List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[stavro#4]

Interesting, i kind of feel the same way about Flanders. But he's a good player and if what everyone is saying about this draft is accurate, i think getting Ryan and Flanders for the first pick looks like a win.

The meters gained stat is irrelevant for the role I envision he will play.

We don’t really have that ball pig with great disposal that brings his team mates into the game and gets the runners into space.

Macrae did a really good job early in the year and we looked fantastic off the back of it. Then he tailed off.

Lachie Neale is elite for example. But low meters gained. Most weeks he is sub 500. But amazing at winning the pill and getting mcluggage Zorko Rayner Bailey ashcrofts etc into space.

Our equivalent would be feed Nas Sinclair Pou Wilson Hall Hill etc.

Potentially Flyin Ryan Cmac

 

[CaptainRisky]

Nothing very useful but just an FYI

Have asked around about Cam

Hawks want to extend him beyond his current contract (end of 2026) and a few weeks ago he was telling family he wanted to stay despite lack of game time

This was BEFORE St Kilda’s interest was leaked into the media today

Will get updates when Hawks season ends and he has exit interview

I was told a month ago he wanted out and that the saints were keen,

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

The Korn being nice to us? Whats going on there.

 

[Diehard Saint]

So updating this we can now add C-Mac (1st rounder).

IMO all of them is too much recycled change and likely for very little if any improvement.

TDK is done, IMO Roma has to be traded out (and ideally if we can use the Roma pick on Flanders then Roma becomes Flanders and TDK, thats a win)
One of JSOS OR Aleer, not both (noting Aleer makes more sense to me strcuturally and athletically but JSOS is free)
Ryan only if its a 3rd rounder, if its anymore we should walk (noting we dont have a second rounder this year anyway)
C-Mac is a no, unless we can get him for a future second, a first given Windy, Garcia, Boxxy etc etc hes not worth it.

I worry about what bringing 6 guys who will all expect to be starting 22 does for the culture and core group of kids weve got now (and yeh i know competition for spots etc etc but its a bit of a slap in the face to the likes of Garcia and Boxxy and co to trade a first round pick for a guy who will take their spots in spite of showing nothing more than any of them).

I hope we would walk from C-Mac and Ryan if the asking price is too high as a minimum.

It is pretty cool to actually be a club with some buzz though, been a long time.

Yep.
Wholesale change like this - had crossed my mind whether it would be a little destabilising. That’s also a third of the best 22 ( presumably) having to learn a new game plan.

 

[stavro#4]

So updating this we can now add C-Mac (1st rounder).

IMO all of them is too much recycled change and likely for very little if any improvement.

TDK is done, IMO Roma has to be traded out (and ideally if we can use the Roma pick on Flanders then Roma becomes Flanders and TDK, thats a win)
One of JSOS OR Aleer, not both (noting Aleer makes more sense to me strcuturally and athletically but JSOS is free)
Ryan only if its a 3rd rounder, if its anymore we should walk (noting we dont have a second rounder this year anyway)
C-Mac is a no, unless we can get him for a future second, a first given Windy, Garcia, Boxxy etc etc hes not worth it.

I worry about what bringing 6 guys who will all expect to be starting 22 does for the culture and core group of kids weve got now (and yeh i know competition for spots etc etc but its a bit of a slap in the face to the likes of Garcia and Boxxy and co to trade a first round pick for a guy who will take their spots in spite of showing nothing more than any of them).

I hope we would walk from C-Mac and Ryan if the asking price is too high as a minimum.

It is pretty cool to actually be a club with some buzz though, been a long time.

You are very low on cmac.

Elite kick. Looks every bit a 21 year old Max Hall. With probably a bigger scope to develop into a mid.

Those damaging half forwards are very important these days.

 

[Leap of Faith]

Ryan makes sense if Ross is of the opinion that Butler isn't giving what we need and Collard isn't ready

I don't understand why people are entertaining the idea of Ryan as a worthwhile one. He's a small forward. Has averaged a goal a game for the last four years. That would translate to a 22 or 23 goal year. Played 56 games out of a possible 92. Red flag right there. Why would you invest in a player like that who'll be 29 in October? Cgaf about speccies or flashes of brilliance. That will be Collard just give him a couple more years. Reckon if we're genuinely going for Ryan it will bite us on the arse. If so it needs to be cheap as chips. Really hope we're not considering investing some draft capital of value for a guy like that.

 

[stavro#4]

The Korn being nice to us? Whats going on there.

