Top 10 Captains since the Turn of the Century

[Meteoric Rise]

Pendles played great H&A footy and trained hard and spoke well = great skipper. His team achieved nothing, he played very poorly in many close finals losses including the GF of 2018 and PF of 2019, and the team performed better when he wasn’t captain - winning flags 4-years before made captain and 1-year after relinquishing it… but hey… why should actual performance of the team be factored in?

But he presents well, trained hard and was a model citizen = great captain ‍[emoji574]️.



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My favourite bit is Fadge rates Selwood 3, Cotchin 4, Pendlebury 5.

In other words Cotchin is rated 4th and Selwood and Pendlebury combined are rated 4th on average, equal to Cotchin.

Cotchin 3 flags from 9 seasons(33% flag rate) captaining what Fadge thinks is a club that belongs in the bottom half of the ladder.

The other pair captained 1 flag in 20 years between them(5% flag rate.) And they captained clubs whose virtues Fadge consistently extols.

Of course there is so much more to leadership than merely leading your club to Premierships.

 

[Fadge]

Of course there is so much more to leadership than merely leading your club to Premierships.

Hang on...

All we've heard for the past 4 years is that Martin singlehandedly powered his team to 3 flags in 4 years.

But now you're saying it was Cotchin's leadership?

FMD.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Hang on...

All we've heard for the past 4 years is that Martin singlehandedly powered his team to 3 flags in 4 years.

But now you're saying it was Cotchin's leadership?

FMD.

Classic Fadge. Embarasses itself royally, gets called out, it starts crying about someone else.

The thing I was good enough to point out about you is right there is the opening post on this thread for all to see.

The thing you made up about me...I have never once said. You made it up.

 

[Fadge]

The thing you made up about me...I have never once said. You made it up.

'Never ONCE said'.

It wasn't said 'once'.... it has been said about 1000 times.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Classic Fadge. Embarasses itself royally, gets called out, it starts crying about someone else.

The thing I was good enough to point out about you is right there is the opening post on this thread for all to see.

The thing you made up about me...I have never once said. You made it up.

Accuses Tiger supporters of blind loyalty to Martin… and rates zero flag Pendles 5th best skipper of the century.

And not just zero flags. 4 finals in 9 seasons when they are 9-1 when he’s not captain. Made fjnals every year from 2006-2013 when Pendles took over - missed finals next 4 x seasons. Won a flag the season after he relinquished captaincy. 53% win rate as captain when they are 67% when he’s not captain. Really poor games as leader in the 2018 GF and 2019 PF.

Other than being captain for a long time, what did he actually bring to the table as skipper when the team he plays for has been wildly more successful when he hasn’t had the ‘C’?

I don’t necessarily think he was a bad captain, but it’s also pretty clear he failed miserably on almost every meaningful measure of what makes a successful captain.


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[Meteoric Rise]

'Never ONCE said'.

It wasn't said 'once'.... it has been said about 1000 times.

Show us one example of where it was said then, then people might believe you. Or more to the point, stop disbelieving you.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Accuses Tiger supporters of blind loyalty to Martin… and rates zero flag Pendles 5th best skipper of the century.

And not just zero flags. 4 finals in 9 seasons when they are 9-1 when he’s not captain. Made fjnals every year from 2006-2013 when Pendles took over - missed finals next 4 x seasons. Won a flag the season after he relinquished captaincy. 53% win rate as captain when they are 67% when he’s not captain. Really poor games as leader in the 2018 GF and 2019 PF.

Other than being captain for a long time, what did he actually bring to the table as skipper when the team he plays for has been wildly more successful when he hasn’t had the ‘C’?

I don’t necessarily think he was a bad captain, but it’s also pretty clear he failed miserably on almost every meaningful measure of what makes a successful captain.


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Apparently Scott did a lot of pointing to places in the 2023 Grand Final. Astonishing leadership from the least successful of Collingwood's last 3 captains.

 

[sleep]

Even with the Tugs' recent success, their little man syndrome still hasn’t gone away.

 

[Fadge]

Even with the Tugs' recent success, their little man syndrome still hasn’t gone away.

Over 3 consecutive decades of complete ineptitude will do that to a supporter base.

 

[Fadge]

Show us one example of where it was said then, then people might believe you. Or more to the point, stop disbelieving you.

I don't need to 'show' anything.

People who use this forum are very familiar with your posting history about Martin and his finals exploits, 'single handedly carrying his team to 3 flags in 4 years'....

 

[sleep]

Over 3 consecutive decades of complete ineptitude will do that to a supporter base.

Three decades of ineptitude is the norm; five years of success is the outlier—perfectly exemplified by the persistent chip on the shoulders of the supporter base.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I don't need to 'show' anything.

People who use this forum are very familiar with your posting history about Martin and his finals exploits, 'single handedly carrying his team to 3 flags in 4 years'....

