Ross doing his thing and destroying his third list
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Roast St Kilda in no mans land - Part 2
- Thread starter The Nostradamus
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This is coach/footy department saying 'well let's give this one last big swing'.
I can respect it - it probably doesn't work (for a flag anyway) but at least Ross isn't sitting on his hands - he won't die wondering.
If it all falls in a heap over the next couple of years, Ross finishes up again and someone else takes on the full rebuild.
LeeCarvallo
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SOS doing exactly what he did at GWS and then Carlton that ****ed both lists from achieving what they should have.
Massively overpaying the top end talent on bloated long term contracts and having zero depth.
TDK is a good player but 1.8 million per year? Good lord, he's maybe a top 6 ruckman in the competition but I doubt many if any of the other elite ruckmen in the comp are on over a million a year. Averages a tick over 20 hitouts and less than half a goal a game.
They currently have Rowan Marshall on their list averaging more disposals, goals, score involvements, hitouts, tackles, and marks but decided to go out and spend 10% of their salary cap on a lesser version of him.
Massively overpaying the top end talent on bloated long term contracts and having zero depth.
TDK is a good player but 1.8 million per year? Good lord, he's maybe a top 6 ruckman in the competition but I doubt many if any of the other elite ruckmen in the comp are on over a million a year. Averages a tick over 20 hitouts and less than half a goal a game.
They currently have Rowan Marshall on their list averaging more disposals, goals, score involvements, hitouts, tackles, and marks but decided to go out and spend 10% of their salary cap on a lesser version of him.
Bill Crouse
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2007 as well. Dempster and Schneider from Sydney, and King and Gardiner from Geelong.
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Don't most clubs pick up 3-4 trades most years?
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Has an Eagle traded to another club gone on to achieve real success? Can't think of many.
Mat Mann
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- May 14, 2009
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nah we're young enough, big gulf between Marshall Wilkie Sinclair to the next group of King Nas ect..
we'll be fine, no rebuild needed
Judd was decent.
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Haha not rebuild now mate - a few years, once your senior group is done and you build around the young king.
Personally I don't agree with the criticism.
Wilkie, Marshall, Hill, Macrae, Steele and Sinclair are all pushing 30+.
Without knowing their list particularly well, they don't really have anyone of note in that next age bracket to replace those guys do they?
I think it's reasonable for them to believe they have the young guys at the club now, and they have a pretty good group of veterans - the missing piece is quality in that super important middle age bracket.
And they've gone out and added a few guys in this range. Obviously other clubs wanted them too - so very simply they had to pay for them.
I don't have an issue with their approach at all.
All clubs chase trade targets each year. It's usually 2-3 for all clubs.
Hawthorn are a good example.... Chol, that little Italian dude from Essendon, Ginnivan, Amon, Meek. Then followed that haul up with Battle and Barrass on big bucks.
It's a pretty standard approach to list management really.
Brisbane got Neale, Daniher, Cameron, then Doedee and Dunkley.
Collingwood seemingly do it every year too. Off the top of my head, McStay, Membrey, Schultz, Houston, Lipinski, Hill,
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see what they're doing as being much different to what all clubs do.
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Partially true.
I partially blame the AFL for restrictions on the salary cap.
Minimum cap is 95 percent. Very little wriggle room. Should be 90 percent.
I am slowly awaiting the playing salary cap hits 20 million. 19 million is 95 percent of the salary cap
Partially explains why Nasiah Wanganeen Milera is on 2 million for 2026 and 2027.
And saints paying 1.7 million dollars a year for a ruckman.
The other point I'd add, is that it feels like the Draft isn't the safe and steady option it once was.
I mean, you draft a gun kid, and basically get their first two years on the cheap when they're not much good yet. But then to keep them these days, you have to pay heavily anyway.
St Kilda for example, got one good season out of NW-M before they had to pay him $2m to retain him!!
Reid is getting a big contract too, and he's only given West coast two average seasons so far. GWS seem to have to pay their draftees up towards $1m a year as soon as their first contract is up too.
Horne-Francis is another example obviously.
Whilst Richmond have gone hard at the Draft, they're not going to be able to keep those guys if they're any good, when their contracts come up. They'll get poached and Richmond won't be able to keep them. And if they do the first time around, they definitely won't the second time around.
So I don't think it matters much whether you Draft or trade - you're going to have to pay big bucks to players anyway at some point.
I mean, you draft a gun kid, and basically get their first two years on the cheap when they're not much good yet. But then to keep them these days, you have to pay heavily anyway.
St Kilda for example, got one good season out of NW-M before they had to pay him $2m to retain him!!
Reid is getting a big contract too, and he's only given West coast two average seasons so far. GWS seem to have to pay their draftees up towards $1m a year as soon as their first contract is up too.
Horne-Francis is another example obviously.
