Roast St Kilda in no mans land - Part 2

[The Nostradamus]

Saints in the worst position not rebuilding or challenging arguably furthest position away from a flag

Their youth is max king

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

and Clark cupboard is bare they struggle to develop their own so they overpay to get others like hill 900k and Hannebery on 700k

They topped up with Frawley and Ryder etc

Where to from here?

Part 1 here

Roast - St Kilda in no mans land

Saints in the worst position not rebuilding or challenging arguably furthest position away from a flag Their youth is max king and Clark cupboard is bare they struggle to develop their own so they overpay to get others like hill 900k and Hannebery on 700k They topped up with Frawley and Ryder...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[L_W_P]

Sliding Doors - could St Kilda conceivably have stuck it out at Moorabbin?

If so, they'd have the whole southern suburbs to themselves as a base. They'd have a definitive pod as a location.

I just feel like the AFL's era of "ground rationalisation" and the subsequent Docklands shenanigans have royally shafted some teams long term.

If the AFL weren't open to keeping Waverly then getting Moorabbin developed into a boutique stadium was an absolute pipedream.

Was only 15 years ago the Saints pulled out because of issues with the local council, funding, quality of the facility etc

The move to Seaford made sense from a business perspective but the players and coaches sooked it up and eventually the board pulled the plug.

Hindsight would say the best shot we had at off field development (out side of Moorabbin) would have been to go all in on Casey Fields.

Take over the Casey Saints VFL team. Base the AFLW team there. So exactly what Melbourne have done.

Then go after the growing Indian, Afghan & Sudanese migrant populations in the area. People brand new to the game rather than the 'dormant' fans down the Mornington Peninsula.

Pump a heap of cash into setting up the NGA pipeline through Casey and out into Gippsland.

As for on field:

If you believe the scuttlebutt Ratts was moved on because he was getting too close to the players. There was even talk of having a few too many casual beverages and training standards falling behind expectations.

Ross was brought in to reset those standards and squeeze more juice from a few of the lemons on the list.

We are clearly done with the Steele/RoMa/Sinclair generation and trying to transition to the likes of NWM, Pou, Owens & Wilson.

The clubs KPP stocks have to seriously be looked at. Playing with Sharman, Owens & Caminiti as the tall forwards just isn't sustainable.

Hopefully we can see young guys like Barrat & Tauru in the back half of the season because finals are very clearly way beyond our level.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Was only 15 years ago the Saints pulled out because of issues with the local council, funding, quality of the facility etc

Roo on Thurs/Fri told some stories about the old joint. Couldn't train in the weights room because of bees, a bit of roof flying into the ground when it was windy.

Seaford they had a food truck roll in.

 

[littlecreatures]

They have some young emerging talent though.
I'm a fan of Phillipou and definitely could become a big bodied midfielder in the future. Also a couple of other big bodied mids who could be anything in the next few years. Time is going to be needed in order to bring them up to speed.
Steele is only giving them 20 disposals & 5 clearances per game as is. He's hardly a dominant stalwart through the middle at the moment.
Macrae was a solid get. He's there to shoulder the burden while youngsters develop around him.

Let’s be honest, that’s probably on a good day right

 

[lethalsaints]

Putrid.

 

[Freomaniac]

If NWM heads back to SA they'll be in a world of pain

I don't think NWM will head back to Adelaide this season. Port or crows haven't got a lot to trade.

NWM is better off signing in a 4 year extension at the end of this season and becomes a free agent in his 8th year

 

[lethalsaints]

I don't think NWM will head back to Adelaide this season. Port or crows haven't got a lot to trade.

NWM is better off signing in a 4 year extension at the end of this season and becomes a free agent in his 8th year

He'd be insane to hang around. Just find a way to escape the shit show

 

[Daka]

I tipped WCE was one of the few, so predictable that St Kilda would lose this match.

 

[LuckyBounce!]

We will finish bottom 4 this year then we are out of no mans land and this thread can close soon

 

[Freomaniac]

He'd be insane to hang around. Just find a way to escape the shit show

Your overall squad isn't great. It's still a competitive squad on a good day.

It's a semi decent playing list. Not even in the stratosphere of bad sides Line Sydney of 1992-94, Carlton of 2002-07, or suns or GWS Port of 2012, eagles of 2022-24 or North Melbourne of 2020-2025.

It's hard to consistently win games with the saints situation.

Even though NWM is out of contract this season, it is better off for him and the saints to sign for 4 more years until 2029.

If NWM wanted out now, saints don't hold the cards.

 

[Freomaniac]

Why does this not surprise… it’s like you’re the Nick Suban of bigfooty.

Mate that's like taking a dump on the Collingwood magpies 1990 flag side. It's not an all time great side.

The 2002-03 grand final side Collingwood had was much better.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Mate that's like taking a dump on the Collingwood magpies 1990 flag side. It's not an all time great side.

The 2002-03 grand final side Collingwood had was much better.

WTF are you on about?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Let’s be honest, that’s probably on a good day right

Wrong, its close to his average this season..

 

[Obeanie1]

What ws surprising was Ross the Boss smiling away hqving a chuckle or three yesterday.

Strange look.

 

[steviewonder36]

I cant understand the reasoning behind rehiring Ross Lyon as coach. The Saints continue to struggle, and any rebuild at this stage is not working under him.

