Preview Round 17 - Brisbane Lions v West Coast Eagles - Saturday 8 July 2023 1:45 PM @ The Gabba

[dlanod]

it's a real dog eat dog at the moment

Lion eat lion

 

[Elixuh]

Nunez half cocked opinion painted as fact is actually backed up by performance on the field for weeks on end which I'm sure you and everyone else saw.

If he's had a crook back or whatever other ailment he might get let's see him earn his spot back which is surely the best way to go.

Fwiiw the people I respect who support other clubs are telling me the one way Brisbane stuffs up this year is holding on to players into the finals who are past it.

It's not as if we don't have players who have shown they offer more.

This is just dumb by Fagan . Giving Gunston a free ride back into the Seniors after he couldn't chase or run for weeks so he can look half reasonable.

Very disappointed after the step forward we made of recent weeks.

Nunez is a lot of things, a coward, an Essendon uncle basher, a Nerang snob, but he actually has quite a lot of insight. His opinions aren’t half cocked. I trust his position that Gunston has earnt a recall based on his preparation during the training block.

 

[martinson]

You obviously don't understand that Fagan is perpetually and irrevocably incorrect.

Come on Dlanold.

Who ever said that.

Every coach has a blind spot.

Clubs make selection blunders year upon year. They're human. There are issues going on no one knows about.

Having seen most of them this one is up there. Because he's done nothing to justify selection for about 8 weeks on end.

I would've rather he bring Rich back.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Is it not a persons own money and time to decide based on a factor? Even if said factor is juvenile such as a particular player being selected?

So you called it juvenile, I called it laughable. Are we actually disagreeing on anything here?

 

[martinson]

The weird thing about this thread is that anyone who thinks putting Gunston back in is really stinking it up after we made the break is painted as not supporting the club or Lion eat Lion or whatever else subterfuge is put up to get away from the fact that he's been rewarded for underperformance.

Again.

 

[JB42]

Gunston hasn't chased an opposition player or changed direction all year. He has been an absolute liability all season and the form of the side has improved for his absence. At his best was a great player. He HAS NOT earned a spot back in the side. If he'd played twos and shown better mobility and defensive intent then maybe his selection would be justified. If/when Lohman, who has been working his arse off in the twos, accepts an offer with another club, this unwarranted selection would likely be a factor in his decision making.
Fagan may feel he owes Gunston something, but the Brisbane Lions Football Club do not.

Yes, defenders can’t zone off Gunston and he always halfs the contest. If anything that is exactly what he taught me this season.

 

[martinson]

Nunez is a lot of things, a coward, an Essendon uncle basher, a Nerang snob, but he actually has quite a lot of insight. His opinions aren’t half cocked. I trust his position that Gunston has earnt a recall based on his preparation during the training block.

He called my opinion half cocked.

I was going on about it from what I saw straight off the bat. And we had to lose twice before they woke up.

I've trained fairly well myself this week as well.

 

[Dalions]

Looks to me as though we are not prepared to take West Coast lightly.
With 3 very experienced players coming in for the outs. And then add in Madden to keep some speed in the team.
A win and percentage is extremely important to our chances at the end of the year and that is why this team has been named.
Without the injuries or suspension the team would have remained pretty much the same bar maybe Zorko coming in for Fletcher or AhChee.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Everyone burying the lede with the Gunston chit chat. The big story is ‘Enery Smith being bumped up to emergency.

 

[Elixuh]

Imo I am sure gunston has earnt his spot. I reckon the coaches want a third experienced and smart tall like Gunston to play against the better sides. They will more easily nullify hipwood and Joe. We need a smart third talk to keep them honest. Ultimately proof will be in the pudding once he runs out on Saturday.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I'm declaring myself as a female to make it 50/1.

If I'm wrong that anyone so far offering a negative viewpoint to the selection is female... well I'd be very surprised. I could be wrong, but I'd doubt it - I was a mod around here for a fraction of a second, so I probably have a better idea than most. Regardless of gender, the biggest thing that gets my goat more than anything on a place like this is people who act like they have all the answers who are really just guessing. A close second is overly emotional responses.

