News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[Snuffaluphagus]

The arguments from clubs like port, Essendon etc are terrible.

Either you want the change now (2026) or you want a different approach (eg go with the points changes and continue to tweak). A reason argument can’t be that we should change it -checks when my club will benefit- in 3 years time.

I knew we'd agree on something eventually

 

[Elixuh]

I knew we'd agree on something eventually

Wanna be friends?

 

[GenericUsername202]

The arguments from clubs like port, Essendon etc are terrible.

Either you want the change now (2026) or you want a different approach (eg go with the points changes and continue to tweak). A reason argument can’t be that we should change it -checks when my club will benefit- in 3 years time.

Exactly. Carlton and Essendon are only arguing against it to benefit themselves. They don't care about the system, they only care that the system is now disadvantaging them. Had these two clubs not have these highly rated prospects coming through, they probably would have been cheering for it to go to

 

[Bostonian]

Exactly. Carlton and Essendon are only arguing against it to benefit themselves. They don't care about the system, they only care that the system is now disadvantaging them. Had these two clubs not have these highly rated prospects coming through, they probably would have been cheering for it to go to

Yeah how dare clubs have vested interests.

Like your club have none.

Or do you think it's because these clubs have been working their lists and picks to work around these young players they have invested in for longer than your academy has in its players ?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Exactly. Carlton and Essendon are only arguing against it to benefit themselves. They don't care about the system, they only care that the system is now disadvantaging them. Had these two clubs not have these highly rated prospects coming through, they probably would have been cheering for it to go to

I just wonder whether they compromise and say a "top 3 lockout'. It's mainly those real top few picks that people are losing their you know whats about. Top 5, I can get on board but feel there will be pushbacks. Whatever they do, do it now and deal with the uproar rather than trying to do it in stages. Top 3 lockout you are really talking Sam Darcy, JUH, and the Ashcrofts in recent times, that's about it, maybe I've missed a couple, obviously the couple this year might or at least 1 will.

I do feel when you are coming 4th last you aren't horrible, Essendon were not dreadful in the first half of year and have plenty of talent, Melbourne similar plenty of kids coming through. They were 4th and 5th last, Port are irrelevant just come off a prelim the year prior they are one position higher. It's the North, Rich, and WCE that probably need to be protected. The only slight issue is does this promote tanking in another area, and I'm not an expert on this

 

[Tom14]

Wanna be friends?

Please stay on topic Elixuh,

 

[Elixuh]

Yeah how dare clubs have vested interests.

Like your club have none.

Or do you think it's because these clubs have been working their lists and picks to work around these young players they have invested in for longer than your academy has in its players ?

Yeah so if you want to benefit from it just say that we should keep the revised points system and tweak and necessary.

 

[hammer180]

Yeah how dare clubs have vested interests.

Like your club have none.

Or do you think it's because these clubs have been working their lists and picks to work around these young players they have invested in for longer than your academy has in its players ?

Hard to agree with this one specifically, Walker only declared in mid July that he had the intention of choosing carlton (fatherson) over richmond (nga) as he was eligible for both. By all means you can say he was never going to richmond (and that may have been the case) then it should have been made earlier, before last draft for example.
So I don't actually think you can use the picks argument in this as this is the first draft you would be sure of his intentions to choose carlton as he could have picked richmond, if richmond had have believed he was going to richmond and traded picks from last yr to this yr or even next yr for him, then walker picked carlton it would be bad luck for them. It works in the same way as if walker had have picked richmond instead of carlton then it would have been bad luck carlton.
If a team had have made a trade in preparation for walker it would have been poor list management for either side to have traded draft capital last yr for specifically trying to assist in acquiring walker next yr because he was eligible for both. It's actually similar to to making a bet and spending some of the winnings before finding the result of the bet.
This also applies the same way to list spots changes from last yr as technically he could still choose either.

