Analysis 2023 - Best 22

[Jewelsbon]

Did someone say something?

No not really, just one posters reaction to another poster.

 

[Bandicoot]

You gotta learn to love the ignore button!
Keeps me sane....

Kinda!

I've got a couple on ignore and I love not having to read their pessimism.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Well this discussion has dried up…

I’d be interested in everyone’s answers to these questions (with example answers from this year in case the definitions are not clear):

1. Who from outside the 22 will cement a position next year? (Example from this year: Ryan Clarke

4

Ryan Clarke

Age

26

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.8

5star

K

9.1

4star

HB

9.7

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.2

2star

D

18.5

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.5

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

19.6

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

12.6

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.0

1star

)

2. Who from within the 22 will go from good to star? (Example from this year: The Chad)

3. Who within the 22 will find a new lease on life? (Example from this year: Reid)

4. Who from within the 22 will fall off a cliff / not see out the season? (Example from this year: Kennedy )

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Well this discussion has dried up…

I’d be interested in everyone’s answers to these questions (with example answers from this year in case the definitions are not clear):

1. Who from outside the 22 will cement a position next year? (Example from this year: Ryan Clarke)

2. Who from within the 22 will go from good to star? (Example from this year: The Chad)

3. Who within the 22 will find a new lease on life? (Example from this year: Reid)

4. Who from within the 22 will fall off a cliff / not see out the season? (Example from this year: Kennedy )

I’d go:

1. Sheather - I feel he might be a bolter.

2. Fox - I reckon he had an under appreciated season and will become recognised across the comp next year as a really solid and versatile back man.

3. Buddy - embracing being a bit player on a high half forward flank after struggling as the main man to begin with.

4. Ruck Jesus - I think his body will start to let him down (and I couldn’t bring myself to write down Ram…..)

 

[Kiama Chris]

Well this discussion has dried up…

I’d be interested in everyone’s answers to these questions (with example answers from this year in case the definitions are not clear):

1. Who from outside the 22 will cement a position next year? (Example from this year: Ryan Clarke)

2. Who from within the 22 will go from good to star? (Example from this year: The Chad)

3. Who within the 22 will find a new lease on life? (Example from this year: Reid)

4. Who from within the 22 will fall off a cliff / not see out the season? (Example from this year: Kennedy )

1) Harry makes a comeback. We need a lockdown small defender and he's still our best for now.
2) Logan.
3) Juzzy will get back to his 2021 form or better after shaking off his COVID.
4) Bud.

 

[Bloods86]

Well this discussion has dried up…

I’d be interested in everyone’s answers to these questions (with example answers from this year in case the definitions are not clear):

1. Who from outside the 22 will cement a position next year? (Example from this year: Ryan Clarke)

2. Who from within the 22 will go from good to star? (Example from this year: The Chad)

3. Who within the 22 will find a new lease on life? (Example from this year: Reid)

4. Who from within the 22 will fall off a cliff / not see out the season? (Example from this year: Kennedy )

1. Most likely is Campbell. He'll be given the most opportunities as sub (whatever that looks like) if he isn't in the 22, so most likely to cement a place. Coaches just need to figure out where they want him to play longer term. For me it's starting off half forward or a wing, then getting involved out of stoppages etc. He was a mid/fwd when drafted and I think we've got enough half backs for now. Cheat answer is Logan, since he wasn't in the 22 on GF day, surely he's picked most weeks next year. Hoping Cunners breaks back in, but stiff competition from Florent and Fox, it's their spots to lose now.

2. Ladhams. I wanted to say Fox, but I'll go left field (sorry, centre). I think we saw that Hickey might give up plenty of opportunities to Ladhams next year, and he was exceptional in a few games, hopefully he sorts his petulance out and takes off.

3. Got to be McInerney. Was important in a few games, arguably a match-winner vs the Roos. But down on form overall, after some great development in 20/21. Hopefully has a good pre season and kicks on.

4. Hickey looks most susceptible. Rampe and Bud are other candidates. Some players can have a resurgence even after it looks like they're on the decline (e.g. Grundy), but for others, the end comes quickly (e.g. Richards, Nick Smith, ROK).

 

[caesar88]

Well this discussion has dried up…

I’d be interested in everyone’s answers to these questions (with example answers from this year in case the definitions are not clear):

1. Who from outside the 22 will cement a position next year? (Example from this year: Ryan Clarke)

2. Who from within the 22 will go from good to star? (Example from this year: The Chad)

3. Who within the 22 will find a new lease on life? (Example from this year: Reid)

4. Who from within the 22 will fall off a cliff / not see out the season? (Example from this year: Kennedy )

1. Ladhams. I still think he is the best ruckman we have on our list based on his performances this year, he just needs more opportunities to show it. He didn't get those this year (both through a mixture of misfortune and misjudgment.)

