Autopsy Autopsy. Just stop the game Gil. These fools are criminals.

[Woolly Mammoth]

It just serves to reinforce how bad we really are. As supporters, we’re reduced to trying to laugh at a team who have beaten us every single year since 2014.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Are you talking about Port? because there was an 86 point win in that run, and I'm not sure anyone is laughing as such, angry and hoping they finish as low as possible owing to the first round pick we will get off them

 

[Ball Dont Lie]

2 wins, 3 losses, and only one smashing. I think most of us would have been happy with that result 5 rounds in if we were asked about it before the season started. Two wins in a row though, some expectations mounted.

I'm happy with where we're at. Can see the players learnt an identifiable gameplan in the preseason and when things are in our favour it works. That alone is a step up on last year. Now we just have to keep giving blokes chances at senior level, let Clarko and his mates separate the wheat from the chaff without grinding any kids into dust, and have him get the B plan drilled into them for what to do when our A game aint working. We're 5 Games into his first season. Patience.

What was the identifiable game plan yesterday? Looked nothing like the way we played out of defence against Freo in round 2?

 

[Reagan Smash]

We were always going to get flogged by the really good teams this year.
Let’s hope it doesn’t happen against the likes of GC and Gws

 

[Nylex]

We were always going to get flogged by the really good teams this year.
Let’s hope it doesn’t happen against the likes of GC and Gws

We can’t accept this. We need a system and game day plans that makes us competitive against all teams. 10 goal plus losses even against the top teams are unacceptable

 

[shinboner spiggs]

I can’t believe how shit mckay was yesterday.

 

[The Anvil]

Positives: Stevo has his mojo back, Chom taking marks & kicking goals, Sheezel’s star keeps rising, Wil Phil slowly building week by week.
Negatives: Dwayne Russell and Kellie Underwood.

As bad as Russell and Underwood are, I am still grateful that we're not going BT and Richo.

 

[SammyRoo]

He’s a big guy who’s been off feet for a while. Is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks

 

[outwecome2play]

This is a very easy game to review. The turnovers particularly in the midfield killed us. The backing were pressing up but the Lions forwards were staying back resulting in easy goals.
We aren't good enough at the moment to stop this. We are trying to play aggressive football that is high risk.
I am surprised that posters on here blame the same whipping boys. This effort was on the whole playing group including the coaching group. Calls to trade out BMAC are just ridiculous and short sighted.
Curtis performed well so he should come in. Bergman also did well so he should come in.
Jye is out and Sheezel looked sore so he may miss.
Maybe it's worth trying JZ up forward and Bonar in the backing where he doesn't have to play on the number one or two forward.
Brisbane are a top 4 team and this showed.

 

[koshari]

This is a very easy game to review. The turnovers particularly in the midfield killed us. The backing were pressing up but the Lions forwards were staying back resulting in easy goals.
We aren't good enough at the moment to stop this. We are trying to play aggressive football that is high risk.
I am surprised that posters on here blame the same whipping boys. This effort was on the whole playing group including the coaching group. Calls to trade out BMAC are just ridiculous and short sighted.
Curtis performed well so he should come in. Bergman also did well so he should come in.
Jye is out and Sheezel looked sore so he may miss.
Maybe it's worth trying JZ up forward and Bonar in the backing where he doesn't have to play on the number one or two forward.
Brisbane are a top 4 team and this showed.

how many times did sheezel have to drop into the hole because logue, mckay and corrs oppo had unfettered runs up the fround whn the chose not to take the joe the goose route ( which they were spoiled for choice frankly ) shouldn't be a 4th gamers 19 year old job. Pleased though that a bloke who is such a nice mover isnt afraid to get his hands dirty, LDU similar traits.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

2 wins, 3 losses, and only one smashing. I think most of us would have been happy with that result 5 rounds in if we were asked about it before the season started. Two wins in a row though, some expectations mounted.

I'm happy with where we're at. Can see the players learnt an identifiable gameplan in the preseason and when things are in our favour it works. That alone is a step up on last year. Now we just have to keep giving blokes chances at senior level, let Clarko and his mates separate the wheat from the chaff without grinding any kids into dust, and have him get the B plan drilled into them for what to do when our A game aint working. We're 5 Games into his first season. Patience.

Pre Season I expected us to be 2 and 3 with quite comfortable wins over WC and Hawks and to be competitive in the other 3 games.

