Autopsy Autopsy vs Dogs

[zoomba23]

Just want to say I don't think I've ever seen us play this well and not look remotely like winning. It's almost impressive.

This particular aspect worries me. For our first win this year, CT missed a gimme and thus opened the door for West Coast to take the lead, and we required a soft ruck free to put the result beyond doubt. For our second win, the siren saved us from a draw or a loss by milliseconds after we were up by twenty points with like five minutes to go. Even at the Sydney game, seventeen points up reasonably deep into the last, you felt that the chance of a win vs a loss was about 50-50. Once Sheezel missed after that interception, the dread in my section far outweighed the hope. How can that be when you're seventeen points up? In that situation, the players should be looking forward. Attacking with abandon and doing everything they can to put the result beyond doubt. And the fans should be wildly cheering them on. But instead, dread settled over both the fans and the players, as if no one really believed we'd be able to win.

Even last year, we essentially only beat Richmond because Jake Aarts is a braindead campaigner. The common thread of these games; mental weakness and play that invites the opponent to steal the lead, instead of blokes taking the responsibility and saying 'I'm going to win this game for my club.'

I think the team's mental strength has been hugely damaged by 2020 and Nobles' tenure. There may well also be a fitness element to it given that we have about five players who can be relied on to run all day, but Hawthorn, who imo have a worse list than us and who many predicted for the spoon, don't have these mental blocks. They never reached the pits of despair that we did and they still know what it takes to win a game off their own initiative. We seem to have lost that initiative.

We're playing ok footy but I really really hope we get a win soon that is as emphatic as some of Hawthorn's wins this year. Cos Christ knows the lads need that belief implanted in their psyche

 

[czero]

This particular aspect worries me. For our first win this year, CT missed a gimme and thus opened the door for West Coast to take the lead, and we required a soft ruck free to put the result beyond doubt. For our second win, the siren saved us from a draw or a loss by milliseconds after we were up by twenty points with like five minutes to go. Even at the Sydney game, seventeen points up reasonably deep into the last, you felt that the chance of a win vs a loss was about 50-50. Once Sheezel missed after that interception, the dread in my section far outweighed the hope. How can that be when you're seventeen points up? In that situation, the players should be looking forward. Attacking with abandon and doing everything they can to put the result beyond doubt. And the fans should be wildly cheering them on. But instead, dread settled over both the fans and the players, as if no one really believed we'd be able to win.

Even last year, we essentially only beat Richmond because Jake Aarts is a braindead campaigner. The common thread of these games; mental weakness and play that invites the opponent to steal the lead, instead of blokes taking the responsibility and saying 'I'm going to win this game for my club.'

I think the team's mental strength has been hugely damaged by 2020 and Nobles' tenure. There may well also be a fitness element to it given that we have about five players who can be relied on to run all day, but Hawthorn, who imo have a worse list than us and who many predicted for the spoon, don't have these mental blocks. They never reached the pits of despair that we did and they still know what it takes to win a game off their own initiative. We seem to have lost that initiative.

We're playing ok footy but I really really hope we get a win soon that is as emphatic as some of Hawthorn's wins this year. Cos Christ knows the lads need that belief implanted in their psyche

We look like around a year behind them, without as good old players (outside of goldy). I think comming of such an era they had they were able to manage a nice rebound. The problem they will face is the same one we have had in the last 20 years - middle of the pack talent pool and middle of the pack results.

 

[King Corey]

This particular aspect worries me. For our first win this year, CT missed a gimme and thus opened the door for West Coast to take the lead, and we required a soft ruck free to put the result beyond doubt. For our second win, the siren saved us from a draw or a loss by milliseconds after we were up by twenty points with like five minutes to go. Even at the Sydney game, seventeen points up reasonably deep into the last, you felt that the chance of a win vs a loss was about 50-50. Once Sheezel missed after that interception, the dread in my section far outweighed the hope. How can that be when you're seventeen points up? In that situation, the players should be looking forward. Attacking with abandon and doing everything they can to put the result beyond doubt. And the fans should be wildly cheering them on. But instead, dread settled over both the fans and the players, as if no one really believed we'd be able to win.

Even last year, we essentially only beat Richmond because Jake Aarts is a braindead campaigner. The common thread of these games; mental weakness and play that invites the opponent to steal the lead, instead of blokes taking the responsibility and saying 'I'm going to win this game for my club.'

