List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[Joffaboy]

Okay bipolar Lola. Funny how your favourite idiot Gags could still spend half our cap on Hanners, Hill, Howard and Ryder.

You tell me to ignore the stated figures in the media but take Stagro's figures as gospel. Giving an extra $200k each to Windy and Nas is a lot better investment than 20% of the salary cap for 7 years on a B grader in a position that we don't need and a C grade project key back that isn't that tall.

You keep going off like a chihuahua on a RedBull bender though.

Hungover I see.
You will be the first to scream when the SC is maxed in 3 years and Tauru and Phillipou gets poached.
If nothing you are consistent in your misery
Love you long time sweetheart.

 

[Joffaboy]

I really liked him. My preferred picks were Langford, Murphy Reid and Shanahan. It was one hell of a draft and a good week for those guys.

Reid was a favourite of mine, hopefully Trav comes good but think we will regret not going for Reid

 

[botts]

Blanket ban on rumours about nas’ contract until we get something concrete. Either that or I should just bloody log off.

 

[MordySaint]

Hungover I see.
You will be the first to scream when the SC is maxed in 3 years and Tauru and Phillipou gets poached.
If nothing you are consistent in your misery
Love you long time sweetheart.

Don't agree, Windy has done his time and deserves a decent cut of the pie NOW.

Tauru hasn't even proved himself yet, not sure why he's being used as a reference.

This is the approach that lost us Battle, and its not working.

 

[The Cobra]

Just pay him the money and give him the armband.

He's the future.

Yep - we have developed this guy, super hard trainer, sets standards and a leader.

Can tag, play on ball, wing or half back. His disposal has been a bit iffy at times but much better the last 6 weeks or so. Looks to me like he has arrived. His magnet would be glued to the selection board.

And we might be about to watch him walk out the door because we can find an extra 150K somehow? Only at the Saints!

 

[mad-saint-guy]

He's very similar to Marshall in that he tends to win his own ball and dump kick forward without much of a plan.

The real advantage might come if they re introduced the run up in the ruck dual but give it three months and a the first ACL and the AFL are likely to change it back.

We built a ruck set up for the third man up and they changed it all on us.

He is similar to Marshall in some ways, but realistically he's not as good as Marshall. They're both useless in any role other than number one ruck, but Ro is a better mark, is more consistent and is better at floating forward for a goal. He also costs half the salary compared to the proposed TDK offer. They're both average tap ruckman and love a dump kick clearance.

Crucially, he likely has a few good years left and would be finishing up at the perfect time to hand the reigns over to Dodson.

 

[Minga]

Not sold on the idea that TDK isn't worth acquiring for cap space yet. A good handful of years younger than Marshall, and a good buffer before hopefully Doddy becomes the real deal.

I tend to not bother thinking of salary because the reality is none of us really understand how the list managers and handling the cap, and all the ins and outs involved with payments/incentives/ambassador/front-end/banking cap etc so the best you can do is have faith they are taking appropriate risks without jeopardizing the list. The media will make a big deal out of anything they can, money is a great headline, and pundits will parrot them because it's easy.

Unfortunately the only way to test TDK is to actually bring him in, see how he plays in our system, with our coaches, our players. Even just a change of scene can go a long way. No denying he had an aura about him in first half of the season. It's very plausible that he is just checked out right now. Can go both ways obviously (see Dan Houston

9

Dan Houston

Age

28

Ht

186cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.0

5star

MG

289.2

4star

D

17.6

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.4

4star

MG

319.9

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.2

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

279.8

5star

at pies), but there is every chance that it's also a risk that pays off well... and what's at risk? Banked cap space that no other FA will take? Agitating Marshall? Having to trade Dodson? These are problems a good list manager should want.

Personally, I'm daring to dream we can nail this off-season, and that's not blind optimism, it's off the back of several strong off seasons since 2021 that signal an opportunity at developing a list/gameplan/culture that can go beyond anything we've had since 2010. It'll always be on a knife's edge, that's just the reality of elite sport, so I say enjoy it for what it is, if you can.