2. Florent. Worth remembering that as good as he was in his half back role this year, he'd only been doing it for half a season. With another pre-season learning the ropes of it, he'll be even better and will start starring.

3. Wicks. I haven't given up on him. I think when he gets that ratio of focus and aggression right, he looks literally five times the player he is when that ratio is out of whack. I really do believe it will just click for him at some point.

4. Hickey. Still has his good games but just gets beaten too often now and is putting in too many of the kind of games that are reminiscent of Sinclair in 2020 (who I loved, but was undeniably the face of our ruck crisis at that time.)

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Well this discussion has dried up…

I’d be interested in everyone’s answers to these questions (with example answers from this year in case the definitions are not clear):

1. Who from outside the 22 will cement a position next year? (Example from this year: Ryan Clarke)

2. Who from within the 22 will go from good to star? (Example from this year: The Chad)

3. Who within the 22 will find a new lease on life? (Example from this year: Reid)

4. Who from within the 22 will fall off a cliff / not see out the season? (Example from this year: Kennedy )

1. Campbell. Will be the breakout player of the year. (Sheldrick to emerge & get quite a few games).

2. Florent. Has just learned a new role & will become one of the comp's absolute gun half-backs.

3. McI. Had a dud 2nd half of the year, but can only improve in line with the talent we know he has.

4. Buddy. Is borderline best XXII and any injury of consequence will make it tough to get back.

 

[mtooler]

Well this discussion has dried up…

I’d be interested in everyone’s answers to these questions (with example answers from this year in case the definitions are not clear):

1. Who from outside the 22 will cement a position next year? (Example from this year: Ryan Clarke)

2. Who from within the 22 will go from good to star? (Example from this year: The Chad)

3. Who within the 22 will find a new lease on life? (Example from this year: Reid)

4. Who from within the 22 will fall off a cliff / not see out the season? (Example from this year: Kennedy )

1. Ladhams, Campbell and Sheldrick to force their ways in.

2. Blakey.

3. Paddy.

4. Buddy.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

1. Ladhams, Campbell and Sheldrick to force their ways in.

2. Blakey.

3. Paddy.

4. Buddy.

I think you are right on Blakey.

Who comes out for Campbell and Sheldrick do you think (I presume it it is Hickey out for Ladhams)?

 

[Nuggetz]

Well this discussion has dried up…

I’d be interested in everyone’s answers to these questions (with example answers from this year in case the definitions are not clear):

1. Who from outside the 22 will cement a position next year? (Example from this year: Ryan Clarke)

2. Who from within the 22 will go from good to star? (Example from this year: The Chad)

3. Who within the 22 will find a new lease on life? (Example from this year: Reid)

4. Who from within the 22 will fall off a cliff / not see out the season? (Example from this year: Kennedy )

This will be fun to look back

1. Braedan Campbell - IMO has the most upside out of any player in our team, unique combination of skill & athleticism. Another year to develop the tank & potentially have a more offensive role. Also like Amartey.

2. Jmac - think he had a very average year but hopefully another pre-season learning his role & developing physically will allow him to have more impact on the game. See him as similar to Isaac Smith.

3. This is difficult but I'm going with Logan Mcdonald. I'm assuming Buddy will play fewer games & have a less pronounced role, allowing for Mcdonald to be more of a focal point of our attack. Also another one with off-season in the gym helping him improve with his aerobic capacity.

4. Buddy, too many signs indicating his body is declining rapidly. He didn't really produce consecutive performances where his body looked mobile or providing the same physicality/zip. Reid also a contender due to his injury history.

 

[mtooler]

I think you are right on Blakey.

Who comes out for Campbell and Sheldrick do you think (I presume it it is Hickey out for Ladhams)?

Clarke and Stephens/Fox.

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

Well this discussion has dried up…

I’d be interested in everyone’s answers to these questions (with example answers from this year in case the definitions are not clear):

1. Who from outside the 22 will cement a position next year? (Example from this year: Ryan Clarke)

2. Who from within the 22 will go from good to star? (Example from this year: The Chad)

3. Who within the 22 will find a new lease on life? (Example from this year: Reid)

4. Who from within the 22 will fall off a cliff / not see out the season? (Example from this year: Kennedy )

1. Gus - We need a 5th mid and he looked good when healthy in both leagues. Easy choice imo. Left field pick has to be HHK tho. Edit: Oh and Ladhams, he's already locked into the ruck spot in my head so I forgot to even consider him for this category

2. Rowy - Again, easy choice. He killed it in his last 8 or so games, outperforming everyone not named Callum Mills. Didn't exactly show up in the grand final but who did. A full season of that form should get people noticing, even if it's not at the level he'd deserve.