My opinion, I think everyone has had to step back with the news over the last few days and when you start putting those names on our list, you see a senior side that bats roughly 35 deep at any given selection. You have clear defined roles for each player and an abundance of youth with high potential next to more seasoned names - and yes the gamble on TDK

But it’s hard not to tip your hat at the aggression in the market and what it could look like.

 

[gringo2011]

I see no justification for trading out our 1st this year, GC won't want it and it's too high a price for Flanders anyway. He's a clear case for a future 1st probably with some junk back our way.
That means we only need cobble together enough for Ryan which shouldn't be too much of a challenge.
Minimum draftees is 2 so lets say Pou2 and Fincher, we'll need 6 off the list.

Boyd
Gus
Jones
Cordy
Jimmy

Leaves only 1 more to trade/delist, probably Monty given that he'd be outside the best 22 at that point.

Flanders had the second highest disposals average last year. 4th in SC scores, 78.8 disposal efficiency, 2nd in effective disposals per game, higher clearance average than Max Holmes and Finn Calaghan last year etc.

If he was at a Vic club he'd be two FRDPs even after a bit of a down year.

 

[gringo2011]

That really was diabolical list management. Caldwell should have known that Crouch was coming and we should have sold it to him as a partnership

We couldn't afford both.

 

[tomjoad]

It’s really not hard to know. We’ve seen 5 and 8 seasons of Carrol and Dow respectively, neither is close to Caldwell. Carroll was doing well in the VFL this season, meanwhile Caldwell was playing great in the AFL. Caldwell is a B+ player with A potential, Carroll and Dow are C- at best.

That's fine for you all tucked away down there. I'm in Ireland and don't get to see what you do.
You didn't know that, so I won't hold it against you.
Whatever about Dow, but I thought the backstory to Carroll was that he wasn't getting opportunity in Carlton despite having played well.
His time with us hasn't gone to plan due to injury...the limited footage I've seen of him looks like he has at least some tricks and potential. Whether the club thinks the same is yet to be determined.
As for Caldwell, he plays for Essendon which effectively makes him not much more than a twat.

 

[phantom13]

You are very low on cmac.

Elite kick. Looks every bit a 21 year old Max Hall. With probably a bigger scope to develop into a mid.

Those damaging half forwards are very important these days.

Im not really low on him i just dont wanna trade out two firsts and i think Flanders makes more sense for need.

FA and drafting cant just be about nice players, its gotta fill gaps, i dont think C-Mac fills any gap and then lay it back into 6 new guys into a 22, who does he push out, what do they bring.

TDK
One of Flanders/CMac (not both)
One of Aleer/JSOS
Ryan for the right price

Anymore and were getting into ridiculous territory

 

[John2010362340]

The meters gained stat is irrelevant for the role I envision he will play.

We don’t really have that ball pig with great disposal that brings his team mates into the game and gets the runners into space.

Macrae did a really good job early in the year and we looked fantastic off the back of it. Then he tailed off.

Lachie Neale is elite for example. But low meters gained. Most weeks he is sub 500. But amazing at winning the pill and getting mcluggage Zorko Rayner Bailey ashcrofts etc into space.

Our equivalent would be feed Nas Sinclair Pou Wilson Hall Hill etc.

Potentially Flyin Ryan Cmac

Neale is a good comp at the same age.

Statically speaking Flanders out shines Neal considerably at the same age. Those 6 weeks last year were something pretty special statically. Obviously if he can get in the same stratosphere as Neale it would be a massive win!

 

[stavro#4]

Im not really low on him i just dont wanna trade out two firsts and i think Flanders makes more sense for need.

FA and drafting cant just be about nice players, its gotta fill gaps, i dont think C-Mac fills any gap and then lay it back into 6 new guys into a 22, who does he push out, what do they bring.

TDK
One of Flanders/CMac (not both)
One of Aleer/JSOS
Ryan for the right price

Anymore and were getting into ridiculous territory

I think we can do 5.

TDK (FA)
JSOS/Aleer (prefer JSOS as he is a FA)
Ryan
Cmac
Flanders.

I think we can get all 3 done using our first this year and one of Marshall/Steele


Anymore than 5 and I’m not sure how it happens as it would require 3+ player exits from our end.

Retain 2026 first as I think we max the cap and hit the draft.

2027 reset with all the major earners bar TDK OOC

 

[gringo2011]

In my view he is just a b player, nothing more.

He looked really good this year but resilience looking like a problem now. His best looks elite but if he can't get on the park he's no good.