Whilst Richmond have gone hard at the Draft, they're not going to be able to keep those guys if they're any good, when their contracts come up. They'll get poached and Richmond won't be able to keep them. And if they do the first time around, they definitely won't the second time around.
So I don't think it matters much whether you Draft or trade - you're going to have to pay big bucks to players anyway at some point.
I kinda admire it. Stop being the passive whingers and go out and try to achieve something.
It certainly is high risk - but we're talking about a team trying to change not just public perceptions, but the perceptions of players as a whole. They want to be seen as a team that isn't afraid to "go for broke".
Will it work? Sure, it could.
Plus now, we Cat fans can welcome them to the "How do they pay all those ..." Club.
It certainly is high risk - but we're talking about a team trying to change not just public perceptions, but the perceptions of players as a whole. They want to be seen as a team that isn't afraid to "go for broke".
Will it work? Sure, it could.
Plus now, we Cat fans can welcome them to the "How do they pay all those ..." Club.
I may be naive...but what's the Risk really?
Obviously any long term contract comes with inherent risk. But aside from that, what's the Risk?
Is it maxing out the salary cap so you lose other guys?
Agree with Joe above. At least they're having a crack. They need to do something and have decided that they will get aggressive re: bringing in talent from other clubs. Having said that, for the life of me I can't rationalise the $1.7m for TDK who as another poster pointed out, is a lesser player than Marshall. But they're not going to die wondering.
What will be fascinating next year is seeing how it plays out. They are all seasoned recruits and if all goes well, there will be instant improvement. Or there should be. Silvagni should improve the backline. Ryan should kick goals as a small forward. And create pressure. The young kids should improve as they continue to mature. TDK and Marshall working together (if Marshall stays) will be interesting. Don't know how that will play out but Lyon if nothing else is a smart cookie and will have something in mind.
As for those that are saying that Lyon is blowing up another list, does anyone really believe that this is all Lyon's doing? You don't think there are a number of roles that are driving this including List Manager, GM of Football, Head Coach, CEO? This isn't Lyon's doing. He may be all for it but it's not just him.
What will be fascinating next year is seeing how it plays out. They are all seasoned recruits and if all goes well, there will be instant improvement. Or there should be. Silvagni should improve the backline. Ryan should kick goals as a small forward. And create pressure. The young kids should improve as they continue to mature. TDK and Marshall working together (if Marshall stays) will be interesting. Don't know how that will play out but Lyon if nothing else is a smart cookie and will have something in mind.
As for those that are saying that Lyon is blowing up another list, does anyone really believe that this is all Lyon's doing? You don't think there are a number of roles that are driving this including List Manager, GM of Football, Head Coach, CEO? This isn't Lyon's doing. He may be all for it but it's not just him.
She's good looking but doesn't play AFL dude
Mofra
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In a heavily compromised draft and compromised drafts into the future, why not actually spend the cap to bring players in?
They won't die wondering. Good one them, taking an action is better than doing little to nothing.
They probably are overspending on 3 new guys but what is their alternative?
They won't die wondering. Good one them, taking an action is better than doing little to nothing.
They probably are overspending on 3 new guys but what is their alternative?
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Look at the 2013 "top up" and tell me with a straight face that the club thought it would play finals after those players walked through the door lol.
The trade period is the only comparable year and that was done when we had a poor young core and butchered our drafting for years. Currently, we have a strong young core and are now filling deficient positions with players in the 24-28 age range.
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I should've just said won a flag, or got close.
That it fails where other approaches may have worked. I wouldn't entirely discount a sense of 'locker room resentment' either.
I think it does make it difficult to create a more balanced list. And it does take them out of the market for any other 'big signings' in years to come.
My view is that much of this has changed.
Guys playing for money or success is very normal these days - whereas a decade or two ago it was frowned upon.
So I think most of the concerns around this stuff aren't all that relevant in modern professional sport.
We've taken more 18 year Olds via the draft in the last 4 years than any club.
We have a large base of young talent and then we have a huge gap in the age group between 23-30.
We only paid 83% of the salary cap this year according to Caroline Wilson which means we have around 6m worth of money we could potentially spend on recruitment. Note all of our deals are very heavily front loaded.
It's a deliberate strategy, the logic is sound. Hopefully it pays off.
We have a large base of young talent and then we have a huge gap in the age group between 23-30.
We only paid 83% of the salary cap this year according to Caroline Wilson which means we have around 6m worth of money we could potentially spend on recruitment. Note all of our deals are very heavily front loaded.
It's a deliberate strategy, the logic is sound. Hopefully it pays off.
No disputing that, which is why I'm in favour of it.
The salary cap is interesting, isn't it? I was always of the impression a club had to pay 93-95%. I suppose that's calculated in a variety of ways.
Either way, if it does pay off you'll have Richmond supporters crying foul about Simon Lethlean forever.
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