List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[Tommy Wigs]

I literally can't believe you spent all that time writing a post no one is going to read

You go to new heights everyday.

Looking forward to more xoxo

Which can be entirely the problem. Port Adelaide supporter levels of reading or willingness to read and comprehend.

 

[Joffaboy]

4.7 mill each year for 2 years is a shitload of money for just 3 players

But it isn't 4.7 million, it has been explained to you numerous times but you chose to ignore it.

 

[Gavinmitchell11]

Yeah Jobe is a great get at 30, Murphy Reid a great take at 17, so was Boxshall at 45 and Dodson @ 53. Win some lose some.

Ideally we took Tauru at 7 then traded 8 for picks where we nabbed Reid and Shanahan. I agree, Shanahan looks very good, better than Most taken before him.

 

[JimmyR20]

On the topic of overpaying players.

Pretty happy we're not the club paying Battle 900k p.a.

 

[Goofy975]

Ideally we took Tauru at 7 then traded 8 for picks were we nabbed Reid and Shanahan. I agree, Shanahan looks very good, better than Most taken before him.

Such a shame Shanahan is a Saint's fan and exactly who we needed right now

 

[Joffaboy]

Ideally we took Tauru at 7 then traded 8 for picks were we nabbed Reid and Shanahan. I agree, Shanahan looks very good, better than Most taken before him.

We did try to trade one of the top ten picks for two late frdps but there were no takers. Think we were keen on both Reid and Shanahan ( and a few others).

 

[Sully111]

This back and forth is ridiculous.

I'm very happy Nas signed. I'm concerned Windy hasn't... hopeful he will.

I'll celebrate properly when we start playing good, consistent footy. Everything until then is all just piss and wind.

 

[beside the seaside]

On the topic of overpaying players.

Pretty happy we're not the club paying Battle 900k p.a.

He has been very good for the Hawks

 

[SaintBenny]

I started following the Saints in 1996, so I was just old enough to see Fitzroy fold (that last game against Freo was one of the saddest things I've seen in sport).

Yeah I used to be a Fitzroy fan as a kid. Didn't fancy following Brisbane...

 

[CaptainRisky]

FWIW, I agree entirely on the inaccurate comparison with Jackson.

I think the ceiling comparison given the way Dodson looks would be more like Dean Cox

Christ you would be happy if he was as good as him , he was a Gun , a genuine Gun

 

[Saintbloke]

Sorry - patently untrue.

Most of us were completely sick of them.
Certainly I was, and thrilled that that we got Ross back. Still am.
Yes, we’ve gone backwards short term, we have pretty much a completely different, much younger list and blind Freddy can see we have a lot more promise than we had. And that we’re moving in the right direction.

Richo has had his day, so needed to go, though I thought Ratten would stay another year, just had a bad run of midfield injuries and lost Paddy to unexpected personal reasons for a period which cost us a few games that year IMO, but that's history and the AFL is ruthless. As far as Lyon goes, I don't think it's short term going backwards..it's going backwards- we looked more promising later last season than this season which has been quite poor as a follow up.

 

[gringo2011]

He'll take Howard's spot, if his hamstrings continue to go twang.
I don't overly rate Aleer either, but he will be important depth at the least.
And at 24y.o, there is hopefully still development in him & we have Enright to teach him some tricks.
And we actually are short in the Ruck.
Heath & Dodson have shown potential, not proven yet.

He doesn't look like a tall stopper which is what we I think we need to replace Howard....unless Hammer keeps developing. Aleer looks more like a third tall interceptor in his ideal role. Perhaps it's for life after Wilkie that we are taking him. I imaging Tauru is the designated third tall interceptor longer term.

 

[gringo2011]

Sorry - patently untrue.

Most of us were completely sick of them.
Certainly I was, and thrilled that that we got Ross back. Still am.
Yes, we’ve gone backwards short term, we have pretty much a completely different, much younger list and blind Freddy can see we have a lot more promise than we had. And that we’re moving in the right direction.

Mowman, Triggering Bro and a heap of others used to get pulled up every time they'd criticise them. You might have been one of the good ones but plenty of the ones liking your post are the loudest voices for maintaining the status quo no matter how bad it is.

I agree we are on a better path. Lyon has structured the football department to a professional standard. His coaching is a bit of a watch still but he has brought in standards and structure.