 

[Bostonian]

Hard to agree with this one specifically, Walker only declared in mid July that he had the intention of choosing carlton (fatherson) over richmond (nga) as he was eligible for both. By all means you can say he was never going to richmond (and that may have been the case) then it should have been made earlier, before last draft for example.
So I don't actually think you can use the picks argument in this as this is the first draft you would be sure of his intentions to choose carlton as he could have picked richmond, if richmond had have believed he was going to richmond and traded picks from last yr to this yr or even next yr for him, then walker picked carlton it would be bad luck for them. It works in the same way as if walker had have picked richmond instead of carlton then it would have been bad luck carlton.
If a team had have made a trade in preparation for walker it would have been poor list management for either side to have traded draft capital last yr for specifically trying to assist in acquiring walker next yr because he was eligible for both. It's actually similar to to making a bet and spending some of the winnings before finding the result of the bet.
This also applies the same way to list spots changes from last yr as technically he could still choose either.

Walker has been in or around our academy for years now. Far longer than any kid has been at the GC suns academy.

Walker has actually nominated his club far earlier than most young players do, by quite a few months earlier.

He had next to no contact with your NGA because he was always working with our father/son/NGA academy.

 

[Bostonian]

I just wonder whether they compromise and say a "top 3 lockout'. It's mainly those real top few picks that people are losing their you know whats about. Top 5, I can get on board but feel there will be pushbacks. Whatever they do, do it now and deal with the uproar rather than trying to do it in stages. Top 3 lockout you are really talking Sam Darcy, JUH, and the Ashcrofts in recent times, that's about it, maybe I've missed a couple, obviously the couple this year might or at least 1 will.

I do feel when you are coming 4th last you aren't horrible, Essendon were not dreadful in the first half of year and have plenty of talent, Melbourne similar plenty of kids coming through. They were 4th and 5th last, Port are irrelevant just come off a prelim the year prior they are one position higher. It's the North, Rich, and WCE that probably need to be protected. The only slight issue is does this promote tanking in another area, and I'm not an expert on this

So the fact they could have had Bewick down at the club for years now, working on his game and forward preparing to get him on the list just gets turfed out the window and all their planning just means nothing?

Many father sons have been at the club for far longer than some blow in from local leagues these northern academies get to claim.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

So the fact they could have had Bewick down at the club for years now, working on his game and forward preparing to get him on the list just gets turfed out the window and all their planning just means nothing?

Many father sons have been at the club for far longer than some blow in from local leagues these northern academies get to claim.

It would be a lockout for all of them in the top 3/5 (whatever one you want). I wouldn't be fussed either way. Whether it be NGA, academy, Father son. Just make it across the board and no one can complain.

All compensation picks to be no more than end of first round, that is enough compensation. If you wish to take the compo you'll get pick 19+ not a top 5-10 pick for an average as player that's just lucky St Kilda has a boatful of cash in reserves.

Again it's fair, shift the bands down and everyone is happy, it means a fairer first round. It shouldn't matter what Bewick has done or Walker has done or and academy guy.

A lockout will be the fairest way going forward.

 

[Bostonian]

It would be a lockout for all of them in the top 3/5 (whatever one you want). I wouldn't be fussed either way. Whether it be NGA, academy, Father son. Just make it across the board and no one can complain.

All compensation picks to be no more than end of first round, that is enough compensation. If you wish to take the compo you'll get pick 19+ not a top 5-10 pick for an average as player that's just lucky St Kilda has a boatful of cash in reserves.

Again it's fair, shift the bands down and everyone is happy, it means a fairer first round. It shouldn't matter what Bewick has done or Walker has done or and academy guy.

A lockout will be the fairest way going forward.

What's the point of investing a cent into these academies then.

Seems these lockouts will favour clubs like yours the most.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

What's the point of investing a cent into these academies then.

Seems these lockouts will favour clubs like yours the most.

That is why I've said a top 3 lockout is the fairest. We are only talking the very best ones being locked out here. Top 5 I'm okay with but that's about the max for mine, whole first round is silly.

Just means your Sam Darcy's who are bid top 2 aren't tied to clubs, and I'd be more than fine if a top 3 talent in our academy we couldn't match.