I think the team's mental strength has been hugely damaged by 2020 and Nobles' tenure. There may well also be a fitness element to it given that we have about five players who can be relied on to run all day, but Hawthorn, who imo have a worse list than us and who many predicted for the spoon, don't have these mental blocks. They never reached the pits of despair that we did and they still know what it takes to win a game off their own initiative. We seem to have lost that initiative.

We're playing ok footy but I really really hope we get a win soon that is as emphatic as some of Hawthorn's wins this year. Cos Christ knows the lads need that belief implanted in their psyche

Agree with all of that except the Noble bit. Think the self-defeating mindset was creeping in from 2016 and got nicely bedded down in 2020 with some appalling man management.

While history would suggest Noble wasn't good enough to turn it around, I don't think he really created it either.

 

[Psicosis]

Agree with all of that except the Noble bit. Think the self-defeating mindset was creeping in from 2016 and got nicely bedded down in 2020 with some appalling man management.

While history would suggest Noble wasn't good enough to turn it around, I don't think he really created it either.

Leaders of the club also need to put their hand up for the "losing culture". It's arguably the most key component.

I mean there is no greater example then the Ziebell out on the fulls a few weeks ago. It was as close to throwing a game as you'll see.

Jy not putting his hand up and taking it up to the Bulldogs midfield domination, for the younger guys to ride on the back of.

McDonald not taking responsibility for the multiple small-medium forwards that have run riot against us over the last month.

Thankfully our younger players do appear to have that "get on my back" mentality, so it will turn, just will take a bit longer.

 

[zoomba23]

Agree with all of that except the Noble bit. Think the self-defeating mindset was creeping in from 2016 and got nicely bedded down in 2020 with some appalling man management.

While history would suggest Noble wasn't good enough to turn it around, I don't think he really created it either.

That's fair enough, but if you're gonna go back to the times when we were getting ok results, you could well argue that the mentality was fragile in 2013 too. I mean what a ******* year that was.

I guess I'm just using our recent onfield shitness to explain the clear reduction in mental fortitude. At least back in 2016-2019 we were still capable of going on with it once a lead was established despite average ladder finishes. These days.... we haven't actually gone on with it in a game in nearly two years

 

[danj]

I know it’s been done to death but Brad Scott killed the Shinboner spirit, we still don’t have it back. Maybe our young blokes can find it again?

 

[amaz199]

This particular aspect worries me. For our first win this year, CT missed a gimme and thus opened the door for West Coast to take the lead, and we required a soft ruck free to put the result beyond doubt. For our second win, the siren saved us from a draw or a loss by milliseconds after we were up by twenty points with like five minutes to go. Even at the Sydney game, seventeen points up reasonably deep into the last, you felt that the chance of a win vs a loss was about 50-50. Once Sheezel missed after that interception, the dread in my section far outweighed the hope. How can that be when you're seventeen points up? In that situation, the players should be looking forward. Attacking with abandon and doing everything they can to put the result beyond doubt. And the fans should be wildly cheering them on. But instead, dread settled over both the fans and the players, as if no one really believed we'd be able to win.

Even last year, we essentially only beat Richmond because Jake Aarts is a braindead campaigner. The common thread of these games; mental weakness and play that invites the opponent to steal the lead, instead of blokes taking the responsibility and saying 'I'm going to win this game for my club.'

I think the team's mental strength has been hugely damaged by 2020 and Nobles' tenure. There may well also be a fitness element to it given that we have about five players who can be relied on to run all day, but Hawthorn, who imo have a worse list than us and who many predicted for the spoon, don't have these mental blocks. They never reached the pits of despair that we did and they still know what it takes to win a game off their own initiative. We seem to have lost that initiative.

We're playing ok footy but I really really hope we get a win soon that is as emphatic as some of Hawthorn's wins this year. Cos Christ knows the lads need that belief implanted in their psyche

I agree with some of this but the Eagles game was won with some huge efforts that included a great tackle from Turner on Ryan and a big tackle from Greenwood in the middle of the ground. Those two don't happen, we look in real trouble. Some crucial efforts were on display that day and we fought hard. Maybe even played above expectations a little bit.