The list has been stripped back and a lot of quality kids have been drafted in and hopefully with better development and a proper recruiter we have built a really fruitful future.

I'm not down on the club but I'll always push for utopia, not just good enough. There is no reason you can't achieve something close to the best practice even as a small club. You have to do it creatively though. Geelong under Costa had that mindset and are the best run club in the league by so far it's not funny.

It isn't spending money, it's always striving for better and planning for the next tilt. A lot of those posters take any criticism or suggestions for improvement as an insult and get nasty.

 

[Remboy]

On the topic of overpaying players.

Pretty happy we're not the club paying Battle 900k p.a.

Or Gresham $800k.

 

[gringo2011]

if he improves again over the preseason then Hall could be.
Showed some A grade glimpses this year.

I'd say he's already A grade. Hard to argue that he's not in our top 5 players this year. He plays as a high half forward which is really an extension of the midfield these days. Even if he doesn't line up inside the centre he's coming up with the play.

His rise has been absolutely extraordinary. I watched him at the BHHs when we were going to pick him up and thought he looked okay but I could never have imagined how well he'd adapt to the AFL. I remember a guy came on here saying that he was equal to Soligo as a junior and that we'd grabbed a beauty. Thought it was a bit much but he's a massive win.

These are the list build wins that you need to move up quickly. Incredible that again our mid season and rookie drafts are doing the heavy lifting.

 

[gringo2011]

We talk about Nas's elite kicking, but unlike Nas, l didn't see Hall miss targets too often

It's a bit different. Nas is taking on the absolutely dangerous ones that rip then field open but have zero margin for error. Hall is deft touching kicks to set up guys inside 50. Not discounting his talent, they are a very nice combo. If you were a forward you'd love having those guys pumping the ball inside 50.

 

[gringo2011]

FWIW, I agree entirely on the inaccurate comparison with Jackson.

I think the ceiling comparison given the way Dodson looks would be more like Dean Cox

Possibly. He's a bit heavier legged than Jackson but he does the job. His ability to play as a scoring threat is probably the comparison. He looks more of a genuine goal kicking threat than Cox. His hands are exceptional for a big guy. Sticky in the air and clean touch.

He looks like a guy that can play in multiple roles. Perhaps ironically the closest player might be a TDK type.

 

[Mangus]

The one advantage we have over the competition right now is our Salary cap space and this was a deliberate plan that has been in place over the past few years. Pay under the cap and build the capacity to overpay, front end contracts etc. Go to the draft multiple years and build the base on minimum rookie contracts then use that space to attract free agents.

It was time to use the advantage we have built or we were going to lose it. Given some of that advantage is being spent retaining a star rather than enticing a new recruit. But still impressive that we can pay Nas $2 Million and still have room for TDK and Aleer and Ryan etc.

You can argue that we are targeting the wrong players with this cash but the money needs to be spent or we lose the advantage and gain nothing. End of the day these are the players we could get to bite, the others we offered the big dollars too all chose to stay.

Maybe it all blows up and SOS doesn’t know how to use a calculator and maybe none of TDK Aleer and Ryan are any good and I have my doubts particularly on Ryan and how the Marshall TDK pairing works or doesn’t but at the end of the day I am happy because:

1. At least they have a clear plan and strategy
2. They are sticking to that plan
3. The plan continues to build from the Draft which is where genuine long term success comes from
4. The Drafting since 2001 and the NAS Draft is in my opinion very good
5. We are disrupting the market - the new top end price has gone up to 2 to 2.5 Million that is going to impact every club now we are prepared and can afford it others maybe not
6. We are now starting to get support for the un-compromised draft - Geelong and North now weighing in and the AFL floating the idea again disrupting all our competitors

President says it is time to take some risks jump on board

 

[gringo2011]

Ideally we took Tauru at 7 then traded 8 for picks where we nabbed Reid and Shanahan. I agree, Shanahan looks very good, better than Most taken before him.

It would have been a brave move. We just need at least one of our kids to be a star. Usually you don't get the full picture for 5+ years.

Jaiden Stephenson looked like the best player in his draft early on. Lewis Taylor won the rising star award. Just need to be patient and hope.

2017 AFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[stavro#4]

Ideally we took Tauru at 7 then traded 8 for picks where we nabbed Reid and Shanahan. I agree, Shanahan looks very good, better than Most taken before him.

As was discussed to death at the time.