However if you really want the guy trade up, GWS have traded up to pick1/2 in the past on occasions.

It just will allow bottom sides to get access to the very best players, this year and especially the farcical GC situation a few years back can't happen where you get to match for 2c in the dollar.

 

[Bostonian]

That is why I've said a top 3 lockout is the fairest. We are only talking the very best ones being locked out here. Top 5 I'm okay with but that's about the max for mine, whole first round is silly.

Just means your Sam Darcy's who are bid top 2 aren't tied to clubs, and I'd be more than fine if a top 3 talent in our academy we couldn't match.

However if you really want the guy trade up, GWS have traded up to pick1/2 in the past on occasions.

It just will allow bottom sides to get access to the very best players, this year and especially the farcical GC situation a few years back can't happen where you get to match for 2c in the dollar.

And yet if the bottom teams get a top 3 pick from your or any Northern academies the chances are rather high they'll just lose them to the go home factor anyway.

Academies get 40-50 new kids every year into a system. Father sons are far, far smaller in numbers due to the requirements to be eligible

Seems this system benefits you a lot more than non-academy clubs.

 

[hammer180]

Walker has been in or around our academy for years now. Far longer than any kid has been at the GC suns academy.

Walker has actually nominated his club far earlier than most young players do, by quite a few months earlier.

He had next to no contact with your NGA because he was always working with our father/son/NGA academy.

I think you may have missed what I was addressing here, its irrelevant if walker spent 5 yrs or 10mins at either carlton for fatherson or for richmonds NGA if he is eligible for both and the decision has not been made on which team he is going to you can not prepare for it.
It may have been the case that he spent minimal time at Richmonds NGA but Carlton would have been irresponsible to plan for him without a decision as he could change his mind. Kalani White was at gold coasts academy for 5 yrs and picked Melbourne for example as a fatherson, so it works both ways too.

And yet if the bottom teams get a top 3 pick from your or any Northern academies the chances are rather high they'll just lose them to the go home factor anyway.

Also that's part of drafting, WCE took a risk on drafting Harley Reid for example, freo on Murphy Reid, Port taking Butters many yrs ago, crows traded up to get Dan Curtin (wa).
The difference now atleast is that there is more of a go home factor that needs to be taken into consideration for players from non-victorian clubs which Victorians haven't had to really factor in when drafting, compared to the non-victorian sides who draft from Victoria.

 

[Elixuh]

At least we now have some clarity from Sydney around how the academies are funded. Puts to bed this argument that they’re afl funded.

 

[Bostonian]

I think you may have missed what I was addressing here, its irrelevant if walker spent 5 yrs or 10mins at either carlton for fatherson or for richmonds NGA if he is eligible for both and the decision has not been made on which team he is going to you can not prepare for it.
It may have been the case that he spent minimal time at Richmonds NGA but Carlton would have been irresponsible to plan for him without a decision as he could change his mind. Kalani White was at gold coasts academy for 5 yrs and picked Melbourne for example as a fatherson, so it works both ways too.

We're irresponsible for planning for a player that's been at the club for years using existing rules that landed other clubs father sons?

You can claim he could change his mind but the reality is the club has known a long time that was never going to be the case.

Also that's part of drafting, WCE took a risk on drafting Harley Reid for example, freo on Murphy Reid, Port taking Butters many yrs ago, crows traded up to get Dan Curtin (wa).
The difference now atleast is that there is more of a go home factor that needs to be taken into consideration for players from non-victorian clubs which Victorians haven't had to really factor in when drafting, compared to the non-victorian sides who draft from Victoria.

Except that if a Victorian player decides to return there's far more competition to convince that player to choose a club.

And none of the players you mentioned were tied to an academy.

If you come from GC academy you're only going back to a singular club if you want to return home.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

And yet if the bottom teams get a top 3 pick from your or any Northern academies the chances are rather high they'll just lose them to the go home factor anyway.

Academies get 40-50 new kids every year into a system. Father sons are far, far smaller in numbers due to the requirements to be eligible

Seems this system benefits you a lot more than non-academy clubs.