3. Rampe - Kinda hard because nearly everyone is young and we just made a grand final. I'll go with the Great Dane. Bit of a rocky 2022 but he should bounce back next year, especially if Horse lessens his responsibility.

4. Hickey - Jesus only rose for 3 days, and Ruck Jesus will only rise for 2 seasons. We wouldn't have recruited Ladhams if we expected him to play a 2nd year of VFL behind Hick. Also I think Reid is a prime candidate for this pick, too much young talent in his position. Buddy maybe as well but Horse will trot him out there for the full season even if he falls off

 

[caesar88]

Clarke and Stephens/Fox.

Reported.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I like everyone’s answers. It is fun to see how different people view things.

I think what is most exciting part is that there are about 17 different players listed who will improve (enter the 22, become a star or find a new lease on life) while only a couple of different players who will drop off.

I appreciate there is no more optimistic time than pre-season, but I doubt we would have had so many different views on who would improve if we did this a few years back, and I reckon we would have been having a few more debates about who was going to drop off.

Exciting times.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Reported.

Sometimes I feel a report isn’t strong enough.

On this occasion, I think it warrants a trip straight to the tribunal for sentencing.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Well this discussion has dried up…

I’d be interested in everyone’s answers to these questions (with example answers from this year in case the definitions are not clear):

1. Who from outside the 22 will cement a position next year? (Example from this year: Ryan Clarke)

2. Who from within the 22 will go from good to star? (Example from this year: The Chad)

3. Who within the 22 will find a new lease on life? (Example from this year: Reid)

4. Who from within the 22 will fall off a cliff / not see out the season? (Example from this year: Kennedy )

1. Sheldrick. Injury interrupted debut season. Adds aggression, smarts, speed off the mark to our average midfield. Can also play forward and create as well apply pressure and defend. Other - Campbell but only if better deployed.

2. Blakey was good but can develop into a bona fide star. McInerney with a good pre season can help give the midfield rotation a different look.

3. Lloyd. Can be used more cleverly inc wing.

4. Unless properly managed, Bud. Rampe is halfway down the cliff already. Parker as a full time mid. Others - Ruck Jesus (injury)

Players I expect to just be fringe at best - Reid, Clarke, Amartey, Roberts, Francis, Wicksand Warner jnr

Others I do not expect to see unless we have to reach into the mid 30s of our list if we have a horrendous injury run - Melican (ridiculous the one time Horse fave was given a long contract), Gould, Cunningham, Rankin, Big Mac, Sheather.

 

[Mathelios]

There has been some talk of moving from having a medi-sub to just having five on the bench, essentially making it a best 23 scenario. If this change were to be made, do you think it would be more likely that we would pick an additional ruck on the bench (essentially playing Hickey and Ladhams) and if so what would that mean for Reid's position in the team? Alternatively, do you think we would look to use that fifth bench spot in a different way? Interesting to see what clubs will look to do if in fact this change does come into play.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

There has been some talk of moving from having a medi-sub to just having five on the bench, essentially making it a best 23 scenario. If this change were to be made, do you think it would be more likely that we would pick an additional ruck on the bench (essentially playing Hickey and Ladhams) and if so what would that mean for Reid's position in the team? Alternatively, do you think we would look to use that fifth bench spot in a different way? Interesting to see what clubs will look to do if in fact this change does come into play.

interesting post.

I like the idea of Hickey and Ladhams operating in tandem from the bench. Reid should have little role beyond depth in 2023. Has a long term history of letting the side down via injury, disappearing, inaccurate kicking etc.

 

[Bloods86]

There has been some talk of moving from having a medi-sub to just having five on the bench, essentially making it a best 23 scenario. If this change were to be made, do you think it would be more likely that we would pick an additional ruck on the bench (essentially playing Hickey and Ladhams) and if so what would that mean for Reid's position in the team? Alternatively, do you think we would look to use that fifth bench spot in a different way? Interesting to see what clubs will look to do if in fact this change does come into play.

I don't see a huge difference from the way we currently pick subs. Essentially, we usually pick a small as sub (e.g. Campbell, Cunningham). This means we see them as being able to fill for any injuries the best (along with shuffling the usual 7 ruck/KPP). We essentially rule out being able to replace a tall with that 23rd player already. So I think we'd just go with a small as the 23rd player. I.e. whoever the sub would have been.

