Preview R8: Changes vs. Carlton - Nicks Sucks and Must be Sacked

[WetCrow1991]

Unfortunately we aren’t looking to introduce a new player, we are trying to replace an existing player for 1 week.

Carlton have 3 big key forwards which will have to be Butts, Max and Worrell, this would normally leave Hinge to take Cripps or Walsh when they rest forward.

If you honestly think a first game player who has only 4 games of experience playing in the backline would do a better job on Patrick Cripps than Brodie Smith then I’m sorry, you aren’t being honest. Cripps would absolutely monster him.

I'm sorry, but Cripps will obliterate Smith.

 

[Cromulant]

Unfortunately we aren’t looking to introduce a new player, we are trying to replace an existing player for 1 week.

Carlton have 3 big key forwards which will have to be Butts, Max and Worrell, this would normally leave Hinge to take Cripps or Walsh when they rest forward.

If you honestly think a first game player who has only 4 games of experience playing in the backline would do a better job on Patrick Cripps than Brodie Smith then I’m sorry, you aren’t being honest. Cripps would absolutely monster him.

Keane is playing....

And Smith would be destroyed by Cripps, so you may as well play an Edwards or Ryan. They might get belted too, but theyll learn something.

 

[weekend at bernies]

This image sums up Nixs selections perfectly.

 

[CrowBloke]

I can just imagine the conversation Nicks had with Edwards and Ryan when letting them know they didn't get selected.

"Sorry guys but this is an important game and Brodie has a lot of AFL experience. Once you guys get more AFL experience we will bring you in to the senior side"

Funny and sad at the same time.

Funny, because it's ridiculous .
Sad, because it's probably close to what he actually said .

 

[skam85]

Just for the cherry on top, we'll make Smith sub for his 33yr old leg speed late in the game

 

[Interloperer]

Tired: Dawson should play across half-back because he is a better choice than Smith to replace Hinge.

Wired: Dawson should play across half-back because his form has been patchy and unreliable and needs an unchallenging game collecting easy half-back flank possessions to get some rhythm back.

 

[CrowBloke]

Isn’t there a whole selection committee? I want Nicks gone

So do I; I'm over Nicks.
However, he's being (over)paid to be Head Coach which means the final decisions always rest with him.
The fact that they're lousy decisions is why he should be sacked.

but geez we were making these dumb selection decisions under Pyke too.

I disagree (unless you mean post- the GF loss, then maybe).
Pyke >> daylight >> Nicks. 5th in 2016, GF 2017, then McGovern/ Leaver/ Cameron Exodus, then after-Camp meltdown.

We need a coach like Buckley who was a better player than Roo to come in so he can push back against the whole AFC system / culture.

I'd like Buckley too but ...
Problems:
--- I doubt he'd come to AFC based on what he's seen about how Roo et al have operated, for years. He might if they promised him free rein, BUT would they?
--- if he felt for a minute that he'd have to "push back against the whole AFC system / culture", he'd pass I reckon.

Club vs. Coach is not a recipe to win a Flag.
(P.S. I think that's why Peggy O'Neal @ Richmond is not given enough credit, imo.
They finished 13th in 2016 after a solid rise 2013-14-15, but she supported Hardwick
Changes were made, by her.
Hardwick changed, a lot. Everybody got on board the same train going in the same direction ==> 3 Flags in 4 years.
I think this is the doco that explained it all:
)

 

[Dangarman]

Just for the cherry on top, we'll make Smith sub for his 33yr old leg speed late in the game

Probably a better plan than subbing him off when he's gassed by half time.

I'm guessing Butts in for Murray, Smith in for Hinge, Berry in for Crouch as the 'like for like' forced outs.

If that's the case it means Fog in for Draper.

Draper is clearly still on the fringe despite being a part of all 7 games so far. Four of those he was named sub, was subbed off vs GWS, and only got 60 and 63% game time against GC and Geelong respectively. Fog being available was always going to be an 'in', and so probably makes sense that the most fringe player gets dropped for him.

(Not saying anything about whether or not these are good selections, just trying to understand the rationale)

 

[Hodgy]

Keane is playing....

And Smith would be destroyed by Cripps, so you may as well play an Edwards or Ryan. They might get belted too, but theyll learn something.