The rule needs to be across the board don’t pretend Vic clubs don’t still get the rub of the green here. You are not travelling every second week for starters.

Whatever the rule is it needs to be for father son as well as academy and NGA it’s not hard just make one rule for all 3. Otherwise just leave it as it is and deal with it after the Tassie drafts take your pick

 

[Bostonian]

The rule needs to be across the board don’t pretend Vic clubs don’t still get the rub of the green here. You are not travelling every second week for starters.

Whatever the rule is it needs to be for father son as well as academy and NGA it’s not hard just make one rule for all 3. Otherwise just leave it as it is and deal with it after the Tassie drafts take your pick

How to Vic clubs get the rub of the green?

Travelling has zero to do with drafts.

How many new academy players are added each year into your academy system?

20-40 new each year in an age group?

How is that even comparable to father son or NGA when there's zero requirements for academy juniors?

NGA father son a team might be lucky to have a few kids be eligible for it.

You'd agree there's a better chance of finding a good player with large numbers than a few?

 

[the big lebowski]

Thank goodness that it’s now clear for all to see that northern academies have zero to do with growing the game and are only about delivering high end talent to 4 clubs.

At least we can call a spade a spade now without Brisbane, swans, giants and suns fans trying to convince us it’s a circular saw

If they want to “grow the game” let the afl fund the academies so anyone can draft the graduates.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

How to Vic clubs get the rub of the green?

Travelling has zero to do with drafts.

How many new academy players are added each year into your academy system?

20-40 new each year in an age group?

How is that even comparable to father son or NGA when there's zero requirements for academy juniors?

NGA father son a team might be lucky to have a few kids be eligible for it.

You'd agree there's a better chance of finding a good player with large numbers than a few?

Not really the academy is purely and simple to stop what would be a hideous merry go round with retention. Whether it’s easier to find a father son or not doesn’t matter this purely and simply is so we aren’t losing 5 plus blokes a year being mummies boys, there still are enough of them. Maybe we get to a stage where we don’t need the academy I hope it’s in my lifetime but it’s at least 20-30 years away. Right now isn’t the time.

The fairest way is to make all 3 systems on a level playing field whatever that is ie lockout or making the first pick within x positions. Whatever, just make it the same for academy, father son and nga it’s not complicated

 

[Bostonian]

Not really the academy is purely and simple to stop what would be a hideous merry go round with retention. Whether it’s easier to find a father son or not doesn’t matter this purely and simply is so we aren’t losing 5 plus blokes a year being mummies boys, there still are enough of them. Maybe we get to a stage where we don’t need the academy I hope it’s in my lifetime but it’s at least 20-30 years away. Right now isn’t the time.

The fairest way is to make all 3 systems on a level playing field whatever that is ie lockout or making the first pick within x positions. Whatever, just make it the same for academy, father son and nga it’s not complicated

How do you make a level playing field when some clubs have access to significantly more young players than the other clubs?

 

[Lore]

Thank goodness that it’s now clear for all to see that northern academies have zero to do with growing the game and are only about delivering high end talent to 4 clubs.

At least we can call a spade a spade now without Brisbane, swans, giants and suns fans trying to convince us it’s a circular saw

If they want to “grow the game” let the afl fund the academies so anyone can draft the graduates.

What do you think grow the game actually means?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

How do you make a level playing field when some clubs have access to significantly more young players than the other clubs?

Vic clubs are getting access to all the players and the added bonus of putting chequebooks and boats in front of players to move.

They will come up with a compromise that’s across all 3 forms, the Swann has literally said that- whatever change it will be across the board. That’s fair and it’s fine.

What that is is who knows what, a lockout maybe? I doubt they go a whole round that’s opening a can of worms but top 3/5 go for it.

The other option was weirdly an idea that Jimmy Bartel said, give every side two first rounders each year but I’m not sure what that actually does

 

[the big lebowski]

What do you think grow the game actually means?

In the context of academies or the northern states, increasing participation levels and getting kids drafted from those states?