The Freo game although looked like a capitulation if there was another second to pay deliberate, was another example of a game that looked very unlikely to be a competitive game, but ended up being a game of footy that we dominated for most of the day. That's seriously impressive for a team that could barely muster a whimper last year. Again, Freo expected to win that and we beat them on their home turf. I also think having a coach that can coach, rather than imbeciles at the wheel, helped with our first two victories.

The Sydney game looks dire in the sense we've supposedly become 'accustomed to losing' but when was the last time we looked at the young players going 'pwoarrr! We're gonna go places with this lot'? It's been AGES. Our young players are the leaders of this footy club. You heard it from Clarko himself. They are being given the keys to the next journey this footy club will be embarking on and I can tell you now it looks a lot more exciting than it did last year.

Regarding the negative stigma, it also doesn't help that the list management from 2015 onwards has been utterly horrendous. There just seemed to be no succession plan after the likes of Thommo, Hansen, Swallow, Wells, Boomer, Firrito, NDS, Petrie all either got delisted, retired or left. That's a huge chunk of the team's experience and spine out the door. When the club's fortunes rested on the shoulders of those that played good football to keep us in the finals hunt and all of a sudden they are not there, cracks will form and fast. Remember when Scott said some dumb s**t like 'if they were available, I would play them.' No s**t you'd play them because you spent 6 years butchering pick after pick of young players that were showing something but couldn't give two shits to persist and develop them. Stark contrast to Clarko and Ratts playing more youth when senior options have been available.

The mental part is an intriguing possibility but I don't think its mental. It's just that our senior players are limited footballers. It's why you saw JZ hit a few kicks out on the full. It might look mental, but most players nowadays can hit those kicks easily because they are built in a different era (have a look at the Dogs on the weekend and how they sliced us open at times). JZ is a bull with a kicking technique suited for gaining territory instead of hitting short passes consistently. Same with Lmac. Our senior players simply can't do the s**t we see from our young players because their development ceiling was simply not high enough. They are there just as a placeholder (the truth hurts) until we find another youngster that can play a more flexible role. We've always had footballers with some form of limitation (not quick enough, poor decision making and poor athleticism) and it's largely the reason why we either got belted or we looked 'switched on'. It's the biproduct of drafting average players (and recruiting discards from other clubs essentially) hoping we get somewhere and then throwing money at blokes that wouldn't come knowing we were not anywhere near playing finals consistently. It's list management gambling. We also had this unique ability to turn promising youngsters (that were good picks and great gets) into average 15 possession 'play a role' footballers. Soul-crushing. I can list so many names that showed so much promise in their first years but then we never really got them to go up a level (I feel like Lmac has suffered in this regard despite being a limited footballer).

Clarkson has said it multiple times himself that this is a five-year plan for a reason. We've just got a few names that cannot sustain a consistent level and it means we're stuck in this weird situation where the younger guys are doing the carrying.

On that 2020 onwards period (as a side note), sacking 11 blokes and then going deeper on the cuts wasn't done for getting high draft picks hoping we get somewhere. It was done because we ****ed up BADLY. But, we're finally healing from the absolute horrendous situation and it is looking pretty damn promising from focussing just on the players that have shown elite traits.

Chin up mate, it will turn. It's just been bloody difficult for too long, but it's going to change.

 

[danj]

I agree with some of this but the Eagles game was won with some huge efforts that included a great tackle from Turner on Ryan and a big tackle from Greenwood in the middle of the ground. Those two don't happen, we look in real trouble. Some crucial efforts were on display that day and we fought hard. Maybe even played above expectations a little bit.

The Freo game although looked like a capitulation if there was another second to pay deliberate, was another example of a game that looked very unlikely to be a competitive game, but ended up being a game of footy that we dominated for most of the day. That's seriously impressive for a team that could barely muster a whimper last year. Again, Freo expected to win that and we beat them on their home turf. I also think having a coach that can coach, rather than imbeciles at the wheel, helped with our first two victories.

The Sydney game looks dire in the sense we've supposedly become 'accustomed to losing' but when was the last time we looked at the young players going 'pwoarrr! We're gonna go places with this lot'? It's been AGES. Our young players are the leaders of this footy club. You heard it from Clarko himself. They are being given the keys to the next journey this footy club will be embarking on and I can tell you now it looks a lot more exciting than it did last year.