I’m actually not against blooding Edwards personally, but suggesting Smith wouldn’t be a better option at this stage of their careers is crazy. Smith has been an absolute star of the comp for 14 years, and has looked awesome at SANFL level for the last 4 weeks. He’s also a very similar player to Hinge. Over 6 foot, very hard body and elite kick, that could actually be Hinge.

If Hinge was out for 4 weeks I think Edwards would be the play, but for a one off game against a very tall, powerful forward line, then Smith is the obvious choice.

I’m not sure under what circumstances people think Smith would play if not this week, and if people respond with never then I’m sorry, the argument is about whether he should be still on the list, not should he be cover for Hinge against Carlton.

 

[Firewalker]

Honestly changed my mind about this game Saturday, seeing Rory Laird

29

Rory Laird

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.4

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

12.5

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.3

4star

MG

367.5

5star

D

19.6

5star

K

10.9

4star

HB

8.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

MG

255.3

4star

D

14.6

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.0

5star

and Brodie Smith

33

Brodie Smith

Age

33

Ht

194cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.5

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

500.1

5star

D

17.1

4star

K

12.6

5star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

438.9

5star

D

17.2

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.6

5star

line up again as the starting halfbacks in 2025 is going to be awesome, it will be just like when you used to see Tony McGuinness and Andrew Jarman lining up together again in the centre in the Slowdowns.

It’s like Nicks has set up his own throwback, ‘stars from the last semi successful Crows-era’ charity game. Nicks just needs to bring Fitzy & Guy Sebastian on in the last quarter.

 

[OccamsRazorRay]

I’m actually not against blooding Edwards personally, but suggesting Smith wouldn’t be a better option at this stage of their careers is crazy. Smith has been an absolute star of the comp for 14 years, and has looked awesome at SANFL level for the last 4 weeks. He’s also a very similar player to Hinge. Over 6 foot, very hard body and elite kick, that could actually be Hinge.

If Hinge was out for 4 weeks I think Edwards would be the play, but for a one off game against a very tall, powerful forward line, then Smith is the obvious choice.

I’m not sure under what circumstances people think Smith would play if not this week, and if people respond with never then I’m sorry, the argument is about whether he should be still on the list, not should he be cover for Hinge against Carlton.

Sorry mate this sounds like a fairly decent assessment. You are about to be crucified

 

[OccamsRazorRay]

I'm no Smith fan by any stretch of the imagination, but is it that difficult to see why? Hinge is out which is a tonne of experience out the door so they're no doubt worried about the stability of the backline. Smith also has decent leg speed, very similar to Hinge. If you're talking like-for-like attributes (not in terms of actual quality) with experience then he'll be in consideration. The game is metres gained in that position, and Milera is having a shocker bringing the ball down the ground and keeps passing it sideways (132 metres gained......)

Nankervis just doesn't look great in that position off HB, Curtin doesn't have the speed, we don't want to swing Dawson into that position or we'll simply get murdered in the middle with Cripps/Hewett/Cerra combo...

I'm all for giving Edwards a debut but this coaching group won't take the risk in an inexperienced kid over Smith, ain't gonna happen. Like I've said previously Crows rebuild is done, and giving players games to blood them when they're an unknown quantity isn't going to happen unless they are in a CLEAR vein of form, and when there isn't another experienced option available. The coaching group are terrified for their jobs.

Outs:-
Murray
Hinge
Crouch
Taylor

Ins:-
Butts
Smith
Berry
Fog

Draper (Sub)

Well..... this was spot on.

I like the changes!

 

[Cromulant]

I’m actually not against blooding Edwards personally, but suggesting Smith wouldn’t be a better option at this stage of their careers is crazy. Smith has been an absolute star of the comp for 14 years, and has looked awesome at SANFL level for the last 4 weeks. He’s also a very similar player to Hinge. Over 6 foot, very hard body and elite kick, that could actually be Hinge.

If Hinge was out for 4 weeks I think Edwards would be the play, but for a one off game against a very tall, powerful forward line, then Smith is the obvious choice.

I’m not sure under what circumstances people think Smith would play if not this week, and if people respond with never then I’m sorry, the argument is about whether he should be still on the list, not should he be cover for Hinge against Carlton.

Star of the comp for 14 years ??

Surely you're extracting the urine ??

 

[GreyCrow]

I’m actually not against blooding Edwards personally, but suggesting Smith wouldn’t be a better option at this stage of their careers is crazy. Smith has been an absolute star of the comp for 14 years, and has looked awesome at SANFL level for the last 4 weeks. He’s also a very similar player to Hinge. Over 6 foot, very hard body and elite kick, that could actually be Hinge.

