Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVIII

[BratPack]

Boy that Michael Voss is showing some Aura
That's not Aura! That's Owen!
Owen?
Yeah Owen Four!

 

[justlookingaround]

Honestly Carlton are just really shit to watch. They play the game like it's a total slog.

 

[Call Me Cake]

EAD Saad

 

[raskolnikov]

EAD Saad

He'll probably want to request a trade back to the Gold Coast at the end of the year.

 

[raskolnikov]

Carlton supporters want Simpson as coach.

The one who turned the Eagles into an absolute basket case.

 

[andleanback]

Carlton supporters want Simpson as coach.

The one who turned the Eagles into an absolute basket case.

He wasn’t the list manager / recruiter

 

[ant555]

three teams who should have threatened this year have gone absolutely belly up

Carlton, Melbourne and Port Adelaide. few of the other mature teams walking that tight rope too (Fremantle, Sydney, Geelong)

Two of them are on the down side of the hill IMO.

Melbourne have had their day in the sun. Their good players are getting on a bit and they have had a couple of finals wipe outs since their GF win. For me their window has closed and they need a refresh.

Port are in a similar position as well IMO. They have had multiple chances in the last 6 years to get into the GF but have fallen at the last step a few times. Players wanting out. New coach coming in. The last little build they did seems to have run its race and the top up guys have generally been average.

Carlton are Carlton. When they can win the footy and get a run on they are good but they can not stop other sides from getting a run on. Their skills and team defense hurt them when they are under pressure.

Sydney. Are they suffering the GF smashing curse ? most teams in recent years that have been smashed in Grand Finals have been pretty average the next year. Throw in a few injuries and a new (albeit familiar) coach and they have their battles.

Fremantle. Personally I do not rate Longmuir. Think he falls into the same trap as Buckley did at the Pies and tries to look for the perfect game. On top of that there is just something not quite right there. They have attracted players but they have also lost a few they would rather have not lost.

Geelong always walk the tight rope. There is a little changing of the guard happening there.

 

[ant555]

Carlton supporters want Simpson as coach.

The one who turned the Eagles into an absolute basket case.

They spent 6 years in a row playing finals and won a flag with Simpson. They fell off the cliff and needed a rebuild. Simpson did not turn them into a basket case.

 

[HirdyLannister]

Time for Saady to jump off the Carlton sinking ship.

 

[VelvetSledge]

Time for Saady to jump off the Carlton sinking ship.

He stuck it out longer than I thought tbh

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Rocket Eade was saying on the footyology podcast that so far this season only 68% of teams that have won the contested ball differential have gone on to win the game vs around 80% historically. He was suggesting you need to win at least 2 of congested ball, pressure rating and kicking efficiency.

He was suggesting this is where carlton/dees have fallen off, their entire game is built on winning contested ball but their ball usage is terrible and outside of kossie picket not a great group of smalls providing the pressure.

I'm a bit worried about us based on this analysis, feel like we are hyper focused on contested footy too and our ball usage is atrocious. There have been games where our pressure rating has been excellent but need to do this more consistently.
Another point he made was the days of the midfield bull being the most important role are fading and there's a focus on guys who can break out of the congestion and have good evasive skills/speed. I think we were hoping tsatas would be this guy but haven't seen much evidence of it yet. Duz provides it a little but I'm wondering if it's worth throwing martin into the middle every now and then? He is out of form at the moment so might provide a spark for him.

 

[ant555]

Been a few comments in various places about jumper clash in last nights game but personally I had no issue. Carlton where wearing white shorts and for me it was simply a case of focusing on that as the difference but then maybe that is a throw back to my early viewing of the VFL from the mid seventies when away sides simply wore the white shorts.

 

[ant555]

Rocket Eade was saying on the footyology podcast that so far this season only 68% of teams that have won the contested ball differential have gone on to win the game vs around 80% historically. He was suggesting you need to win at least 2 of congested ball, pressure rating and kicking efficiency.

He was suggesting this is where carlton/dees have fallen off, their entire game is built on winning contested ball but their ball usage is terrible and outside of kossie picket not a great group of smalls providing the pressure.

I'm a bit worried about us based on this analysis, feel like we are hyper focused on contested footy too and our ball usage is atrocious. There have been games where our pressure rating has been excellent but need to do this more consistently.
Another point he made was the days of the midfield bull being the most important role are fading and there's a focus on guys who can break out of the congestion and have good evasive skills/speed. I think we were hoping tsatas would be this guy but haven't seen much evidence of it yet. Duz provides it a little but I'm wondering if it's worth throwing martin into the middle every now and then? He is out of form at the moment so might provide a spark for him.