Regarding the negative stigma, it also doesn't help that the list management from 2015 onwards has been utterly horrendous. There just seemed to be no succession plan after the likes of Thommo, Hansen, Swallow, Wells, Boomer, Firrito, NDS, Petrie all either got delisted, retired or left. That's a huge chunk of the team's experience and spine out the door. When the club's fortunes rested on the shoulders of those that played good football to keep us in the finals hunt and all of a sudden they are not there, cracks will form and fast. Remember when Scott said some dumb s**t like 'if they were available, I would play them.' No s**t you'd play them because you spent 6 years butchering pick after pick of young players that were showing something but couldn't give two shits to persist and develop them. Stark contrast to Clarko and Ratts playing more youth when senior options have been available.

The mental part is an intriguing possibility but I don't think its mental. It's just that our senior players are limited footballers. It's why you saw JZ hit a few kicks out on the full. It might look mental, but most players nowadays can hit those kicks easily because they are built in a different era (have a look at the Dogs on the weekend and how they sliced us open at times). JZ is a bull with a kicking technique suited for gaining territory instead of hitting short passes consistently. Same with Lmac. Our senior players simply can't do the s**t we see from our young players because their development ceiling was simply not high enough. They are there just as a placeholder (the truth hurts) until we find another youngster that can play a more flexible role. We've always had footballers with some form of limitation (not quick enough, poor decision making and poor athleticism) and it's largely the reason why we either got belted or we looked 'switched on'. It's the biproduct of drafting average players (and recruiting discards from other clubs essentially) hoping we get somewhere and then throwing money at blokes that wouldn't come knowing we were not anywhere near playing finals consistently. It's list management gambling. We also had this unique ability to turn promising youngsters (that were good picks and great gets) into average 15 possession 'play a role' footballers. Soul-crushing. I can list so many names that showed so much promise in their first years but then we never really got them to go up a level (I feel like Lmac has suffered in this regard despite being a limited footballer).

Clarkson has said it multiple times himself that this is a five-year plan for a reason. We've just got a few names that cannot sustain a consistent level and it means we're stuck in this weird situation where the younger guys are doing the carrying.

On that 2020 onwards period (as a side note), sacking 11 blokes and then going deeper on the cuts wasn't done for getting high draft picks hoping we get somewhere. It was done because we ****ed up BADLY. But, we're finally healing from the absolute horrendous situation and it is looking pretty damn promising from focussing just on the players that have shown elite traits.

Chin up mate, it will turn. It's just been bloody difficult for too long, but it's going to change.

Man you nailed some key points there, should be required reading for anyone who wants to try and understand why we’re at where we are now particularly liked the term ‘soul crushing’ I’ve gotta say the last 3 years under BS were like that every week

 

[DarwinRoo]

FFS. We were one game out of the 8 in 2018, 2 years after we said goodbye to about 1200 games of senior experience.

There has been s**t decision after s**t decision made in the last 4 years, none of which have involved a bloke who hadn’t been at the club since mid 2019.

 

[zoomba23]

I agree with some of this but the Eagles game was won with some huge efforts that included a great tackle from Turner on Ryan and a big tackle from Greenwood in the middle of the ground. Those two don't happen, we look in real trouble. Some crucial efforts were on display that day and we fought hard. Maybe even played above expectations a little bit.

The Freo game although looked like a capitulation if there was another second to pay deliberate, was another example of a game that looked very unlikely to be a competitive game, but ended up being a game of footy that we dominated for most of the day. That's seriously impressive for a team that could barely muster a whimper last year. Again, Freo expected to win that and we beat them on their home turf. I also think having a coach that can coach, rather than imbeciles at the wheel, helped with our first two victories.

The Sydney game looks dire in the sense we've supposedly become 'accustomed to losing' but when was the last time we looked at the young players going 'pwoarrr! We're gonna go places with this lot'? It's been AGES. Our young players are the leaders of this footy club. You heard it from Clarko himself. They are being given the keys to the next journey this footy club will be embarking on and I can tell you now it looks a lot more exciting than it did last year.