 

[Lightsxo]

If Marcus Windhager is asking for 850k then we wish him the best and get a first for him in a trade.

Basically telling the comp we have money to burn re TDK has made agents go insane lol

 

[Diehard Saint]

The AFL and TV fixtures went teams on the up or playing attractive footy. When we have had good years we get good time slots and better match ups. GC keep teasing that they are about to burst out but if they can't perform they'll lose patience with them again.

Imperative to sign Nas, he's a hype player and already making himself into a one man show. The TV networks wants those guys that neutrals will tune in to watch play. He will bump attendance and TV viewership. He's a cash cow.

You mean like Essendon and Carlton.

Granted, it’s not always easy to predict ahead of time who is going to be up and about and who isn’t ( Crows for example) - that’s why you share it around and and least try to make it equal.

 

[True Believer]

Yep - we have developed this guy, super hard trainer, sets standards and a leader.

Can tag, play on ball, wing or half back. His disposal has been a bit iffy at times but much better the last 6 weeks or so. Looks to me like he has arrived. His magnet would be glued to the selection board.

And we might be about to watch him walk out the door because we can find an extra 150K somehow? Only at the Saints!

Who said he's about to walk out the door?

 

[Diehard Saint]

Apparently we did a presentation to Nas about our future 18 and didn’t include Windy - all speculation.

If he and Nas leave, RSEA Park may be in trouble. Together with Pou and Hugo, they are the heart and soul of our rebuild.

According to a radio journo in WA

 

[Joffaboy]

You mean like Essendon and Carlton.

Granted, it’s not always easy to predict ahead of time who is going to be up and about and who isn’t ( Crows for example) - that’s why you share it around and and least try to make it equal.

Always conveniently forgotten. Neither have been near a Granny in qtr of a century, Essendon hadn't won a final since 2002 and they continue to get prime time.
Anyway MoFo's I'm off to Kenya to go on Safari, will check in occasionally, make sure you lot have this NAZ and Windy shit sorted by the time I get back or I will hold you all personally responsible.

 

[ThomasR]

Mini about to hurt their priority picks submissions

The existence of the mid season draft should put an end to the priority pick discussion IMO, remembering that it didn't exist when priority picks were in vogue.

West Coast have already been given an extra opportunity to draft the best over-age player in the country in McCarthy and he looks an absolute jet.

The only concession should be allowing struggling clubs to open an extra list spot or two for the MSD even if they have no LTIs

 

[Diehard Saint]

Always conveniently forgotten. Neither have been near a Granny in qtr of a century, Essendon hadn't won a final since 2002 and they continue to get prime time.
Anyway MoFo's I'm off to Kenya to go on Safari, will check in occasionally, make sure you lot have this NAZ and Windy shit sorted by the time I get back or I will hold you all personally responsible.

Enjoy.
Lucky you, escaping this asylum.

 

[beside the seaside]

Just listening to the Dilena interview again, it's such an interesting situation with Nas. We obviously feel that we are in a negotiation and don't want to be forced to pay too much. The SA clubs have offered him 2 million or something - it's amazing that they can just do that without really having the means to pay for him in a trade. But Williams is trying to make us match their offers or go over them to keep him.

Not sure there's much we can do but pay up eventually.

 

[AFaiL]

If Marcus Windhager is asking for 850k then we wish him the best and get a first for him in a trade.

Basically telling the comp we have money to burn re TDK has made agents go insane lol

The legue avg salary is circa $650k over the next number of years..... Windy is above average and thus $850 is fair

I think some people forget the salary cap goes up every year

 

[AFaiL]

Local boy, best mates at the club, loyal, part of our next generation (not meaning academy) and immensely talented. So SOS and co lowballed him. Hopefully just testing market to use in negotiations but we have absolutely fumbled the ball with him. Apparently we did a presentation to Nas about our future 18 and didn’t include Windy - all speculation.

If he and Nas leave, RSEA Park may be in trouble. Together with Pou and Hugo, they are the heart and soul of our rebuild.

Windy is the exact player Ross loves and he has not missed a game this year from memory.

