News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[Count_Zero]

No one mentioned priority picks.

I’ve made my position clear in this thread. If St Kilda want to propose a change that will achieve the purpose of academies be my guest. But all I get when I pose this question is deflections from Saints fans.

One thing that would make it equal would be that if you bid on a top 10 pick, you use a top 10 pick to acquire that player. There is a solution.

 

[Elixuh]

One thing that would make it equal would be that if you bid on a top 10 pick, you use a top 10 pick to acquire that player. There is a solution.

The key issue and question which needs to be addressed is how do we produce quantity of AFL talent from the Northern states?

Putting that to one side and addressing your proposed rule, if a player is bid on with pick 10, how do you match it?

 

[mpal6]

The victimhood is strong, bro.

The quick cop out answer is strong from you too, bro !

 

[Elixuh]

The victimhood is strong, bro.

Makes long winded post about ‘snide remarks’. Immediately makes snide remarks.

 

[mpal6]

Makes long winded post about ‘snide remarks’. Immediately makes snide remarks.

Interstate club disadvantaged = good for the game.

Vic club disadvantaged = sky is falling ! inequality !

 

[Count_Zero]

The key issue and question which needs to be addressed is how do we produce quantity of AFL talent from the Northern states?

Putting that to one side and addressing your proposed rule, if a player is bid on with pick 10, how do you match it?

First round pick, the issue isn't producing quality talent from the northern states because your last four free hits all played for Sandy Dragons (both Ashcrofts, Fletcher and Marshall.) So why do you get such a discount for talent that was produced in Victoria But let's not talk about FS, I have a better question. How many QLD players do Lions have on there list?

 

[Elixuh]

First round pick, the issue isn't producing quality talent from the northern states because your last four free hits all played for Sandy Dragons (both Ashcrofts, Fletcher and Marshall.) So why do you get such a discount for talent that was produced in Victoria But let's not talk about FS, I have a better question. How many QLD players do Lions have on there list?

FS is separate from academies. So irrelevant.

About 10.

 

[briztoon]

Not when your father can give you better advice and training than a junior coach can.

Who’s he playing with, while he develops?

Can kick the ball about with dad as much as he can, he’s not going to get any actual game sense just training and talking to dad.

There was a fair bit of talk up here a season or two ago, that the Ovens & Murray league is stronger than the QAFL up here.

Pretty hard to develop if the local pathways stop at country league level, and there’s no higher standard to step up to.

 

[Bostonian]

Who’s he playing with, while he develops?

Can kick the ball about with dad as much as he can, he’s not going to get any actual game sense just training and talking to dad.

There was a fair bit of talk up here a season or two ago, that the Ovens & Murray league is stronger than the QAFL up here.

Pretty hard to develop if the local pathways stop at country league level, and there’s no higher standard to step up to.

He can play in the same leagues he'd play in if he wasn't in an academy. If he's good he'll still get picked for rep sides.

Nick Riewoldt proves you can play local football, still get selected for Rep teams, still be noticed as a high end player, still be picked at #1 in the national draft.

Often those young country players play seniors earlier so are exposed to higher level competition than by just playing in junior leagues.

Cody Walker has been playing senior country football since he was 16.

 

[Elixuh]

He can play in the same leagues he'd play in if he wasn't in an academy. If he's good he'll still get picked for rep sides.

Nick Riewoldt proves you can play local football, still get selected for Rep teams, still be noticed as a high end player, still be picked at #1 in the national draft.

1 player is a great sample size for your argument, you’ve changed my mind.

 

[Bostonian]

1 player is a great sample size for your argument, you’ve changed my mind.

One player in an era where there was a lot less coverage and money in junior football.

Suggesting that Cooper Hodge needs Brisbane's Academy to make the AFL is nonsense.

 

[Elixuh]

One player in an era where there was a lot less coverage and money in junior football.

Suggesting that Cooper Hodge needs Brisbane's Academy to make the AFL is nonsense.

No one is saying he can’t make the AFL but being in the academy or moving to Melbourne gives him the best chance of succeeding.

 

[Bostonian]

No one is saying he can’t make the AFL but being in the academy or moving to Melbourne gives him the best chance of succeeding.

I don't agree. The quality of players coming out of the non-traditional pathways has shown it's not necessary for succeeding.

 

[Elixuh]

I don't agree. The quality of players coming out of the non-traditional pathways has shown it's not necessary for succeeding.

Prior to academies there was less than 1 draftee per year over like 30/35 years. And that’s of varying levels - from Nick Riewoldt to spuds who don’t ever play a game. That’s terrible.

 

[Kildonan]

Said this a few times but copying from another thread I made a few years ago

The problem with the current system is that it is so hard to get proper value for a player, getting exactly what that player is worth rather than trying to find a deal with picks, picks that won't necessarily match what the player is actually worth.

That is very convoluted.