We are 2 and 3 so in line with expectations - the freo win the highlight of course.

However the manner of our last 3 losses have been horrible - beaten by Hawthorn was bad enough but for the next 2 games to be over as a contest half way through the third quarter shows the lack of fundamental competitiveness against top half teams.

And I don't see any identifiable viable and 'learnt' game plan - what I saw yesterday was 'our mids are better than yours and we'll roll the dice'. It of course went pear shaped as our mids weren't better then theirs and we had no method or inclination to adjust the plan when clearly it wasn't working. It was amateur hour to see the opposition have 3 spare blokes in their forward line qtr after qtr with NM players hands on hips in the middle of the ground looking at each other thinking '...I hope that's not my fault...'

Supporters will have patience - we have shown patience for a long while now - but when fellow bottom 6 teams like *, Aints, Crows all come out of the block and smash pre season expectations then supporters patience will get tested.

Now to see what sort of response we get at the selection table and on game day for next week's match.

 

[sutcliffe's hotel]

For the first time in yonks, we have an elite coaching panel so I am confident that they observed what we all witnessed.

My passionate footy fan brain just wanted it to be stopped, now. Man up! So I am left with trusting that our coaches were seeking something else that is part of the long game.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Psicosis]

Kane made the point this morning that we have conceded an enourmous amount of uncontested marks (particularly i50) the last 3 weeks (not just yesterday).

Not really sure if it was the case against Carlton, but it’s been a huge issue against Hawthorn and Brisbane.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Kane made the point this morning that we have conceded an enourmous amount of uncontested marks (particularly i50) the last 3 weeks (not just yesterday).

Not really sure if it was the case against Carlton, but it’s been a huge issue against Hawthorn and Brisbane.

Personally I see a bit of similarities in how the league is playing as a whole. Seems to be a lot of carefree forward running, betting on your players working the ball through the corridor and congestion, with the HBF and FB lines pushing up very high (almost to the centreline if the ball can get into your teams forward line). The problem is that higher skilled teams like Brissy can navigate the ball through the corridor more often than not and so their HBF and FB don't get burnt the other way as often.

I think we are trying to do the same thing with Sheezel, Tucker, Howe etc - all pushing up in numbers to support the movement of the ball through the corridor; however:

a) we don't have the forward structure to guarantee the ball isn't coming out at pace again
b) we don't have the fitness to push back hard if we do turn it over (and so players like Hipwood and Daniher just sit back in the F50 and let their men go)
c) our transition players except for Sheezel are all garbage men/inexperienced and so we are turning it over more often, allowing good teams to punish us on the rebound
d) this may be an unfamiliar game plan because it's their first year of playing it and as a result there's a lot of learning to do (as opposed to Noble where the game plan was "IDK LOL")

Rick will probably be along shortly to tell me all of this is wrong. But I have noticed other teams are doing the same thing and getting burned as well

 

[kool kangas]

Personally I see a bit of similarities in how the league is playing as a whole. Seems to be a lot of carefree forward running, betting on your players working the ball through the corridor and congestion, with the HBF and FB lines pushing up very high (almost to the centreline if the ball can get into your teams forward line). The problem is that higher skilled teams like Brissy can navigate the ball through the corridor more often than not and so their HBF and FB don't get burnt the other way as often.

I think we are trying to do the same thing with Sheezel, Tucker, Howe etc - all pushing up in numbers to support the movement of the ball through the corridor; however:

a) we don't have the forward structure to guarantee the ball isn't coming out at pace again
b) we don't have the fitness to push back hard if we do turn it over (and so players like Hipwood and Daniher just sit back in the F50 and let their men go)
c) our transition players except for Sheezel are all garbage men/inexperienced and so we are turning it over more often, allowing good teams to punish us on the rebound
d) this may be an unfamiliar game plan because it's their first year of playing it and as a result there's a lot of learning to do (as opposed to Noble where the game plan was "IDK LOL")

Rick will probably be along shortly to tell me all of this is wrong. But I have noticed other teams are doing the same thing and getting burned as well

This is the biggest issue that we have and have had for years. Lack of pressure coming out of the forward line. THIS IS THE NUMBER 1 FIX....

 

[Tiberius]

I actually didn't see any of the game, but after reading this thread, would it be fair to say we didn't play particularly well?

 

[Flawed Genius]

This is the biggest issue that we have and have had for years. Lack of pressure coming out of the forward line. THIS IS THE NUMBER 1 FIX....