 

[phantom13]

That's fine for you all tucked away down there. I'm in Ireland and don't get to see what you do.
You didn't know that, so I won't hold it against you.
Whatever about Dow, but I thought the backstory to Carroll was that he wasn't getting opportunity in Carlton despite having played well.
His time with us hasn't gone to plan due to injury...the limited footage I've seen of him looks like he has at least some tricks and potential. Whether the club thinks the same is yet to be determined.
As for Caldwell, he plays for Essendon which effectively makes him not much more than a twat.

Dow still has something worth seeing, he has had a shocking run with injury but it does look like alot of guys may have gone past him.

To me if were still talking about trading firsts for CMac and Flanders then i dont really get why were keeping Caroll and Dow tbh.

 

[stavro#4]

Dow still has something worth seeing, he has had a shocking run with injury but it does look like alot of guys may have gone past him.

To me if were still talking about trading firsts for CMac and Flanders then i dont really get why were keeping Caroll and Dow tbh.

Dow was a good will re-signing. Don’t think that’s unfair.

Carroll will be waiting to see how the next 2 months plays out

 

[phantom13]

I think we can do 5.

TDK (FA)
JSOS/Aleer (prefer JSOS as he is a FA)
Ryan
Cmac
Flanders.

I think we can get all 3 done using our first this year and one of Marshall/Steele


Anymore than 5 and I’m not sure how it happens as it would require 3+ player exits from our end.

Retain 2026 first as I think we max the cap and hit the draft.

2027 reset with all the major earners bar TDK OOC

I can probably live with that but i also got howled down by plenty on here for suggesting we trade Roma.

Id prefer we dump this years first OR the Roma pick for Flanders and try to get mini Pou and then keep next years.

If we wind up with no firsts this or next year then i think its a mistake.

Agree with you on the agression, were clearly a destination club at the moment, gotta strike while the irons hot, i just hope were being considered and not just jumping at every 6/10

 

[phantom13]

Dow was a good will re-signing. Don’t think that’s unfair.

Carroll will be waiting to see how the next 2 months plays out

To be clear, im on board with Dow re signing, i cant say i get it if were also then gonna trade all our draft capital for two more mids.

You need depth etc etc but theres a point where it becomes a bit redundant

 

[The Punter]

We've already delisted four.

Windy is the one we still want to re-sign before trade period, but I think the others (Jones, Byrnes, Carroll, Heath, Schoenmaker) are now in the wait and see camp until we see what we can shake out from trade period.

 

[beside the seaside]

Mackenzie reminds me of Sam Mitchell.. really classy player. I don't see the Hawks giving him up. Flanders seems a much more realistic target.

I'd like us to keep our first this year. It's in a really nice spot in the draft and there'll be good players there.

Hard to know what to make or the Silvagni Jnr stuff. I'd be shocked of we pull out of Aleer as it seems to have been locked in for months.

 

[TheJackal]

Next draft is much better. Would rather keep next year's picks. GC need points not picks. Doubt they care about pick numbers.

Don't disagree with any of that, but I'm pretty sure I read a suggestion that we should swap our first for two picks in the 20s and keep one of them for ourselves. That sort of thought process is just unrealistic.

Next year's draft is better, but usually we always say that. Is the following year the one to try to trade out of? With Tassie killing the draft or is that the year after that?

I think if we can get Flanders, we just accept the draft hit and move on.

 

[Holy Hunter Clark]

The Korn being nice to us? Whats going on there.

Also just said that he can see us challenging for finals or further next year (didn't quite catch all of it as my air pods dropped out for a bit)

 

[stavro#4]

I can probably live with that but i also got howled down by plenty on here for suggesting we trade Roma.

Id prefer we dump this years first OR the Roma pick for Flanders and try to get mini Pou and then keep next years.

If we wind up with no firsts this or next year then i think its a mistake.

Agree with you on the agression, were clearly a destination club at the moment, gotta strike while the irons hot, i just hope were being considered and not just jumping at every 6/10

Look we could both be wrong and all these players are second round picks etc.

But it’s looking more and more like they will need the currency from a Marshall or Steele.

To be clear, im on board with Dow re signing, i cant say i get it if were also then gonna trade all our draft capital for two more mids.

You need depth etc etc but theres a point where it becomes a bit redundant

Unless Dow breaks into the best 22 next year. It looks like he will be cut at the end of the season.

Hit the draft again next year and replenish the youth that develops underneath

 

[phantom13]

We showed a fair bit at the back end of the year and that was still without King (who will make the biggest difference of anyone if fit).

Has to be Finals in 26 even if nothing but TDK winds up happening.

 

[stavro#4]

I want. Him Flanders Ryan TDK Jsos.

My expectations would probably be sky high in all honesty for next season.