He was very good for about 8 of those 14 years

If Hinge was out for 4 weeks I think Edwards would be the play, but for a one off game against a very tall, powerful forward line, then Smith is the obvious choice.

No he isnt the obvious choice. There have been many internal moves ie Dawson back and midfield time to others . Dawson on Cripps works much much better than Smith

I’m not sure under what circumstances people think Smith would play if not this week, and if people respond with never then I’m sorry, the argument is about whether he should be still on the list, not should he be cover for Hinge against Carlton.

He shouldnt be on our list

 

[Slime Roy]

So do I; I'm over Nicks.
However, he's being (over)paid to be Head Coach which means the final decisions always rest with him.
The fact that they're lousy decisions is why he should be sacked.

I disagree (unless you mean post- the GF loss, then maybe).
Pyke >> daylight >> Nicks. 5th in 2016, GF 2017, then McGovern/ Leaver/ Cameron Exodus, then after-Camp meltdown.

I'd like Buckley too but ...
Problems:
--- I doubt he'd come to AFC based on what he's seen about how Roo et al have operated, for years. He might if they promised him free rein, BUT would they?
--- if he felt for a minute that he'd have to "push back against the whole AFC system / culture", he'd pass I reckon.

Club vs. Coach is not a recipe to win a Flag.
(P.S. I think that's why Peggy O'Neal @ Richmond is not given enough credit, imo.
They finished 13th in 2016 after a solid rise 2013-14-15, but she supported Hardwick
Changes were made, by her.
Hardwick changed, a lot. Everybody got on board the same train going in the same direction ==> 3 Flags in 4 years.
I think this is the doco that explained it all:
)

Thankfully Roo will be gone & Balme & Gags will now be the "Footy Heads" The Board turns too.

 

[CrowBloke]

This is the part I don't get. ... ... Surely you'd be at the point where you'd want and/or need to roll the dice on something and someone different to see if you go better with them?
Isn't the definition of madness something about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?

Yes.
That's why extending Nicks' contract for 2 years was a mistake, amounting to a $million+ reward for our 10th place in 2023 ie for mediocrity.
The Club opted for, chose, more-of-the-same, expecting a better result.

I also hate what this does to Brodie Smith himself.

I wouldn't worry about Smithers. He knows on which side his bread is buttered.

He was a very, very good player for this club for a very long time. Absolutely elite when at his peak. And yet here we are, watching the sad spectacle of him dragging himself through a couple of seasons more than he should have.

It's all about the ... cha-ching, cha-ching! If it wasn't, he'd have retired.

 

[Hodgy]

He was very good for about 8 of those 14 years

No he isnt the obvious choice. There have been many internal moves ie Dawson back and midfield time to others . Dawson on Cripps works much much better than Smith

He shouldnt be on our list

It’s a perfectly sound argument saying he shouldn’t be on the list, however he IS on the list, and that list is only 38 players. Under those circumstances he has to be one of the options to replace a player that he is very similar to for 1 week.

Dawson back is an option, however I’ve never seen him play a defensive role back there, playing him loose makes some sense though. However while everyone here is losing their mind about who plays our 4th defender spot, the reality is that Carlton have a midfield of Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett and Docherty. If we play Dawson back tomorrow then our midfield would consist of Soligo, Rankine, Peatling and Berry.

I can promise you that it will make no difference who plays in the backline if we let that midfield get 65 unpressured inside 50’s against us.

 

[Cromulant]

It’s a perfectly sound argument saying he shouldn’t be on the list, however he IS on the list, and that list is only 38 players. Under those circumstances he has to be one of the options to replace a player that he is very similar to for 1 week.

Dawson back is an option, however I’ve never seen him play a defensive role back there, playing him loose makes some sense though. However while everyone here is losing their mind about who plays our 4th defender spot, the reality is that Carlton have a midfield of Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett and Docherty. If we play Dawson back tomorrow then our midfield would consist of Soligo, Rankine, Peatling and Berry.

I can promise you that it will make no difference who plays in the backline if we let that midfield get 65 unpressured inside 50’s against us.

If Docherty plays in that midfield then we are a better chance than I thought.

Bloke is more cooked than Smith.

 

[CrowBloke]

Thankfully Roo will be gone & Balme & Gags will now be the "Footy Heads" The Board turns too.

I agree, but it feels like I've been ...