In any case, for the purpose of debate, I'll make the following points (which I'll confirm as opinion only, although I obviously feel they're correct):

1. Fagan is not the only one who picks the team. A selection panel picks them made up of other coaches. The player leadership also have their say (confirmed by Lachie on AFL360 this week). While I'm sure Fagan would make a captain's call and ultimately the buck stops with him, it's insulting to lay any criticism/insults/threats at his feet solely.
2. The selection panel have demonstrated that once they get an ideal setup in their minds in terms of team structure, they'll stick with it. I give the example of selecting Harry Sharp and Tunstill on a wing probably before they were ready. I think they feel that a smaller third tall option is more suitable than the second ruck or hybrid forward (eg Fort or Rayner). Perhaps they stick with their convictions a little too long, but it's arguably as good a policy than constantly chopping and changing.
3. Very few here would be able to assess how Gunston has been travelling at training. Nunez sounds like he's heard some things. In the absence of any opposing evidence, his information shouldn't be discounted just because it doesn't suit someone previously stated beliefs.
4. I'd argue there were some game earlier in the season where Gunston wasn't all that bad. Has he impacted the scoreboard as much as we'd hoped? Definitely not, but some other previous criticism on him was over the top.

 

[Gadzorks]

Imo I am sure gunston has earnt his spot. I reckon the coaches want a third experienced and smart tall like Gunston to play against the better sides. They will more easily nullify hipwood and Joe. We need a smart third talk to keep them honest. Ultimately proof will be in the pudding once he runs out on Saturday.

Next Friday.

the game against West Coast this Saturday will prove nothing.

Unless we just scrape a win. That will mean a lot.

 

[Elixuh]

Next Friday.

the game against West Coast this Saturday will prove nothing.

Unless we just scrape a win. That will mean a lot.

Gunners will kick 15 this week

 

[The Flying Belgian]

This kind of comment is incredibly belittling and a highlight of what this board has become, where every comment is scrutinised and blasted unless it appeals to the masses.

Everything is a “melt” or “cringe” unless it’s a safe post that upsets no one. Not every post has to be highlighted or referred to. Laugh react or thumbs down and move on, in my opinion.

You see, I'd argue that the emotional responses in this thread highlight what this board has become, where most posts are trigger reactions and hot takes without any self-moderation or self-reflections. I'm probably out of touch and in the minority, given that's what a lot of the internet has become. But not even during the Aker Wars of the mid 2000's did people seem to be so reactive.

 

[martinson]

If I'm wrong that anyone so far offering a negative viewpoint to the selection is female... well I'd be very surprised. I could be wrong, but I'd doubt it - I was a mod around here for a fraction of a second, so I probably have a better idea than most. Regardless of gender, the biggest thing that gets my goat more than anything on a place like this is people who act like they have all the answers who are really just guessing. A close second is overly emotional responses.

In any case, for the purpose of debate, I'll make the following points (which I'll confirm as opinion only, although I obviously feel they're correct):

1. Fagan is not the only one who picks the team. A selection panel picks them made up of other coaches. The player leadership also have their say (confirmed by Lachie on AFL360 this week). While I'm sure Fagan would make a captain's call and ultimately the buck stops with him, it's insulting to lay any criticism/insults/threats at his feet solely.
2. The selection panel have demonstrated that once they get an ideal setup in their minds in terms of team structure. I give the example of selecting Harry Sharp and Tunstill on a wing probably before they were ready. I think they feel that a smaller third tall option is more suitable than the second ruck or hybrid forward (eg Fort or Rayner). Perhaps they stick with their convictions a little too long, but it's arguably as good a policy than constantly chopping and changing.
3. Very few here would be able to assess how Gunston has been travelling at training. Nunez sounds like he's heard some things. In the absence of any opposing evidence, his information shouldn't be discounted just because it doesn't suit someone previously stated beliefs.
4. I'd argue there were some game earlier in the season where Gunston wasn't all that bad. Has he impacted the scoreboard as much as we'd hoped? Definitely not, but some other previous criticism on him was over the top.

I understand your points.

The issue for me is that Gunston has ben terrible in most games bar one where he fluked 3 straight kicks and then disappeared for the rest of the game. There hasn't been another game when he hasn't been very ordinary at best. And a complete liability in others to the point where we had to drag him off .

The improvement in Hipwood and others since he left is there for all to see.

I think they're making a huge mistake with Gunston ,one that may cost us. There's enough evidence there to back up my opinion thus far.

But happy for others to have a contrary view.

 

[Section 5]

The selection boils down to Gunston being preferred over Lohmann or B. Coleman for that forward spot.
Other players are either injured or not forwards.

Lohmann shows potential but was subbed out of the game v Saints then dropped the next week.
He has played 2 games this year.
6 disposals v Saints with 51% TOG. Subbed out.
14 disposals v Swans with 71% TOG was a solid effort.
No goals scored in those two games.