I will be honest and say I think the best solution is actually going entirely points based for drafting and trading.

Each team has points at the start of the trading process based on their ladder position

18th position - 4647 points
17th position - 4088 points
16th position - 3740 points
15th position - 3478 points
14th position - 3263 points
13th position - 3077 points
12th position - 2913 points
11th position - 2765 points
10th position - 2631 points
9th position - 2504 points
8th position - 2388 points
7th position - 2279 points
6th position - 2174 points
5th position - 2077 points
4th position - 1983 points
3rd position - 1894 points
2nd position - 1809 points
1st position - 1726 points

and lets use the Kelly example from a few years ago where West Coast didn't really have anything Geelong wanted. They could instead under this system simply pay Geelong 1950 points and West Coast would get Kelly (both teams negotiating how many points Kelly is worth).

Then come the draft day pick 1 is announced and every team has 2 minutes to submit who they want with pick 1, and the points they are willing to pay for pick 1.

Then, the team that handed over the most points for pick 1 gets the player they nominated (and it is not shown what the other teams did). We then move onto pick 2, teams placing bids, stating the player they want and the points they are willing to pay and then the team that submitted the highest points total gets the player they want, then moving onto pick 3 etc.

If an academy kid is nominated at some point in the draft then the side the academy kid is attached to has a right to match the bid the rival team placed on said academy player, paying the points the rival team wants to pay.

It also potentially allows a lot more freedom in the draft for individual clubs to do what they think is best. For instance Adelaide could really really want Jason Horne, a local boy and supposedly the best player in the draft. They could use almost all their points on a pick 1 bid and get Jason Horne. It would mean having really crappy later picks but it would get the player they really want. Then we could have North Melbourne who could decide that no, we are not going to go after pick 1, and instead we are going to use our points later in the draft and bid on picks 7, 8 and 9, and suddenly North have 3 top 10 players and are able to turbocharge their rebuild.

Also clubs can bank points, so if a club decides not to use 1000 points they will have those points in next years draft.

To me this is a much fairer system, not just for the academies, but for the trading and drafting system in general.

One possible approach is to have a representative from each club offer a points value for each trade proposed, the highest and lowest values are eliminated to leave the 10 middle values. Add up and divide by 10 to give the final transfer cost.
The same approach can be used to determine a fair price for Father/Son and Academy picks. No discount should apply but flexibility should be built into the system so that draft points from the next season/s can be used.

I must say that I prefer that the system of picks in reverse order of finish as the main determinant of pick order and the points system to facilitate recruiting outside the pick order system.

 

[Lore]

One possible approach is to have a representative from each club offer a points value for each trade proposed, the highest and lowest values are eliminated to leave the 10 middle values. Add up and divide by 10 to give the final transfer cost.
The same approach can be used to determine a fair price for Father/Son and Academy picks. No discount should apply but flexibility should be built into the system so that draft points from the next season/s can be used.

I must say that I prefer that the system of picks in reverse order of finish as the main determinant of pick order and the points system to facilitate recruiting outside the pick order system.

Trades should just be done based on however many points the clubs agree on.

Then after trade period you auction off the draft picks, starting at 1. You'd end up with picks being valued differently from one year to the next, depending on the quality and depth of the draft.

 

[Elixuh]

Trades should just be done based on however many points the clubs agree on.

Then after trade period you auction off the draft picks, starting at 1. You'd end up with picks being valued differently from one year to the next, depending on the quality and depth of the draft.

This would be great for some clubs with good list management. Not so good for clubs with poor list management!

 

[Lore]

This would be great for some clubs with good list management. Not so good for clubs with poor list management!

The AFL already has rules around trading of future picks and not paddling yourself up shit creek (which doesn't really work but they're trying). I would have to assume something equivalent would be in place, like a limitation on how much of a points deficit or surplus you can take into a future year.

 

[Elixuh]

The AFL already has rules around trading of future picks and not paddling yourself up shit creek (which doesn't really work but they're trying). I would have to assume something equivalent would be in place, like a limitation on how much of a points deficit or surplus you can take into a future year.

We need to protect North from itself

 

[Count_Zero]

FS is separate from academies. So irrelevant.

About 10.

In your best 25?

 

[Elixuh]

In your best 25?

I’ll assume you mean best 23. Last week I think we had about 6

 

[Count_Zero]

I’ll assume you mean best 23. Last week I think we had about 6

Can you name them?

 

[Elixuh]

Can you name them?

No, you go ahead tho

 

[Count_Zero]

No, you go ahead tho

Dayne Zorko
Will and Levi Ashcroft
Darcy Wilmot
Charlie Cameron

 

[Elixuh]

Dayne Zorko
Will and Levi Ashcroft
Darcy Wilmot
Charlie Cameron

It’s interesting in one argument you count Will and Levi as Victorian but in another Queensland. You need to make up your mind.