Regarding the negative stigma, it also doesn't help that the list management from 2015 onwards has been utterly horrendous. There just seemed to be no succession plan after the likes of Thommo, Hansen, Swallow, Wells, Boomer, Firrito, NDS, Petrie all either got delisted, retired or left. That's a huge chunk of the team's experience and spine out the door. When the club's fortunes rested on the shoulders of those that played good football to keep us in the finals hunt and all of a sudden they are not there, cracks will form and fast. Remember when Scott said some dumb s**t like 'if they were available, I would play them.' No s**t you'd play them because you spent 6 years butchering pick after pick of young players that were showing something but couldn't give two shits to persist and develop them. Stark contrast to Clarko and Ratts playing more youth when senior options have been available.

The mental part is an intriguing possibility but I don't think its mental. It's just that our senior players are limited footballers. It's why you saw JZ hit a few kicks out on the full. It might look mental, but most players nowadays can hit those kicks easily because they are built in a different era (have a look at the Dogs on the weekend and how they sliced us open at times). JZ is a bull with a kicking technique suited for gaining territory instead of hitting short passes consistently. Same with Lmac. Our senior players simply can't do the s**t we see from our young players because their development ceiling was simply not high enough. They are there just as a placeholder (the truth hurts) until we find another youngster that can play a more flexible role. We've always had footballers with some form of limitation (not quick enough, poor decision making and poor athleticism) and it's largely the reason why we either got belted or we looked 'switched on'. It's the biproduct of drafting average players (and recruiting discards from other clubs essentially) hoping we get somewhere and then throwing money at blokes that wouldn't come knowing we were not anywhere near playing finals consistently. It's list management gambling. We also had this unique ability to turn promising youngsters (that were good picks and great gets) into average 15 possession 'play a role' footballers. Soul-crushing. I can list so many names that showed so much promise in their first years but then we never really got them to go up a level (I feel like Lmac has suffered in this regard despite being a limited footballer).

Clarkson has said it multiple times himself that this is a five-year plan for a reason. We've just got a few names that cannot sustain a consistent level and it means we're stuck in this weird situation where the younger guys are doing the carrying.

On that 2020 onwards period (as a side note), sacking 11 blokes and then going deeper on the cuts wasn't done for getting high draft picks hoping we get somewhere. It was done because we ****ed up BADLY. But, we're finally healing from the absolute horrendous situation and it is looking pretty damn promising from focussing just on the players that have shown elite traits.

Chin up mate, it will turn. It's just been bloody difficult for too long, but it's going to change.

Likewise, I agree with some of this. JZ basically cost us that Essendon game and I ******* hated him for it.
I don't know if that was due to inadequate skill, because JZ's actually hit some pretty nice kicks in his time in the backline, and I still firmly believe that the percentage of players in the league whose skills genuinely aren't up to it is ******* minute. Reckon other factors influence skill errors more; confidence, team system, concentration, whether the team is being smashed, fitness. Maybe JZ was buggered, but it was undoubtedly a poor display from a bloke who's supposed to be leading the team.

If we had, say, Collingwood's list, we'd make almost all their role players look ordinary. McCreery, Frampton, Hoskin Elliott, Elliott, Johnson, Noble. We'd be calling for their delisting. There's every chance that if Perez or Xerri or Bonar went to a team like Collingwood, they would thrive. We need to stop looking at players' performances in a vacuum and start looking at the 'why doesn't he look good' instead of the 'who doesn't look good.' Our development has been shithouse and not enough people criticise the club for that.

I'm also not great with the idea that these young blokes are supposed to be carrying the team towards success. We and the AFL media have tiptoed around how s**t this team has actually been recently. Not even University or early St Kilda or the expansion teams managed the streak we had last year. We have the only players since around 1950 to have a circa 12% win rate throughout their careers. The 'it will turn' mentality is less applicable to us because so many of our blokes invite the loss and struggle greatly to deal with the pressure purely because of the volume of losses. We need leaders in that 24-28 window who can have consistent output and know how success feels, and that's why I'd genuinely consider trading picks in the coming off-season for a seasoned player.

The main saving grace is that blokes have been re-signing left right and centre, and that clearly the mood around the club is upbeat. The VFL team is on track for finals. That's good. But until we get a game that we definitively win without needing external assistance from the opposition's stupidity or the umps or the siren, I'm gonna be pessimistic as * about the mental strength of these blokes when they get themselves into a winning situation.