Mentioned a few posts up that part of Carltons issues where skills. With sides wanting to play fast rebound footy you can not afford too many turnovers. Crows scored 80 points of our turnovers . Yes we have a skill level issue but the best sides win off the back of a combination of contested ball. Good skills. Organized team defence and some outside speed to break the lines. I do not think we are hyper focused on contested footy. It was one area we had to improve and really the first area that needed improving. The outside skilled players can not get into the game if the inside guys are not winning contested football. The Hawks play the best brand right now and it is off the back of elite ground ball get players , great kicking skills and some outside speed. They have also got their team defense sorted.
It is a worry for us but the solution is fine tuning the list. We have what we have . We need a few upgrades. Martin has been in the midfield a few times this year. May not be noticeable as he does not attend center bounces but he has rolled into the midfield in general play at times.
The fix is not short term. The fix is draft and trade.

 

[dank420_]

Time for Saady to jump off the Carlton sinking ship.

He doesn’t care about winning

 

[faible]

he kicks it a long way but id have two or three easily ahead of him..

So this would mean you'd rate him around a top five kick in the league then.

 

[jannissary]

i think the main issue with carlton's side is that, beyond the top 4 (TDK, Weitering, Cripps, Curnow), the rest of their list is shockingly mediocre. I personally don't see it with TDK, either. I think he's a servicable ruckman, but compared to Xerri (who monstered him so bad his family had a sook), Cameron & other bigger bodied players, he gets toweled up.

 

[Old Campaigner]

So this would mean you'd rate him around a top five kick in the league then.

This is why you need a spreadsheet to keep track of your player ratings

 

[raskolnikov]

Forced to barrack for Collingwood last night and Geelong tonight. I feel sick.

 

[doug85]

i think the main issue with carlton's side is that, beyond the top 4 (TDK, Weitering, Cripps, Curnow), the rest of their list is shockingly mediocre. I personally don't see it with TDK, either. I think he's a servicable ruckman, but compared to Xerri (who monstered him so bad his family had a sook), Cameron & other bigger bodied players, he gets toweled up.

Xerri might be more influential with his ruck work, but TDK is like an extra midfielder and can play anywhere on the field.

I think he’s elite and deserves the cash being thrown at him.

 

[Zach Package]

Reckon the biggest issue with Carlton is that their drafting actually stinks.

Their team is picks inside the top 30 (and a lot at the pointy end of the top 30), and established players from other club. They get the easy stuff right but apart from that they can't find anything.

Cottrell is probably the only example I can think of where they have found a diamond. They don't get credit for finding SOS.

It was very on brand for Carlton to go massively chips in on Jagga Smith and trade something like 2 firsts, a second and third for one player when they needed help in lots of different spots.

 

[jannissary]

Xerri might be more influential with his ruck work, but TDK is like an extra midfielder and can play anywhere on the field.

I think he’s elite and deserves the cash being thrown at him.

he might well be able to, but using him as a ruck exposes his weaknesses, last night he was appalling

 

[doug85]

he might well be able to, but using him as a ruck exposes his weaknesses, last night he was appalling

I agree he wasn’t great in the ruck last night. But he was every other match so far this year

 

[Maddogm]

I agree he wasn’t great in the ruck last night. But he was every other match so far this year

even the ones he wasn't playing?

 

[MiguelM]

Been a few comments in various places about jumper clash in last nights game but personally I had no issue. Carlton where wearing white shorts and for me it was simply a case of focusing on that as the difference but then maybe that is a throw back to my early viewing of the VFL from the mid seventies when away sides simply wore the white shorts.

Agree, didn't see a problem with it.

Watching Coll/North in the mud on black and white telly in the 70s, now that was hard!

 

[joey_jo_jo]

Mentioned a few posts up that part of Carltons issues where skills. With sides wanting to play fast rebound footy you can not afford too many turnovers. Crows scored 80 points of our turnovers . Yes we have a skill level issue but the best sides win off the back of a combination of contested ball. Good skills. Organized team defence and some outside speed to break the lines. I do not think we are hyper focused on contested footy. It was one area we had to improve and really the first area that needed improving. The outside skilled players can not get into the game if the inside guys are not winning contested football. The Hawks play the best brand right now and it is off the back of elite ground ball get players , great kicking skills and some outside speed. They have also got their team defense sorted.
It is a worry for us but the solution is fine tuning the list. We have what we have . We need a few upgrades. Martin has been in the midfield a few times this year. May not be noticeable as he does not attend center bounces but he has rolled into the midfield in general play at times.
The fix is not short term. The fix is draft and trade.

thats good to know re Martin. Yeah totally agree its a long term fix and I do see with our recent recruiting more focus on endurance / footy iq /skills.