Autopsy Autopsy. Just stop the game Gil. These fools are criminals.

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ChopChopDigDig said:
We've got too many 'old blokes' being carried at the moment. Cunners, JZ, JMac, Turner, Howe, Corr are almost non negotiables at this stage, and I'm not sure why.
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Jack has been mostly ok this season and Turner has made some isolated contributions. The rest have been ordinary at best.

Bergman and Goater looked far better in my opinion, and even though each might have had the odd clanger these guys are the future and ought to be playing for experience.
 
ChopChopDigDig said:
Glad to see some posted bring reason to this thread. Many babies thrown out with the bathwater earlier in the thread.

Adding Sheeze and a new coach wasn't going to turn us around in one preseason. Further patience needed, and enjoying the odd win ain't bad either.

However, I'm hoping some changes will be made to give some kids a go ahead of some of our plodders. I'd much rather see Drury, Arch, Perez get a game if we're gonna get flogged anyway. Goater and Burgman needed a rest, but get them back in asap. Hell, I'd prefer to see Young, Mahoney, Laz and Spicer have a chance to show where they're at.

We've got too many 'old blokes' being carried at the moment. Cunners, JZ, JMac, Turner, Howe, Corr are almost non negotiables at this stage, and I'm not sure why.
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We need at least some seniority in the team. Otherwise we'd be like Hawtank.

JZ would be top 5 in the bnf, I'd still keep Cunners in because we still don't have anyone who can do what he does and I don't think he's that far off it. Shiels has been a good solid contributor too and Goldy is obviously a must.

Every other old player should probably be dropped. Initially I liked the co captaincy appointment but the gap between LMac's worst and his best is ******* horrific. Someone who can produce output that s**t shouldn't be borderline undroppable.

I just hope the coaches find a good balance here, because balance is often something we struggle with
 
Before every game this year I have asked for three things: plenty of effort, signs of a system and the youngsters to show something.

I missed the game but have watched the replay and I can only say I agree with the bloke who said the three Lions players up forward, by themselves, killed North. The system failed and there seemed to be no plan B.

It would have been interesting to be in the coaches box and what will be the messages during the week.
 

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DERRINALPHIL said:
Before every game this year I have asked for three things: plenty of effort, signs of a system and the youngsters to show something.

I missed the game but have watched the replay and I can only say I agree with the bloke who said the three Lions players up forward, by themselves, killed North. The system failed and there seemed to be no plan B.

It would have been interesting to be in the coaches box and what will be the messages during the week.
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I think the fact that there was “no plan b” was that Clarko wants to teach and have the players learn plan a first
 
rm3504 said:
The team had a shocker cos it’s a shocking team
Old, mostly 24yo and over and not a lot of youth to hang your hat on
In 50 games time half this team will be retired or close to and posters will be saying it’s another 50 games after the next 50 to get those next incoming players up to speed
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The same posters were saying the same things when Shaw started...we need to give him 50 games...and then when Noble started ...we need to give him 50 games....It just becomes a case of pushing out the timeline so far so that no one is accountable.

The point of bringing in potentially the best coaching group in the competition (at least in terms of experience) - is that we shouldn't need to wait 50 games. Clarkson himself said on appointment that the core of the group is here - strong and experienced defence and midfield. On top of this existing group we have been extremely lucky with Sheezal, Clarko has bought in his own experienced heads in Sheils and Howe and so far Logue and Tucker look best 22 as FA's.

We have a mature team now - more experience than most other teams in the competition. Including the fully fledged practise match agains the Dogs we have been flogged in 3 out of 6 games played - all 3 games done by half way through the 3rd qtr. And we haven't even played the real top end of the competition yet.

Sure a new coach brings in a new game plan - and that takes learning - but look at Saints and * - they have a new coach with new ways of playing - it hasn't taken them 50 games to learn it. This idea of waiting 50 games is a crock of s**t put forward by club apologists - the same posters who rated Shaw and Noble.

No one is expecting finals - in fact I only had us winning 6 games this year and I still expect we can achieve that - but these floggings where our opponents kick 150 points have to end. They sap at player confidence, hurt morale and become a self fulfilling cycle of incompetence and cries for ...it's all good...just have some patience...

I was as big a fan of bringing in Clarkson as anyone - and still am - but that s**t yesterday has to stop and we need to see a strong response at selection and on match day this week.
 
ChopChopDigDig said:
Glad to see some posted bring reason to this thread. Many babies thrown out with the bathwater earlier in the thread.

Adding Sheeze and a new coach wasn't going to turn us around in one preseason. Further patience needed, and enjoying the odd win ain't bad either.

However, I'm hoping some changes will be made to give some kids a go ahead of some of our plodders. I'd much rather see Drury, Arch, Perez get a game if we're gonna get flogged anyway. Goater and Burgman needed a rest, but get them back in asap. Hell, I'd prefer to see Young, Mahoney, Laz and Spicer have a chance to show where they're at.