Agreed kk but the issue is the players we have trying to play that role

Zurhaar puts on pressure like nobody's business, tick. But we are robbing the forward line of his presence so he can play midfield, not such a massive issue
Larkey doesn't really pressure a lot.
Comben is a maniac but does it so often and so much that he can't kick straight because he's so tired

Stephenson is improving but isn't really a pressure forward in the Cameron/Stengle/Papley mould as he is a hybrid mid/fwd

Turner is a diabolical footballer who is ostensibly in the team to play this exact role but can't get more than 5 touches in a game - you would forgive this if he was tackling and putting on pressure as well but to have 0 tackles in a game is criminal for someone playing his role

Key thing for me is that PC hasn't been putting on much pressure either. So we are left with the problem of do you drop one small forward (Turner) to bring in another (PC) who doesn't tackle/hasn't been tackling? (The answer is yes IMO btw).

Spicer is awful and hates contact
Mahony is slower than a wet week and is more a HFF/mid
Drury? Not ready and too small
Harvey? Not ready and more a mid/fwd than a small fwd. Also injured

I have no doubt we will keep playing the way we have been, playing with flair and taking the game on. I just think until we either get the requisite amount of time into players on the HBF that they feel comfortable making and executing bold decisions in transition OR our midfielders are able to hit targets in our F50 OR our forwards become experienced enough to stay out of each other's way and maintain structure OR we draft Nick Watson, we are likely to see more opposition players waltzing into an open goal from 30m out with their direct opponent not in shot

The team is IMO at least 50 games of continuity and experience away from being a really challenging opponent to play against. That's arguably why I'm not in favour of cutting the list too deep (although there are some obvious delisting candidates), because I think the more games Powell and Phillips and Sheezel and Tucker and Wardlaw and Scott and Stephenson and Simpkin and LDU etc can play together, the more it starts to look like a well choreographed ballet through the middle as opposed to a sloppy turnover festival

 

[Cool Kangas]

Well...here goes.

Here are Clarkson's finishes after he took over at Hawthorn in 2005.

View attachment 1661647

They finished 15th the year before, and he lifted them one spot the first year, three more the second, they made the finals in his third before winning their "early" flag in his fourth year.

I think it would be the height of optimism to regard our list as definitely potentially better than Hawthorn's actually ended up being. Here's their list at the end of 2004.

View attachment 1661650

Out of that 2008 flag team, only Mitchell (30 games), Mark Williams (12), Crawford (222), Bateman (29), Hodge (30), Croad (122), Campbell Brown (23), Ladson (6), Osborne (22), Sewell (0) and Campbell (17) were on the list at this time. So half of the flag team. Most of those guys were very green.

Hawthorn drafted Roughhead, Franklin and Lewis with three of the first seven picks in 2004, got Clinton Young in the Rookie Draft. 2005 they drafted Ellis and Burchall, and got Guerra (PSD) and Gilham (RD). They draft Rioli in 2007 along with Dew, and they traded for Renouf from Port.

If we assume that we might have half a flag team in there now, that means there's a long way to go. So I'd probably strap in for a tough season this year, especially as, like I said, the first season being a learning season is always going to be the hardest.

I reckon next year you'd really hope that we could test teams out on a regular basis and hopefully win maybe 4 or 5 more games than this year?

But like I said, don't expect miracles. There's pleasure to be found in little victories, but also there will be days like today.

I know it's hard as we've been doing this for years already. If there's any consolation, our list might be a bit further advanced than theirs was? We seem to have more 50 game players than they did. But that's assuming that those guys will be in any flag team. They only 50-100 gamers Hawthorn had on their list in 2005 were Lance Piacone, Danny Jacobs, Richard Vandenberg and Kris Barlow.

Okay that's enough for tonight!

Wow. Thank you! That was comprehensive. Well I guess we have to be patient. (And as you know that’s hard!!) Cheers!

 

[Cool Kangas]

I can’t believe how s**t mckay was yesterday.

I know right. It felt like he wasn’t there.