Of all the moving pieces, he would be my most surprising if he left. Especially considering nobody knew who he was 2 months ago- until they realised he lives with Nas. Funny, that.

What we all tend to forget is that St Kilda is the permanent whipping boy of the AFL community, media and board included. They love us being shit, they do not want us to succeed. So, any possible way they can manipulate that, they will.

 

[ThomasR]

If Marcus Windhager is asking for 850k then we wish him the best and get a first for him in a trade.

Basically telling the comp we have money to burn re TDK has made agents go insane lol

I would think it is less to do with TDK and more to do with what other clubs are offering him

By my count Nas and Windy are the only two players in the 22under22 squad who are unsigned

Losing Nas may be inevitable but Windy feels like a real bellwether as to whether the list management is doing a remotely competent job

If 850k truly is his market rate then we need to get our offer into the same ballpark and keep him

 

[botts]

What do you reckon the footy club would do if Williams said “it’s 2 mill” a year or he’s leaving” reckon we do it? Even if it’s just for two year and he leaves at least the SA clubs will have better assets. Might be worth it

 

[Nutsngum]

The legue avg salary is circa $650k over the next number of years..... Windy is above average and thus $850 is fair

I think some people forget the salary cap goes up every year

Its around the 500k mark at the moment and is only going up about 10% by 2027 from what google is bringing up. I would guess that Windhager is being offered in the 600k range but is seeking closer to that 850 but Is that kind of money suitable for current B grade player? Dont get me wrong, I really rate Windhager and I can see him being genuine A grade but he ain't there yet. (He is making a case for it though and I reckon the deal gets done at a compromise.)


Its also why I really think there's a massive amount of inflated figures being bandied around in almost every player salary discussion. Compared to what the genuine average is for best 25 players the figures thrown around a very out of whack and from what ex club people say the media reports are very very optimistic.

 

[bergholt]

The legue avg salary is circa $650k over the next number of years..... Windy is above average and thus $850 is fair

I think some people forget the salary cap goes up every year

It's a fair point, our anchoring on salaries is often out of date.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Not sold on the idea that TDK isn't worth acquiring for cap space yet. A good handful of years younger than Marshall, and a good buffer before hopefully Doddy becomes the real deal.

I tend to not bother thinking of salary because the reality is none of us really understand how the list managers and handling the cap, and all the ins and outs involved with payments/incentives/ambassador/front-end/banking cap etc so the best you can do is have faith they are taking appropriate risks without jeopardizing the list. The media will make a big deal out of anything they can, money is a great headline, and pundits will parrot them because it's easy.

Unfortunately the only way to test TDK is to actually bring him in, see how he plays in our system, with our coaches, our players. Even just a change of scene can go a long way. No denying he had an aura about him in first half of the season. It's very plausible that he is just checked out right now. Can go both ways obviously (see Dan Houston at pies), but there is every chance that it's also a risk that pays off well... and what's at risk? Banked cap space that no other FA will take? Agitating Marshall? Having to trade Dodson? These are problems a good list manager should want.

Personally, I'm daring to dream we can nail this off-season, and that's not blind optimism, it's off the back of several strong off seasons since 2021 that signal an opportunity at developing a list/gameplan/culture that can go beyond anything we've had since 2010. It'll always be on a knife's edge, that's just the reality of elite sport, so I say enjoy it for what it is, if you can.

I wouldn't be too hard on TDK , if people did some research they would see he started off the season on fire and has dropped off during the year , just wondering in if in carrying some injury , You just don't lose ability overnight

 

[BrutThough]

According to a radio journo in WA

Doesnt matter who reported it, any news that Windhaller isn't seen as best 22 is a big story.

 

[Remboy]

What do you reckon the footy club would do if Williams said “it’s 2 mill” a year or he’s leaving” reckon we do it? Even if it’s just for two year and he leaves at least the SA clubs will have better assets. Might be worth it

If we could get a guarantee that $2 mill would keep him at the club they'd probably find a way to do it. Problem is that his manager just seems to be stuffing around without making a commitment either way.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I think I found the exact moment when we should've realised that SOS would be no good as a list manager

View attachment 2392040

Another head canon