We've got too many 'old blokes' being carried at the moment. Cunners, JZ, JMac, Turner, Howe, Corr are almost non negotiables at this stage, and I'm not sure why.
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Agree but we shouldn’t bring in players before they are ready

Of your list I’d keep Corr/lmac as long term options the others are effectively placeholders because that lower level isn’t quite there yet they’ll need a bit of exposure/go back to vfl/ come back a few times and that is perfectly ok
 
shimaburnsgrieg said:
The same posters were saying the same things when Shaw started...we need to give him 50 games...and then when Noble started ...we need to give him 50 games....It just becomes a case of pushing out the timeline so far so that no one is accountable.

The point of bringing in potentially the best coaching group in the competition (at least in terms of experience) - is that we shouldn't need to wait 50 games. Clarkson himself said on appointment that the core of the group is here - strong and experienced defence and midfield. On top of this existing group we have been extremely lucky with Sheezal, Clarko has bought in his own experienced heads in Sheils and Howe and so far Logue and Tucker look best 22 as FA's.

We have a mature team now - more experience than most other teams in the competition. Including the fully fledged practise match agains the Dogs we have been flogged in 3 out of 6 games played - all 3 games done by half way through the 3rd qtr. And we haven't even played the real top end of the competition yet.

Sure a new coach brings in a new game plan - and that takes learning - but look at Saints and * - they have a new coach with new ways of playing - it hasn't taken them 50 games to learn it. This idea of waiting 50 games is a crock of s**t put forward by club apologists - the same posters who rated Shaw and Noble.

No one is expecting finals - in fact I only had us winning 6 games this year and I still expect we can achieve that - but these floggings where our opponents kick 150 points have to end. They sap at player confidence, hurt morale and become a self fulfilling cycle of incompetence and cries for ...it's all good...just have some patience...

I was as big a fan of bringing in Clarkson as anyone - and still am - but that s**t yesterday has to stop and we need to see a strong response at selection and on match day this week.
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If you can’t see the differences between the start of Clarkos regime and his two predecessors you need to look harder .

Yesterday was an pig ugly result not getting away from that.

If you didn’t expect a few stinkers this year I think your expectations are way too high
 
Caracas said:
No, I’m talking about *, who’ve beaten us every single time since our legendary 2014 finals win.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
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We beat them twice in '15 and once in '16 but I take your point. 8 straight losses against💉is a pretty nauseating state of affairs.
 
the big lebowski said:
That defensive set up was bizarre.

And they kept it up for the whole game. At what point do you stand next to your man and defend him?

Other wise some small wins

- Comben career best 2 goals. Looking better and better.

- Phillips career best 19 touches. Loved his fight to get Curtis Taylor that goal in the last minute of the second qrt.

- sheezel - not great by foot like usual but fought through for another 30 plus touches

- sleevo back to being a footballer

Too many negatives to list unfortunately
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Agree with all your wins. Watching the game I was just wishing Comben had an extra 20-30 games in him and wanting that to pass as quickly as possible. Shows every sign of being a great foil and potentially the forward in a couple of years.

Phillips I rate pretty highly. I think every good player tends to have a good point of difference, Phillips is almost the opposite of that mantra. He is a reasonably quick first step or so, okay pace on the run without being electric... His point of difference is almost that he does a lot of different things very well. There's probably a spot for a player like that in your team if utilised well, especially if he can continue to build his running after disruption to be able to get to a stack of contests. He may not tea each contest apart right now but if he can get to a lot of them he strikes me as the kind of player that can punish you if ignored.
 
Cool Kangas said:
Yes but it’s games like this that make supporters like me think WTF? Legit we look so far off it. I don’t understand. I honestly thought these types of smashings would be a thing of the past under clarko.
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I have no idea why anyone would think that. Just this year alone:
Collingwood flogged PA by 71 (two weeks later they stole a win against a Sydney team that people rate)
Sydney torched Hawthorn by 80+
The week after that Melbourne destroyed that same Sydney team by 50
Adelaide torched Carlton

In between the Fremantle team we scraped past (in WA) to apart West Coast who we limped past.

Anyway, point is amongst this lot there are teams that would realistically say they wouldn't expect a belting at this stage of development. It still happens and IMO it is more likely under the current rules than ever (one of the reasons I'm against the constant opening up of play such as the stand on mark rule) - goals might be fun and all but so many recent rules just make beltings more common, even amongst evenly matched teams and especially with injuries.
 
scottywiper said:
Turner as a defensive forward fails because he offers nothing offensively. 7 goals in last 51 games.
His opponents can run off at will because they know he won't expose them at all the other way.
Which in turn makes them more dangerous because Turner is playing on them to shut them down...I think my brain just exploded.
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Turner was wide open on a flank inside 50 a couple of times and we burnt him big time by kicking long to a 2 on 1!
 
Ischenko said:
The whole team had a shocker. Until we have another pressure forward who can play four quarters then Turner will play. He’s had good games this year, go back three pages in his thread lol. Paul Curtis should be straight back in but he alone isn’t enough for pressure in our F50.