The draft had a top 7 of quality - all the mids we missed and Tauru.

And then the next 10 or so picks of equal quality.

It’s why we could split 8 and the only offers were like Norths Future first. Moving the pick out.

People are waaaaaayyyyy to quick to write off Travaglia. He was very good in the champs against very good players. He needs a couple of seasons to build a body to go with his aerobic capacity. He also needs to learn about AFL level structures and learnings.

 

[stavro#4]

He doesn't look like a tall stopper which is what we I think we need to replace Howard....unless Hammer keeps developing. Aleer looks more like a third tall interceptor in his ideal role. Perhaps it's for life after Wilkie that we are taking him. I imaging Tauru is the designated third tall interceptor longer term.

He looks like a 24 game tall defender. If you believe you can teach him the craft of really good backs like Wilkie. He has all the tools

 

[PJays]

5. We are disrupting the market - the new top end price has gone up to 2 to 2.5 Million that is going to impact every club now we are prepared and can afford it others maybe not

I'm not sure what this means long-term.

Clearly with Nas, Port were offering huge money and St Kilda had to compete. Even Adelaide had a big offer. And Nas has proven himself. I have no issue with us paying $2mil. Even if it'd been a longer deal.

But there remains a possibility that teams like, say, Geelong will remain disciplined and refuse to pay as much extra, instead relying on their natural advantages.

If the gap between what desperate clubs pay (Port - Butters, WC - Reid, Saints - Nas & TDK) vs what Geelong, etc pay grows (and grows relative to the salary cap in percentage terms) and if those new deals don't bear fruit long-term in terms of value for money, then there's the possibility that the change only exacerbates the inequality in the competition and increases the value of natural advantages held by other clubs.

 

[stavro#4]

I'm not sure what this means long-term.

Clearly with Nas, Port were offering huge money and St Kilda had to compete. And Nas has proven himself. I have no issue with us paying $2mil. Even if it'd been a longer deal.

But there remains a possibility that teams like, say, Geelong will remain disciplined and refuse to pay as much extra, instead relying on their natural advantages.

If the gap between what desperate clubs pay (Port - Butters, WC - Reid, Saints - Nas & TDK) vs what Geelong, etc pay grows (and grows relative to the salary cap in percentage terms) and if those new deals don't bear fruit long-term in terms of value for money, then there's the possibility that the change only exacerbates the inequality in the competition and increases the value of natural advantages held by other clubs.

You think if most clubs start paying marquee players $2m a season that Geelong won’t be getting close to those numbers for say Holmes?

It would be very hard to see players turning down $500k+ a season to play for Geelong.

 

[jimmytigs]

I started following the Saints in 1996, so I was just old enough to see Fitzroy fold (that last game against Freo was one of the saddest things I've seen in sport).

i was at the saints crows game at waverley the day before,we played fitzroy in the reserves,cant even recall the result of that game,but when it ended a whole lot of people got up and started walking up the aisles,looked odd,usually a few get up for a piss or a can of beer,but this was like a crowd leaving,then i saw they were all fitzroy fans,didnt even notice them before that,must have been the ones that couldnt afford to get to perth or were hopping a flight that evening,didnt even stay to watch what unbelievably would turn out to be a prevue of the following seasons grand final,between the 10th and 12th teams,that was also a pretty sad sight

 

[gringo2011]

He looks like a 24 game tall defender. If you believe you can teach him the craft of really good backs like Wilkie. He has all the tools

I'm not convinced but weirder things have happened. I've never been a big fan of turning athletes into players and defenders like Wilkie are instinct over instruction. I'm not sure it's an education thing.

We'll see, Aleer looks exciting but leaks goals and looks a bit lost in the field. Lyon's golden era was a bunch of good players that were as disciplined as any defence in the league. They relied on a holding structure. Defence is more of a mix of zone with isolation on the turnover to attack off HB now.

Our back 6 looks the most suspect line now. Hammer looked okay at times but last few weeks looks like he's getting turned inside out without support. Wilkie and Sincs are elite. Tauru has started to look really shaky with his kicking and looks a bit tired. Stocker is all heart but a bit of plain Jane.

I don't think taking Tauru out and sticking Aleer in makes a huge difference. Howard staying fit and moving Hammer out and Aleer for Tauru are probably a 20% upgrade on the current back 6. I'd love a bit more tall stopper support.