Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[Raz]

Yeah, what an insult! Who decided this?

Is the vic coach a current coach ? Perhaps they don’t want current coaches in charge of state of origin

 

[pK75]

Is the vic coach a current coach ? Perhaps they don’t want current coaches in charge of state of origin

Cox is the current coach of Sydney?

 

[pK75]

Assuming he had none but that’s kinda my point.
No one knew back then Chris Scott would go on to become one of the great coaches. What we did know is that he came as a player from one of the most successful dynasties in the games history.
Haven’t got the stats to back it up but it seems to me that most of the games successful coaches came from club environments as players that were much more successful than average.

Damien Hardwick
Craig McRae
Chris Scott
Adam Simpson
Simon Goodwin

All multiple premiership winners as players. It can’t be a coincidence that these type of guys mostly replicate the higher standard environments that were exposed to as players into their coaching careers.

Clearly we can’t compete with big Melbourne clubs for the latest crop of freshly retired players that want to go into coaching. But Mitch Duncan is a WA boy and he’s just exactly the type that would go on to be an excellent coach. A mid ranking player in an elite team that was consistently winning finals and playing in prelims and GFs for most of his career.

Do you agree that backroom coaching personnel should be regularly changed?
And if so, how do we do it given the constraints we have?

Feels to me like getting in ex freo players that never won anything as players is just the easy option.

It’s no guarantee though, Voss, Brad Scott, Leppich all came from the Lions team under Matthews and all failed as senior coaches.

 

[Dockeroo]

All those players coached after doing an apprenticeship as an assistant. We got Chris Scott coming straight out of playing & there were risks involved.

We also got David Hale, Brent Guerra & Anthony Rock in 2016 with Hale & Guerra coming out of the Hawthorn dynasty as mid range players. Did them coming out of a successful program help our group?

We do not need to take a risk on Mitch Duncan at this stage of our history with a chance he may not offer anything to our group. But the facts are, they offered him more money & likely a greater role because they have an inexperienced coaching group with more money available.

Chris Scott came in when we were struggling, there was nothing to lose but without being a hindsight hero, which you are doing, he could have been a flop as Duncan might be. We need experienced, better coaches to replace what we already have, not speculators who may end up being a good coach.

Should we be changing our back room coaching personnel? Do you mean development or assistant coaches? Either way, not just for the sake of it. If there is a better option available then by all means consider it, but we are not afforded that luxury of numerous options that the Eastern States based teams are.

Coaches develop relationships with players that is just as important as the game plan, clubs are very cautious with meddling with these connections.

I’m not being a hindsight hero at all.
You seem to think that we should not change up the coaching mix much at all which is fair enough but also a conservative point of view Id suggest. There’s ample evidence across multiple sports on the benefit of fresh voices in the coaching department each year. Chris Scott for example has dramatically changed his gamestyle within his Geelong coaching career on a number of occasions, and that’s even after losing prelims and grand finals, a stage JL has yet to get to.

I’d say David Hale has been a decent coach btw - he’s now the hawks midfield coach I think and is progressing nicely through his coaching career.

I’m not saying we need to have a future superstar head coach. But a fresher voice from a proven winning environment would have helped. My sense is that JL isn’t a guy to deviate much from the status quo from season to season, and I’m not sure that will be enough to win a flag. We have played mostly the same style of footy now for a few years. It’s good, but not great is probably the fairest way to evaluate it so far.
At the end of the day none of us know what the true influence of these assistant and development coaches are because it’s so hard to disentangle without being involved in the clubs inner workings. All we can judge is what we see on the field each game.

We can compare what we do to other clubs though. It was interesting that Brisbane grabbed Stuart Dew the moment GC sacked him. Whatever long term coaching strategy they had went out the window when the opportunity arose. They felt that level of coaching experience being available in their location was too good to turn down. Sydney did the same with Leon Cameron actually when the giants moved him on. Maybe we tried the same with Simpson, I don’t know.

I’d just like to see JL take more risks in his coaching career. My sense is that he’s a conservative guy that’s a bit of an “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it type”. Ironically by not changing from his formula much, he’s running a huge risk of being a coach that maxes out with a top 6 ceiling without ever being a true contender for the flag at any point, which would be a real shame. Whatever you or his more vocal supporters might think, he’s not going to reach an 8th or 9th season without a prelim appearance at least I don’t think.

I think there’s a very strong chance we will see the same freo in 2026 as we did in 2025. A good solid team that is ultimately the 5th to 7th best side in the comp. Nothing in this off season indicates there will be anything other than incremental or marginal improvements on last year. Will that enough in year seven for JL? It’s a good question actually.
If we finish 6th or 7th next year and lose week one of finals (a very realistic chance this happens btw) - without changing up too much from 2025 - should JL get an eighth year in 2027?
It’s a question that’s already looming into view even at this early stage..