It usually goes in a sequence like this Fadge:

1. I post Dusty is the GOAT finals player/his team's best player in 3 flag winning finals campaigns/uniquely the difference between his team winning or losing more than 1 final

2. You instantly misquote me as saying Dusty single handedly carried Richmond to 3 flags(a completely impossible feat for any player)

3. I make any point on any thread highlighting the merits of Richmond's dynasty team/their defence/their leadership for eg

4. You reach into your memory bank trying to recall if I have ever made any statements that contradict 3. What you remember is 2. Ie nothing I have actually said, just what you incorrectly said I said when you were being a drama queen having a hissey fit trying to create straw man arguments because you don't have the minerals to argue with what I actually posted.

5. I ask you where I ever said 2. above.

6. You spend hours and hours scouring the Dusty thread for an example, alas, you can not locate even one example of something you say I said about 1000 times.

The most amusing part of all this is I think you have melodramatically misquoted me that many times you have started to actually believe I said the things you attributed to me. That, or you are just a straight out liar.

More to the point of this thread, we can all now see you don't wish to discuss the embarrassing fact you rated Cotchin(with 3 flags in 9 years at what you say is a weak club) at number 4 on your laughable list of leaders this century, then you rated Selwood & Pendlebury combined(1 flag in 20 years of captaincy between them) at numbers 3 & 5 - so on average, number 4, the same as Cotchin. For those familiar with your posting, it is more or less like Cotchin has successfully skippered a wooden life boat without instruments across thousands of miles of stormy seas, but you cannot bring yourself to say that is a better skippering feat than 2 skippers who navigated modern fully equipped vessels from dock 3 to dock 17 at the local port. You can't even bring yourself to address the issue, thus the false "you said this about Dusty" distraction.

 

[Bald]

Going to get smashed for this, and it's clearly a biased view, but the way our club looked after 2014, for Bob Murphy to come in and be named AFLPA Captain, as well as All Australian captain in 2015, and would have been a premiership captain in 2016 had he not done his knee (assuming everything else goes the way it did). I realise he's a bit of a dork, and not everybody's cup of tea though. Not your typical Hodge/Voss type of captain.

 

[G String]

Going to get smashed for this, and it's clearly a biased view, but the way our club looked after 2014, for Bob Murphy to come in and be named AFLPA Captain, as well as All Australian captain in 2015, and would have been a premiership captain in 2016 had he not done his knee (assuming everything else goes the way it did). I realise he's a bit of a dork, and not everybody's cup of tea though. Not your typical Hodge/Voss type of captain.

Bob is highly respected, much loved and clearly a great leader. Appears like he transformed their culture and brought them success. Has to be in the discussion.

 

[Bald]

Bob is highly respected, much loved and clearly a great leader. Appears like he transformed their culture and brought them success. Has to be in the discussion.

I don't think he had enough success to have him in the top 10 captains of the century, I think that's a stretch, but I'd have him in a top 20 I think.

 

[G String]

Not in the top 4 but def in the discussion for top 10 - he's leadership was crucial in transforming a struggling club and bringing success after a 62 year drought. Essentially a premiership captain - there's only been 18 of them since 2000 - which I think is a pre-req. I'd def put him ahead of 9-10 of the other premiership captains since 2000.

 

[darcytiger]

Captain in footy is a glorified coin tosser. Funny how in cricket the Captain is all important and the coach is irrelevant, vice versa in footy in my opinion.

Only really a couple of metrics that we can see as outsiders that are relevant.

1. Their own performance on the field. Once the ball is bounced, there is little else a captain can do other than lead by example.

2. Prevalence of dickheads/(repeated) dickhead behaviour. I think this is really the only off field metric that we can see as outsiders. Isolated incidents aside, any captain worth their salt should be able to (along with the leadership group) wrangle and put downward pressure on blokes who keep step out of line and nip it in the bud early to prevent it becoming a habit.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I don't think he had enough success to have him in the top 10 captains of the century, I think that's a stretch, but I'd have him in a top 20 I think.

We have no properly informed way of working out who the best leaders are or were. But with certain captains it is pretty clear they have played a big role in lifting their team to great heights. Murphy is one of those.

 

[G String]

Captain in footy is a glorified coin tosser. Funny how in cricket the Captain is all important and the coach is irrelevant, vice versa in footy in my opinion.

Only really a couple of metrics that we can see as outsiders that are relevant.

1. Their own performance on the field. Once the ball is bounced, there is little else a captain can do other than lead by example.

2. Prevalence of dickheads/(repeated) dickhead behaviour. I think this is really the only off field metric that we can see as outsiders. Isolated incidents aside, any captain worth their salt should be able to (along with the leadership group) wrangle and put downward pressure on blokes who keep step out of line and nip it in the bud early to prevent it becoming a habit.