 

[GameofSloanes]

Looks like fitzy

 

[Smart Fella]

I’m actually not against blooding Edwards personally, but suggesting Smith wouldn’t be a better option at this stage of their careers is crazy. Smith has been an absolute star of the comp for 14 years, and has looked awesome at SANFL level for the last 4 weeks. He’s also a very similar player to Hinge. Over 6 foot, very hard body and elite kick, that could actually be Hinge.

If Hinge was out for 4 weeks I think Edwards would be the play, but for a one off game against a very tall, powerful forward line, then Smith is the obvious choice.

I’m not sure under what circumstances people think Smith would play if not this week, and if people respond with never then I’m sorry, the argument is about whether he should be still on the list, not should he be cover for Hinge against Carlton.

In isolation, I can see where you're coming from but these types of scenarios have come up constantly in Nicks' tenure. When Rachele was out for a block of games, he went straight to Murphy.

Nicks is the type of guy the would pi$$ in his own well and think it's an innovative idea.

 

[GreyCrow]

It’s a perfectly sound argument saying he shouldn’t be on the list, however he IS on the list, and that list is only 38 players. Under those circumstances he has to be one of the options to replace a player that he is very similar to for 1 week.

I think its a philosophy thing. Is Smith the best choice for the long term or are we just focused on one week at a time - which in itself is a very poor coaching philosophy

Yes he is an option - no I dont think he is the best

Dawson back is an option, however I’ve never seen him play a defensive role back there, playing him loose makes some sense though. However while everyone here is losing their mind about who plays our 4th defender spot, the reality is that Carlton have a midfield of Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett and Docherty. If we play Dawson back tomorrow then our midfield would consist of Soligo, Rankine, Peatling and Berry.

I'm slightly confused. You said Smith was playing on Cripps? Also - and again philosophy - we also have Cumming , Draper (if selected) Rachele .

I can promise you that it will make no difference who plays in the backline if we let that midfield get 65 unpressured inside 50’s against us.

Dawson isnt that much of a difference - Laird Smith and Milera will hobble around leaving Max and Josh plugging holes everywhere

I can see one of the 2 kids pinging a hammy

 

[Slime Roy]

Honestly changed my mind about this game Saturday, seeing Rory Laird and Brodie Smith line up again as the starting halfbacks in 2025 is going to be awesome, it will be just like when you used to see Tony McGuinness and Andrew Jarman lining up together again in the centre in the Slowdowns.

It’s like Nicks has set up his own throwback, ‘stars from the last semi successful Crows-era’ charity game. Nicks just needs to bring Fitzy & Guy Sebastian on in the last quarter.

And Lleyton!.. surely #1 Ticket Holder guarantees you a game in times of crisis like these.

 

[Hodgy]

Star of the comp for 14 years ??

Surely you're extracting the urine ??

These things are obviously subjective, however if I was picking a best ever Crows side then Hart, Johncock and Smith would be the obvious choices as mid sized defenders.

 

[MRB37]

I don't think Smith has ever been an elite kick. He's had a booming kick, which absolutely did open up the ground when he could use it and a big part of our 15/16/17 success, but I reckon his 1 wood is more of a 3 iron now, so what else is he providing us if not that?

Why would you play Nank on a HFF and Cumming on a wing, when you could play either at HB and avoid bringing Grandpa Smith in? Surely thats the move if you dont think Edwards/Ryan is ready? There was no need for them to even consider Smith.

Dawson could go back.
Cumming could go back
Nank could go back (instead of bloody HFF)

Give Peatling Crouch's minutes

Keep Sid in the side. Give Rash some CBA's.

Bring Berry in for inside cover, or bring Harry in for a sub role, or bring Hugh Bond in if you want a lockdown.

It just seems to me that bringing Smith in was not only unnecessary but also diminishes the side's versatility.

Nicks is opposed to change and wants consistency in the side, so I would hazard a guess he sees even shuffling the 22 around positionally would be at the level of actually making a player change to the 22 and wouldn't be considered. All his moves are thought up through the pre-season and once your role is determined, it's determined and won't change. He's not a creative coach and doesn't/can't make quick decisions on instinct/gut feel, which is why it takes 3 quarters for anything to change in a game.

Which is odd because they always hammer on about adaptability, adding to your game etc but then never actually want to show it all that much. Remember the pre-season of Sloane training across half-back talk and then he never spent a minute actually doing it.