When we surpass Kayne I will be as happy as anyone else to see him go. Until then, I will defend him from over the top criticism. He wasn’t great, but hey we lost by 13 goals, not many players were.
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Turner is s**t - he needs to go. Notice how you are the only one saying different? No idea how we got another contract - he was pathetic last year as well. I am sick of rewarding footballers with no upside games, it has to stop.
 
Snojet said:
I’m trying to get my head around how the tall opposition forwards are killing us. Bulldogs in the practice match, Carlton and Brisbane have scored so easily. My thought is that Clarkson is telling them that we have to persist with the one game plan, no matter what, and that when we continually turn the ball over it becomes a nightmare. I would have thought that against Brisbane’s two marshmallows talls we would have insisted on tough man on man defence. Instead we had a zone defence that broke down continually.
I have belief in Clarkson but I’m concerned that our young players can only take so many hammerings before their enthusiasm drops away.
On a totally separate matter: Would LMac get a game at many other clubs?
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Personally, I think the reasons across games have been different.

  • Bulldogs practice match we got monstered by a superior midfield.
  • Carlton game we got monstered by the umpiring.
  • Brisbane game we turned it over (which was the biggest issue) and we got monstered in the midfield when we lost Simpkin and Philips in the 2nd.

Would LMac get a game at other clubs? Absolutely. Sure he was one of the main culprits for turning it over yesterday but he is still a quality player.
 

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guapo said:
No, LMac would struggle at most other clubs. Lots of desperation, no weapons, poor skill and even poorer footy nous.

We get flogged by mobile tall forwards because our key defenders aren’t capable defenders. They pay no respect to their opponent and allow ridiculous volumes of i50 uncontested marks. Sure, neither McKay or Logue played against Carlton, but yesterday was typical of what two above average mobile tall forwards will do to us every single time.

Lots of excitement in the off season trade thread about Logue coming to North. I got howled down for saying he wasn’t that good and wasn’t a $700k player. The first 5 rounds have not changed my opinion. He was the fourth ranked tall defender at Freo for a reason
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Logue was the best key position defender in terms of loss % in 1v1 contests in 2022.

Not sure where he is at this year, in this category, fair to say unlikely the best but he is an excellent defender.

Turnovers are killers because they catch teams out of position, this is the case in every sport. It's not realistic to play so defensive that your defenders live permanently in the undies of their named opposition forward unless you want to see the most dire, boring football known to mankind.

Worth keeping an eye on disposal efficiency as they are the chief butchers in the team delivering these turnovers. The top 5 this season to date have been Curtis, Zurhaar, Comben, Stephenson, and Howe. We actually have 11 players who are going at below 70% which is pretty revolting.

Just a note, Bergman has been incredible this year which his disposal efficiency, I found it surprising he didn't come in yesterday after being ill the previous week.
 
rm3504 said:
Hawks playing all the kids and clearing out the dead wood seems to be working for them
Is our list and drafting so bad we can’t do likewise?
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Curtis should be right back in next week. Goater and Bergman would both be on the shortlist to come in. Archer sounds like he's doing well again so potentially not too far away. Other than those four, three of which have had injury/health complaints recently, the only other youngling I can see coming in is the most obvious one in Wardlaw who still needs more conditioning.

We genuinely have a hell of a lot of meh on the list, across all demographics.
 
Unfortunately the issues are the same as past years where our midfield starts to get dominated and just doesn’t mount a fight back. As soon as this happens the turnovers occur, and even a defence with prime Scarlett, Jacovich and Shannon Watt wouldn’t be able to stop the incoming ball.

What was particularly puzzling was wtf was Clarko and co. Thinking about having our key defenders push up the ground so much and give their talls so much room. Every. *ing. Quarter. It was the same shizen.

Then you get the downhill skier brigade like Cameron and Zorko who start to come alive when it’s party time.

Shambles of a game. We gotta stop carrying Howe, he’s just not afl standard.

Don’t know what to make of Cunners so far, but hasn’t looked great for long stretches now which is going to be compounded with Simpkin going down.

Bring in the Warlord?
 
I've been anticipating bad losses but yesterday was very bad. After quarter time we weren't in the game
and I didn't notice any real change of game plan. This has me thinking that Clarkson is focusing on the players
rather than the results i.e., who do we delist at years end and who do we keep both in the short and long term.
Does he have the support of the Club to take this approach?

On form to-date, and with this approach, we will easily finish in the bottom 4.

I'm hoping that against lower ranked teams (bottom half of the ladder) we go in with a plan to win.
 
Limerick said:
I've been anticipating bad losses but yesterday was very bad. After quarter time we weren't in the game
and I didn't notice any real change of game plan. This has me thinking that Clarkson is focusing on the players
rather than the results i.e., who do we delist at years end and who do we keep both in the short and long term.
Does he have the support of the Club to take this approach?

On form to-date, and with this approach, we will easily finish in the bottom 4.

I'm hoping that against lower ranked teams (bottom half of the ladder) we go in with a plan to win.
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I saw it as teaching the game plan
 
Le Grille said:
I saw it as teaching the game plan
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He may be hamstrung in that he doesn't have the cattle to execute his plan. If this is the case we should see some real changes over the next few weeks.
 
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