age Cripps was a lot better player?

Stephens hasn’t been setting the VFL alight either. Only one 30 disposal game this year.

No, I didn't say better. But he is going to be that style of player, but with more speed and a better tank. Cripps is a monster and very talented.

 

[catman2006]

We will keep him. He is learning the trade the Geelong way. He doesn't need to dominate at VFL level, he needs to do what the coaches are telling him to do. VFL is where we teach our system. Our focus isn't to win the VFL comp - guys like Constable and Narkle dominate at VFL level.

No but generally those players will be very good no matter the role given, they will still have massive impact and while no doubt they didn't play Cooper as much in the VFL side going by the B&F voting, I think we will end up keeping him due to any offers being worth it as opposed to giving him 1 more year.

 

[H00t]

No, I didn't say better. But he is going to be that style of player, but with more speed and a better tank. Cripps is a monster and very talented.

It’s just a bit of a gripe of mine when people say someone will be player but with better attributes. Especially when that someone is already in the league and not close to as good.

Personally I think he will need to show his speed and tank more than trying to be a Cripps type.

Cripps only makes it work because he’s ridiculously strong and tall.

 

[Ricketz]

No but generally those players will be very good no matter the role given, they will still have massive impact and while no doubt they didn't play Cooper as much in the VFL side going by the B&F voting

There are plenty of examples where this isn't the case. But you clearly are just guessing about his performance in the VFL, Stephens had the third highest votes per game in the VFL side B&F vote this year.

Stop making up reasons to support your original dodgy assessment.

 

[catman2006]

There are plenty of examples where this isn't the case. But you clearly are just guessing about his performance in the VFL, Stephens had the third highest votes per game in the VFL side B&F vote this year.

Stop making up reasons to support your original dodgy assessment.

nah I watched half of them and he and Knevitt weren't great, but I can give Knevitt another full year to develop and Stephens has work to do

 

[supahoops]

Isn’t this guy just a worse Constable?

Had injuries sure, but not close to fit enough and pretty average.

Only has any value because cats are a top team. At a lower team he’d be playing and showing he isn’t up to it.

Isn’t this guy just a worse Constable?

Had injuries sure, but not close to fit enough and pretty average.

Only has any value because cats are a top team. At a lower team he’d be playing and showing he isn’t up to it.

Around the James Worpel mark I’d say.

 

[Ricketz]

nah I watched half of them and he and Knevitt weren't great, but I can give Knevitt another full year to develop and Stephens has work to do

You are just giving me the opportunity to prove that you either don't know about football, or you are lying about watching him play.

Of the nine VFL games he played he was rated best Geelong player twice, second best twice, third best once, and fourth best once. He only had three games where he was outside the top five Geelong players.

This in his second season in the VFL.

 

[Big_Birdy]

You are just giving me the opportunity to prove that you either don't know about football, or you are lying about watching him play.

Of the nine VFL games he played he was rated best Geelong player twice, second best twice, third best once, and fourth best once. He only had three games where he was outside the top five Geelong players.

He is 21 years old. I would have thought that was the minimum standard for an AFL level player in their third year, especially a mid.

 

[catman2006]

You are just giving me the opportunity to prove that you either don't know about football, or you are lying about watching him play.

Of the nine VFL games he played he was rated best Geelong player twice, second best twice, third best once, and fourth best once. He only had three games where he was outside the top five Geelong players.

No I dont rate performance by disposal I rate by their impact on the game as a whole and this ability to break the game open that's what you want from a midfielder and really didn't influence play like he should have being an AFL listed player in his 3rd year, now some will say our VFL term as a whole had a poor year but he didn't stamp himself and that's is what's required, wouldn't surprise we get Jaye Clark and Jaye goes past him in his 1st year

 

[Ricketz]

No I dont rate performance by disposal I rate by their impact on the game as a whole and this ability to break the game open that's what you want from a midfielder and really didn't influence play like he should have being an AFL listed player in his 3rd year, now some will say our VFL term as a whole had a poor year but he didn't stamp himself and that's is what's required, wouldn't surprise we get Jaye Clark and Jaye goes past him in his 1st year

Not disposals, player rating.

There are always guys like you, they did it with Kolo, with Bews, with Parfitt, with Zuthrie, with Blicavs, with Close. It won't matter what evidence is placed before you, you just don't like the guy and won't until he proves you wrong in the most embarrassing way.

Fortunately the coaches are a much better judge than you are. We will keep him, he will have a breakout year either next year or the year after, and you will be left to swallow your sour grapes.

We are not trading him unless he asks to leave, and I see no evidence of that happening any time soon.

 

[Ricketz]

He is 21 years old. I would have thought that was the minimum standard for an AFL level player in their third year, especially a mid.

He had a season ending ankle injury in preseason last year.

 

[catman2006]

Not disposals, player rating.

There are always guys like you, they did it with Kolo, with Bews, with Parfitt, with Zuthrie, with Blicavs, with Close. It won't matter what evidence is placed before you, you just don't like the guy and won't until he proves you wrong in the most embarrassing way.

Fortunately the coaches are a much better judge than you are. We will keep him, he will have a breakout year either next year or the year after, and you will be left to swallow your sour grapes.

We are not trading him unless he asks to leave, and I see no evidence of that happening any time soon.

Actually the opposite I was really hoping he would make it but based on evidence he won't I have seen enough mids in my lifetime to see when a player won't make it, so we will see if he does stay and revisit this in a years time and see who is right.