In 2022 he had 4 & 9 disposal games also without scoring a goal.
In 4 games over 2 years he has averaged 8.2 disposals and zero goals

I think people are way overestimating his worth to the team.
As i said he has potential, but his form at AFL level does not scream out pick me, if a forward is unavailable.

 

[Elixuh]

I think people are overestimating how much gunner has to improve to have a big impact on our team (which is really only looking for small improvements now) - it isn’t much.

 

[Nunez]

I think people are overestimating how much gunner has to improve to have a big impact on our team (which is really only looking for small improvements now) - it isn’t much.

Bro don't go against the group think.

Gunston to kick 20.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I understand your points.

The issue for me is that Gunston has ben terrible in most games bar one where he fluked 3 straight kicks and then disappeared for the rest of the game. There hasn't been another game when he hasn't been very ordinary at best. And a complete liability in others to the point where we had to drag him off .

The improvement in Hipwood and others since he left is there for all to see.

I think they're making a huge mistake with Gunston ,one that may cost us. There's enough evidence there to back up my opinion thus far.

But happy for others to have a contrary view.

Glad you can consider my points rationally (although you're one poster i don't consider irrational). Although I'd still argue "terrible" and "in most games" to be a little on the hyberbolic side for mine.

My fifth point from earlier would be that we haven't exactly been kicking the ball well to Jack. He's a lead-and-mark players whereas we're generally a kick-it-long-then-mark-or-crumb team.

The more I think about it, now is the best time to try him again. If he's found some fitness then we can move forward. If not, we can loko to another setup. And I think if they were committed to the veterans against all logic like some are suggesting. Rich would be back in the team too, but he's not.

Personally, I'd have stuck with the Rayner option for a little longer, but that's just me.

 

[martinson]

I think people are overestimating how much gunner has to improve to have a big impact on our team (which is really only looking for small improvements now) - it isn’t much.

We keep hoping he's just going to come out of nowhere and kick 3 or 4 in a big game.

I just can't see the capability any more unless he can turn the clock back.

He can't run . He can't chase. It's no big deal if he does nothing and just leads into space or whatever. It's the way they keep cutting us up on the way back that was really starting to hurt us badly. Even when we were winning.

 

[briztoon]

I think people are overestimating how much gunner has to improve to have a big impact on our team (which is really only looking for small improvements now) - it isn’t much.

How is he going to get back whatever speed and agility he once had?

He hadn't lost form or skills, before he was dropped. He had lost whatever little athletic ability he had. So to Rich.

They weren't physically capable of performing athletically at the level required.

Pretty much the same reason why we told Witherden to find a new club, as we weren't going to guarantee him a best 22 spot.

 

[Elixuh]

How is he going to get back whatever speed and agility he once had?

He hadn't lost form or skills, before he was dropped. He had lost whatever little athletic ability he had. So to Rich.

They weren't physically capable of performing athletically at the level required.

Pretty much the same reason why we told Witherden to find a new club, as we weren't going to guarantee him a best 22 spot.

I’m willing to hold judgement until I see his performance on field. It’s ok to be afraid of the golden age of gunners - it’s coming. This Saturday.

 

[LIONS08]

Yes, defenders can’t zone off Gunston and he always halfs the contest. If anything that is exactly what he taught me this season.

Just you watch! A fit and firing Gunston is a completely different player than we have seen in lions colours. Mind you, early on we overlooked him quiet often as we just weren’t locked into his leading patterns. Interested to continue this conversation if we get the see how good Gunners can be!

 

[martinson]

Bro don't go against the group think.

Gunston to kick 20.

The group think seems to be supporting him.

Strangely enough.

They must want him back in or they wouldn't have played him in this match against a team that doesn't cut you up from the back half.

Just disappointed that it was a game to show we'd moved on and if he wanted to get back in he needed to prove it with performance against those vying for his spot.

We owe him zilch with what he's delivered this year.

With all due respect to the player he was and whatever else he brings.

 

[Elixuh]

The group think seems to be supporting him.

Strangely enough.

They must want him back in or they wouldn't have played him in this match against a team that doesn't cut you up from the back half.

Just disappointed that it was a game to show we'd moved on and if he wanted to get back in he needed to prove if with performance against those vying for his spot.

We owe him zilch with what he's delivered this year.

With all due respect to the player he was and whatever else he brings.

Who are the players vying for his spot?