 

[King Corey]

FFS. We were one game out of the 8 in 2018, 2 years after we said goodbye to about 1200 games of senior experience.

There has been s**t decision after s**t decision made in the last 4 years, none of which have involved a bloke who hadn’t been at the club since mid 2019.

Would agree that the list management decisions made post Joyce/Scott were worse than those made during their time.

While stating the 2017-18 recruiting strategy seemed to be all over the shop.

 

[ferball]

Would agree that the list management decisions made post Joyce/Scott were worse than those made during their time.

While stating the 2017-18 recruiting strategy seemed to be all over the shop.

Do you reckon?

 

[King Corey]

Do you reckon?

Oh lordy yes.

 

[ferball]

Oh lordy yes.

What about without the 2020 delistings?

 

[King Corey]

What about without the 2020 delistings?

That tempers it to an extent but still not great hence contributing to some historic lows.

On the upside the 2022 trade/draft was our most positive in terms of starting to address list and depth issues, balance age demographics and bolstering quality experience.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

2023 Laws of the game document

In addition to this (which is updated every year) there is the book of AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE Regulations...

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2023/03/01/82776a92-9a26-41b3-94e8-ccff96bf0e47/Amended-AFL-Regulations-effective-28-February-2023.pdf

 

[Nylex]

Likewise, I agree with some of this. JZ basically cost us that Essendon game and I ******* hated him for it.
I don't know if that was due to inadequate skill, because JZ's actually hit some pretty nice kicks in his time in the backline, and I still firmly believe that the percentage of players in the league whose skills genuinely aren't up to it is ******* minute. Reckon other factors influence skill errors more; confidence, team system, concentration, whether the team is being smashed, fitness. Maybe JZ was buggered, but it was undoubtedly a poor display from a bloke who's supposed to be leading the team.

If we had, say, Collingwood's list, we'd make almost all their role players look ordinary. McCreery, Frampton, Hoskin Elliott, Elliott, Johnson, Noble. We'd be calling for their delisting. There's every chance that if Perez or Xerri or Bonar went to a team like Collingwood, they would thrive. We need to stop looking at players' performances in a vacuum and start looking at the 'why doesn't he look good' instead of the 'who doesn't look good.' Our development has been shithouse and not enough people criticise the club for that.

I'm also not great with the idea that these young blokes are supposed to be carrying the team towards success. We and the AFL media have tiptoed around how s**t this team has actually been recently. Not even University or early St Kilda or the expansion teams managed the streak we had last year. We have the only players since around 1950 to have a circa 12% win rate throughout their careers. The 'it will turn' mentality is less applicable to us because so many of our blokes invite the loss and struggle greatly to deal with the pressure purely because of the volume of losses. We need leaders in that 24-28 window who can have consistent output and know how success feels, and that's why I'd genuinely consider trading picks in the coming off-season for a seasoned player.

The main saving grace is that blokes have been re-signing left right and centre, and that clearly the mood around the club is upbeat. The VFL team is on track for finals. That's good. But until we get a game that we definitively win without needing external assistance from the opposition's stupidity or the umps or the siren, I'm gonna be pessimistic as * about the mental strength of these blokes when they get themselves into a winning situation.

In a months time, we have a home game at Marvel Stadium. We will thump Hawthorn. Can not wait

 

[amaz199]

I don't know if that was due to inadequate skill, because JZ's actually hit some pretty nice kicks in his time in the backline, and I still firmly believe that the percentage of players in the league whose skills genuinely aren't up to it is ******* minute. Reckon other factors influence skill errors more; confidence, team system, concentration, whether the team is being smashed, fitness. Maybe JZ was buggered, but it was undoubtedly a poor display from a bloke who's supposed to be leading the team.

I'm not actually blaming JZ in this instance however. He's a naturally good kick no doubt but his technique requires follow-through and a slower ball drop that allows his leg to gain maximum accuracy. Which is why I think he was such a good forward/mid. He was super dangerous from the stoppage bursting away and kicking long for a goal and had the strength to mark strongly and kick naturally beautiful set shots. He had a natural swing to his kicking that meant he could effortlessly kick 55-60. That's a crucial skill!