Cricket captains are tactical leaders - good footy captains are leaders of the culture which is more important IMO. On the ground they really just re-inforce the coach message and lead by example but off the ground guiding 40 odd blokes, setting standards and being the one that everyone looks to means they have a massive influence

 

[Noidnadroj]

Going to get smashed for this, and it's clearly a biased view, but the way our club looked after 2014, for Bob Murphy to come in and be named AFLPA Captain, as well as All Australian captain in 2015, and would have been a premiership captain in 2016 had he not done his knee (assuming everything else goes the way it did). I realise he's a bit of a dork, and not everybody's cup of tea though. Not your typical Hodge/Voss type of captain.

Don’t know exactly where he ranks, but I do know I have him higher than no flag, finals flop Pendles.


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[PhatBoy]

My favourite bit is Fadge rates Selwood 3, Cotchin 4, Pendlebury 5.

In other words Cotchin is rated 4th and Selwood and Pendlebury combined are rated 4th on average, equal to Cotchin.

Cotchin 3 flags from 9 seasons(33% flag rate) captaining what Fadge thinks is a club that belongs in the bottom half of the ladder.

The other pair captained 1 flag in 20 years between them(5% flag rate.) And they captained clubs whose virtues Fadge consistently extols.

Of course there is so much more to leadership than merely leading your club to Premierships.

Ask some of the people who hold the west coast eagles dear to their heart if results and flags are all that matters.

Will there ever come a point where you assess anything beyond percentages and ratingz?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Ask some of the people who hold the west coast eagles dear to their heart if results and flags are all that matters.

Will there ever come a point where you assess anything beyond percentages and ratingz?

You better explain wtf you are on about, because I don't have a clue.

Do you think Pendlebury & Selwood were better leaders or equal to Cotchin? Or maybe you don't think that because you don't rally have a way of knowing. So like me you might revert to judging them by the only objective measure that counts, ie how many premierships they captained.

 

[Fadge]

You better explain wtf you are on about, because I don't have a clue.

Do you think Pendlebury & Selwood were better leaders or equal to Cotchin? Or maybe you don't think that because you don't rally have a way of knowing. So like me you might revert to judging them by the only objective measure that counts, ie how many premierships they captained.

When you watch games of football, there's plenty you can observe from the leaders of the respective teams.

But unfortunately, these details aren't captured in the stats sheets, so you won't be familiar with them...

 

[Pistol Night]

You better explain wtf you are on about, because I don't have a clue.

Do you think Pendlebury & Selwood were better leaders or equal to Cotchin? Or maybe you don't think that because you don't rally have a way of knowing. So like me you might revert to judging them by the only objective measure that counts, ie how many premierships they captained.

Rewatch some of the footy shows post 2023 GF and see what blokes that played the game said about Pendleburys influence on the ground beyond stats

 

[PhatBoy]

You better explain wtf you are on about, because I don't have a clue.

Do you think Pendlebury & Selwood were better leaders or equal to Cotchin? Or maybe you don't think that because you don't rally have a way of knowing. So like me you might revert to judging them by the only objective measure that counts, ie how many premierships they captained.

No. I find it hard to rank any of them, to be honest, I think it is one of the most unquantifiable things in the world.

What I am saying is that success is one of the stupidest possible ways you can measure captaincy on its own.

I actually DO rate Cotchin very highly as a captain, Richmond were a joke not just on the field but in every way a club can be a joke, really, and he made them respectable as much in general as they became in their results.

If you’re too stupid to understand the West Coast comment it says a lot about your intelligence.

Do you think given some of the trauma that their club has been through with scandal after scandal, one beloved ex-player who by all reports was very close to the players dying back when they were at their peak, others ODing, their best player and ex-captain with a meth addiction, one of their best players regularly in shit (Kerr) and the club basically falling to pieces and in the time since another member of that group was seemingly unable to keep his life together and has since sadly passed away tragically…..

Now none of that is ANYONE’S fault but the people who did those things. Cousins’ shortcomings were his own. Kerr’s, Mainwaring’s passing (and obviously he wasn’t even a player he was long retired), Fletcher did whatever he did in Vegas, Hunter had his demons etc etc.

That is no one else’s responsibility and should NEVER be viewed that way so please don’t think I’m suggesting that it should be.

But they were winning games, they won a premiership; were a kick away from winning two.

You don’t think better leadership around the club in general could have made that a better environment for the people in it?

I’m not trying to have a go at the eagles club by the way I have a huge amount of respect for them but cousins turned out to be a wrong choice and then poor Chris Judd got saddled with trying to lead a group that were at the top of their game on the field but getting off the rails away from it.

It’s actually amazing and testament to how strong the club itself has been that they’ve kept competing for most of the time since