 

[kool kangas]

Agreed kk but the issue is the players we have trying to play that role

Zurhaar puts on pressure like nobody's business, tick. But we are robbing the forward line of his presence so he can play midfield, not such a massive issue
Larkey doesn't really pressure a lot.
Comben is a maniac but does it so often and so much that he can't kick straight because he's so tired

Stephenson is improving but isn't really a pressure forward in the Cameron/Stengle/Papley mould as he is a hybrid mid/fwd

Turner is a diabolical footballer who is ostensibly in the team to play this exact role but can't get more than 5 touches in a game - you would forgive this if he was tackling and putting on pressure as well but to have 0 tackles in a game is criminal for someone playing his role

Key thing for me is that PC hasn't been putting on much pressure either. So we are left with the problem of do you drop one small forward (Turner) to bring in another (PC) who doesn't tackle/hasn't been tackling? (The answer is yes IMO btw).

Spicer is awful and hates contact
Mahony is slower than a wet week and is more a HFF/mid
Drury? Not ready and too small
Harvey? Not ready and more a mid/fwd than a small fwd. Also injured

I have no doubt we will keep playing the way we have been, playing with flair and taking the game on. I just think until we either get the requisite amount of time into players on the HBF that they feel comfortable making and executing bold decisions in transition OR our midfielders are able to hit targets in our F50 OR our forwards become experienced enough to stay out of each other's way and maintain structure OR we draft Nick Watson, we are likely to see more opposition players waltzing into an open goal from 30m out with their direct opponent not in shot

The team is IMO at least 50 games of continuity and experience away from being a really challenging opponent to play against. That's arguably why I'm not in favour of cutting the list too deep (although there are some obvious delisting candidates), because I think the more games Powell and Phillips and Sheezel and Tucker and Wardlaw and Scott and Stephenson and Simpkin and LDU etc can play together, the more it starts to look like a well choreographed ballet through the middle as opposed to a sloppy turnover festival

Wouldn't mind looking at getting Sam Lowson either...l still think Lazzaro could play the small forward role until Curtis improves and doesn't expect to get games after 1 good display in the VFL or Drury gets up to scratch. Curtis needs to know pressure will always be on him to perform..

 

[Makeshift Park]

Key thing for me is that PC hasn't been putting on much pressure either. So we are left with the problem of do you drop one small forward (Turner) to bring in another (PC) who doesn't tackle/hasn't been tackling? (The answer is yes IMO btw).

If we want a makeshift solution for the rest of the season, I think his name is George Wardlaw.

 

[scottywiper]

Turner as a defensive forward fails because he offers nothing offensively. 7 goals in last 51 games.
His opponents can run off at will because they know he won't expose them at all the other way.
Which in turn makes them more dangerous because Turner is playing on them to shut them down...I think my brain just exploded.

 

[speedy]

We were always going to get flogged by the really good teams this year.
Let’s hope it doesn’t happen against the likes of GC and Gws

Why? We are not a young team and we have a coach.

Next day and I’m still totally disgusted and disillusioned by that performance. It’s the best team we have fielded for ages. It just confirms to me we have the worst list in the comp. We would be 0-5 without Sheezels brilliant start.

I feel like we have to nail 2 more drafts before we can go anywhere. And we won’t see the effects of that for 3 years.

Disgusted and disillusioned for 3+ years and counting.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

The team is IMO at least 50 games of continuity and experience away from being a really challenging opponent to play against. That's arguably why I'm not in favour of cutting the list too deep (although there are some obvious delisting candidates), because I think the more games Powell and Phillips and Sheezel and Tucker and Wardlaw and Scott and Stephenson and Simpkin and LDU etc can play together, the more it starts to look like a well choreographed ballet through the middle as opposed to a sloppy turnover festival

This is absolute truth. 50 games of continuity. Talk to the people in charge of the football department and they will not only agree with you, they will tell you they have been singing from this hymn book ever since they arrived. We are really just 5 games into a 50 game build. At least a quarter of the list won't survive. But those that do will be fighting to be part of a very good team. So do the maths - it's won't be this year and it won't be next year, but once 50 games rolls around in the early rounds of 2025, then we will keep opposition coaches awake at nights.

 

[Snojet]

I’m trying to get my head around how the tall opposition forwards are killing us. Bulldogs in the practice match, Carlton and Brisbane have scored so easily. My thought is that Clarkson is telling them that we have to persist with the one game plan, no matter what, and that when we continually turn the ball over it becomes a nightmare. I would have thought that against Brisbane’s two marshmallows talls we would have insisted on tough man on man defence. Instead we had a zone defence that broke down continually.
I have belief in Clarkson but I’m concerned that our young players can only take so many hammerings before their enthusiasm drops away.
On a totally separate matter: Would LMac get a game at many other clubs?