If we had, say, Collingwood's list, we'd make almost all their role players look ordinary. McCreery, Frampton, Hoskin Elliott, Elliott, Johnson, Noble. We'd be calling for their delisting. There's every chance that if Perez or Xerri or Bonar went to a team like Collingwood, they would thrive. We need to stop looking at players' performances in a vacuum and start looking at the 'why doesn't he look good' instead of the 'who doesn't look good.' Our development has been shithouse and not enough people criticise the club for that.

This is an unfair comparison because Collingwood's senior players are inherently superior to ours. Of course they will be better.

I'm also not great with the idea that these young blokes are supposed to be carrying the team towards success. We and the AFL media have tiptoed around how s**t this team has actually been recently. Not even University or early St Kilda or the expansion teams managed the streak we had last year. We have the only players since around 1950 to have a circa 12% win rate throughout their careers. The 'it will turn' mentality is less applicable to us because so many of our blokes invite the loss and struggle greatly to deal with the pressure purely because of the volume of losses. We need leaders in that 24-28 window who can have consistent output and know how success feels, and that's why I'd genuinely consider trading picks in the coming off-season for a seasoned player.

I mean, they are not supposed to but they are. Which might look bad, but to me, it sounds like we have a young group that is prepared to lead us after our older core hang up the boots. They've rolled up their sleeves and lifted when we've needed some competitiveness after suffering some unlucky setbacks. The best thing about us is the ceiling is so high for all those guys and yet, we still haven't seen everyone given a decent crack.

We've been s**t and still are, but I'm enjoying footy again because I can see the future. That's the most important part. The key takeaway.

 

[sutcliffe's hotel]

In a months time, we have a home game at Marvel Stadium. We will thump Hawthorn. Can not wait

The last time we seriously thumped Hawthorn heralded the new dawn.

So that is a yes please from me.

 

[King Corey]

In a months time, we have a home game at Marvel Stadium. We will thump Hawthorn. Can not wait

I've been reading how we're just going to turn up and thump Hawthorn for the last 2 years. Will believe it when I see it.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

I've been reading how we're just going to turn up and thump Hawthorn for the last 2 years. Will believe it when I see it.

We waited 10 years back in the day but when it happened, it was like your waters broke. Goals were coming with such a mighty rush I almost felt pity for the hapless losers on the night.









Well, pity isn't the right word. It was more like Ollie Robinson level abuse.

 

[Masked Avenger]

We shouldn't forget in all this soul searching, the Club actually chose to go down this path.

Ben Buckley and his crew finally realised in 2019 that Brad Scott's imprint on the team was not going to win us premierships so we decided we needed to invest in youth and top end talent. It was understood that would mean tumbling down the ladder.

They knew what it meant when they effectively walked the likes of BBB, Higgins and Tarrant out the door and left us, with the exception of Goldy and Cunners, the worst bunch of senior players that have represented the Club since the 1960's.

No doubt the Club undestimated the impact that would have and how terrible we would become on and off field, but it's been largely self inflicted.

While it's been terrible, I'm comforted by the thought that we're starting to assemble real talent being steered by top end coaches.

 

[czero]

This thread is pretty terrible.

What a bunch of sad sacks!

Screw that game. We were one grubby kick from curtis away from a 14 point game with 4 mins left and all the momentum.

I am not worried, or look enviously at hawthorn (really guys, lol). If you can be regularly close enough late in games with teams in the 8, that is where you are at. Its not some culture of losing, its young players being out on their feet at the end (sheezel a massive abberation). I mean we are losing almost 1/2 an afl midfielder each game we run George because he's 50s percentage game time. Lets give this new build some time.

On to the next one!

 

[Lomas]

This thread is pretty terrible.

What a bunch of sad sacks!

Screw that game. We were one grubby kick from curtis away from a 14 point game with 4 mins left and all the momentum.

I am not worried, or look enviously at hawthorn (really guys, lol). If you can be regularly close enough late in games with teams in the 8, that is where you are at. Its not some culture of losing, its young players being out on their feet at the end (sheezel a massive abberation). I mean we are losing almost 1/2 an afl midfielder each game we run George because he's 50s percentage game time. Lets give this new build some time.

On to the next one!

Very true. Young teams who come close but lose against good teams is actually a pretty good indicator of future success.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

Very true. Young teams who come close but lose against good teams is actually a pretty good indicator of future success.

Take it to the cricket thread please Lomas