It would also depend on whether interchange caps are changing. There's not a lot of point having an extra tall in the team if you're not able to make more changes, since you probably won't want the extra tall on the field at any point, because there's a bunch of smalls that need the break.

Maybe we change things up, but if a small goes down, you're then stuck with 3 smalls (and a tall) on the bench, a situation we try and avoid currently by having a small as the sub.

It may give someone like Gould (or in future, Hall Kahan etc) who can operate tall and small, a few more opportunities though. Maybe someone like Amartey too since he can play one of two positions while we rest the ruck or Buddy/Reid/Logan, but then you have the same risk of losing a small and being a bit tall.

 

[Kiama Chris]

There has been some talk of moving from having a medi-sub to just having five on the bench, essentially making it a best 23 scenario. If this change were to be made, do you think it would be more likely that we would pick an additional ruck on the bench (essentially playing Hickey and Ladhams) and if so what would that mean for Reid's position in the team? Alternatively, do you think we would look to use that fifth bench spot in a different way? Interesting to see what clubs will look to do if in fact this change does come into play.

Personally I hope they don't do it (go to 5 on the bench) unless they maintain a concussion sub separately. The whole point was to get a concussed player off the field without penalizing a team. I have no problem if there are 2 or even 3 concussion subs but NOT for any other reason. If they suffer another injury so be it.

 

[Bloods86]

Personally I hope they don't do it (go to 5 on the bench) unless they maintain a concussion sub separately. The whole point was to get a concussed player off the field without penalizing a team. I have no problem if there are 2 or even 3 concussion subs but NOT for any other reason. If they suffer another injury so be it.

I think the logic would be is that 4 fit players on the bench is acceptable, in order to not jeopardise the health of the rest of the team (i.e. having to play longer minutes because there's less rotation). Obviously there can be multiple injuries, but 5 on the bench would be seen as a best effort to meet a reasonable level of rotation even in case of an injury/injuries.

The tactical sub idea doesn't make sense to me (to replace a medical sub). You're giving the team the opportunity to make a tactical sub, then cop an injury, and while the staff took the risk, the players have to deal with the impacts. Maybe you could have the sub as an injury replacement purely up to 3qtr time, then allow tactical use from then on. This would mean that the team has had full rotations for 3/4 of the game and could be an acceptable compromise.

 

[Mathelios]

Personally I hope they don't do it (go to 5 on the bench) unless they maintain a concussion sub separately. The whole point was to get a concussed player off the field without penalizing a team. I have no problem if there are 2 or even 3 concussion subs but NOT for any other reason. If they suffer another injury so be it.

Yeah i think it would be better if they changed the sub to only being able to come on for a concussed player, with the determination of whether a player can come back on from a concussion standpoint made by an independent specialist (not sure if that is currently the case). It seems like teams were using the sub disingenuously last season, with the aim of getting a fresh player out on the park. Most of the players getting subbed off with "soft tissue injuries" seemed to be fit enough to play the next week in a lot of cases. Case in point Mason Cox in the prelim, was he actually injured or did they just sub him because he wasn't having an impact and so they could get a fresh like for like player (Krueger) onto the field.

 

[Millky95]

4 bench
1 medi sub
Unlimited interchange

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

There has been some talk of moving from having a medi-sub to just having five on the bench, essentially making it a best 23 scenario. If this change were to be made, do you think it would be more likely that we would pick an additional ruck on the bench (essentially playing Hickey and Ladhams) and if so what would that mean for Reid's position in the team? Alternatively, do you think we would look to use that fifth bench spot in a different way? Interesting to see what clubs will look to do if in fact this change does come into play.

I think it is a good change to go straight to a five man bench. I think what makes it work is that the interchange cap will still apply, so if a team suffers and injury early, they still have four players who can rotate through without too much impact. The change also gets rid of teams rorting the injury sub, which was clearly happening at times this year.

I think the change could open up the opportunity to have one key ruck and a couple of second rucks. We could potentially keep them fresher and have more outlets down the wings.

The other option is having another out and out mid. Geelong did really well by keeping their mids fresh through games (giving them two resta per quarter). I think other clubs will be looking at how they could achieve similar outcomes.

I get the thinking of two first rucks but I’m not sure it is the best idea. In essence you only have one on the field at a time and and have rucks that are probably over rested. That, or you have first rucks resting up forward but not being entirely effective. I didn’t find Hickey or Ladhams very appealing as forwards this year, so I reckon we only want one or them at a time.