They are light years away from challenging for their 2nd premiership!

 

[demondavey]

Club has been cursed with its top picks the last decade or so:

Billings, McCartin, Clark and Coffield and now King.

Hard to argue they were poor picks at the time, but all of them have been proven to be failures of differing degrees.

Can take a decade to remedy when you butcher your first rounders like that. The good news is that recent selections appear to be excellent in Wilson, Collard, NWM and Owens - albeit an NGA pick. Too soon to tell on Travaglia and Taure obviously.

Well like Melbourne for many years you have an average culture. Success isn’t there and hasn’t been. Lyon isn’t the answer. Your executive needs to demand you get away from under the roof and looking better than your opponent in an artificial setting and start playing at the MCG.

Those picks aren’t necessarily bad, it’s that your environment isn’t great. Sacking Lyon is probably a discussion needing to be had.

 

[demondavey]

Sliding Doors - could St Kilda conceivably have stuck it out at Moorabbin?

If so, they'd have the whole southern suburbs to themselves as a base. They'd have a definitive pod as a location.

I just feel like the AFL's era of "ground rationalisation" and the subsequent Docklands shenanigans have royally shafted some teams long term.

Docklands is a nothing space. They need games at the G.

 

[demondavey]

I think so....

I mean 30-35,000 seats in Moorabbin oval is better financially than 50,000 at Docklands

The location isn’t feasible. Moorabbin is tucked away in between suburban side streets. There’s no way you could deal with the traffic pile up trying to get 35,000 people in. They’d have to build car parking. The local residents would veto it so fast.

 

[demondavey]

The issue St Kilda has is that they’ve missed the boat on two fronts; before suburbia exploded in Moorabbin they should have done a huge development there aka GMHBA. Now they’ve missed the boat and it’s become a training centre but they’re stuck playing home games at the Dome.

They missed doing it at Casey, although I don’t think local supporters would have swallowed driving out there albeit to a shiny new stadium. Someone mentioned acquiring the Casey VFL side. Idea is great but you’re asking all your fans to go to Casey fields. No train.

They need to get away from the Dome and somehow push for more MCG time. Play as many games as possible there. Now whilst the WB haven’t been hampered by this they have a far better head coach and off field network.

The last point is Ross Lyon. He was a great coach at St Kilda and Fremantle, taking them to GF but the game has passed him. The whole place needs an enormous review and I think they need a younger more progressive coach. They need to lean into the Collingwood, Brisbane, Geelong camps etc to try and find their next coach.

If certain clubs are the benchmark then St Kilda should be looking at them.

 

[jumperfan]

They need to get away from the Dome and somehow push for more MCG time. Play as many games as possible there. Now whilst the WB haven’t been hampered by this they have a far better head coach and off field network.

We've been pushing for this for years but we've only gone backwards in that regard.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

They are doing fine in reality. Its peoples over expectations that are the issue more then anything. They are clearly a bottom 4 side but the young brigade they have is very strong and developing well. Week in week out they are fielding one of the youngest teams in the comp and have a fair few who are looking like 200+ gamers. NWM, Byrnes, Windhager, Phillipou, Wilson, Garcia, Owens, Hall, Sharman, Travaglia, Collard. McLennan from yesterdays game is a good core and start.

In a few more drafts time they will be back in finals contention. People just need to be patient

 

[WillHayward]

The location isn’t feasible. Moorabbin is tucked away in between suburban side streets. There’s no way you could deal with the traffic pile up trying to get 35,000 people in. They’d have to build car parking. The local residents would veto it so fast.

Agree - but somewhere like Caulfield race track would definitely work for a 30,000 stadium that the Hawks, Tigers and Saints could share. Hawks and Tigers still use MCG for their bigger fixtures but Caulfield for games against Suns, Freo etc.

 

[WillHayward]

They are doing fine in reality. Its peoples over expectations that are the issue more then anything. They are clearly a bottom 4 side but the young brigade they have is very strong and developing well. Week in week out they are fielding one of the youngest teams in the comp and have a fair few who are looking like 200+ gamers. NWM, Byrnes, Windhager, Phillipou, Wilson, Garcia, Owens, Hall, Sharman, Travaglia, Collard. McLennan from yesterdays game is a good core and start.

In a few more drafts time they will be back in finals contention. People just need to be patient

Yeah but by the time these blokes are reliable AFL players they also lose a bunch of good players - Marshall, Sinclair, Wilkie, Webster, Wood.

The main problem as I see it is the Saints dont have anything much in the 24-28 age category. Thats a very big hole. Youngsters coming up arent going to be enough.

 

[GAS PANIC]

I can't see them getting more MCG games with both the AFL keen to keep it's Docklands owned stadium afloat and larger drawing teams also looking for greater MCG access.

 

[WillHayward]

The good news is that recent selections appear to be excellent in Wilson, Collard, NWM and Owens - albeit an NGA pick. Too soon to tell on Travaglia and Taure obviously.

This is fanciful fairytale stuff.

Collard 9 games - average 6 disposals, 1.7 tackles and 0.7 goals. Mostly absent and way too small. Avoids body contact.
Wilson having some serious 2nd year blues. Struggling this season to get the ball.
NWM - excellent. For sure.
Owens - good but goes missing and unclear what his role is.