 

[Dockeroo]

It’s no guarantee though, Voss, Brad Scott, Leppich all came from the Lions team under Matthews and all failed as senior coaches.

Not saying you are incorrect but Voss and Brad Scott have both coached sides to prelim finals, something that JL has yet to do…

 

[eastfreo75]

I’m not being a hindsight hero at all.
You seem to think that we should not change up the coaching mix much at all which is fair enough but also a conservative point of view Id suggest. There’s ample evidence across multiple sports on the benefit of fresh voices in the coaching department each year. Chris Scott for example has dramatically changed his gamestyle within his Geelong coaching career on a number of occasions, and that’s even after losing prelims and grand finals, a stage JL has yet to get to.

I’d say David Hale has been a decent coach btw - he’s now the hawks midfield coach I think and is progressing nicely through his coaching career.

I’m not saying we need to have a future superstar head coach. But a fresher voice from a proven winning environment would have helped. My sense is that JL isn’t a guy to deviate much from the status quo from season to season, and I’m not sure that will be enough to win a flag. We have played mostly the same style of footy now for a few years. It’s good, but not great is probably the fairest way to evaluate it so far.
At the end of the day none of us know what the true influence of these assistant and development coaches are because it’s so hard to disentangle without being involved in the clubs inner workings. All we can judge is what we see on the field each game.

We can compare what we do to other clubs though. It was interesting that Brisbane grabbed Stuart Dew the moment GC sacked him. Whatever long term coaching strategy they had went out the window when the opportunity arose. They felt that level of coaching experience being available in their location was too good to turn down. Sydney did the same with Leon Cameron actually when the giants moved him on. Maybe we tried the same with Simpson, I don’t know.

I’d just like to see JL take more risks in his coaching career. My sense is that he’s a conservative guy that’s a bit of an “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it type”. Ironically by not changing from his formula much, he’s running a huge risk of being a coach that maxes out with a top 6 ceiling without ever being a true contender for the flag at any point, which would be a real shame. Whatever you or his more vocal supporters might think, he’s not going to reach an 8th or 9th season without a prelim appearance at least I don’t think.

I think there’s a very strong chance we will see the same freo in 2026 as we did in 2025. A good solid team that is ultimately the 5th to 7th best side in the comp. Nothing in this off season indicates there will be anything other than incremental or marginal improvements on last year. Will that enough in year seven for JL? It’s a good question actually.
If we finish 6th or 7th next year and lose week one of finals (a very realistic chance this happens btw) - without changing up too much from 2025 - should JL get an eighth year in 2027?
It’s a question that’s already looming into view even at this early stage..

Totally agree.

Classic example of this “if it isn’t broken don’t fix attitude” was the Suns game. Treacy in previous games would switch as an extra back in the last minutes of a game. It worked well.

Hardwick knew what JL would do and then got Andrews to go forward with a massive reach advantage.

Getting Treacy as an extra back is a good idea but it’s very predictable and there is no plan B.

JLo structures are good but it’s easily scouted. No surprises.

JLo lacks the creativity to do anything different. Sure, I don’t want to go back to the Connelly and Harvey eras where every week there was a new structure. But seriously you need some variation to the game style and structure.

 

[Mags98]

Totally agree.

Classic example of this “if it isn’t broken don’t fix attitude” was the Suns game. Treacy in previous games would switch as an extra back in the last minutes of a game. It worked well.

Hardwick knew what JL would do and then got Andrews to go forward with a massive reach advantage.

Getting Treacy as an extra back is a good idea but it’s very predictable and there is no plan B.

JLo structures are good but it’s easily scouted. No surprises.

JLo lacks the creativity to do anything different. Sure, I don’t want to go back to the Connelly and Harvey eras where every week there was a new structure. But seriously you need some variation to the game style and structure.

this might be the worst whinge ive ever seen.

complaining about an extra tall back in the last minutes of a game... righteo

 

[Paracleet]

this might be the worst whinge ive ever seen.

complaining about an extra tall back in the last minutes of a game... righteo

Particually in light of the fact that all our other key forwards are also at least 5 cm shorter than Andrew as well. Even if you classify Jackson as forward for these purposes: Tracey is our strongest forward in a contest and the best contested marker. He is absolutely the best choice to go behind play at the end.

 

[malpaso]

Totally agree.

Classic example of this “if it isn’t broken don’t fix attitude” was the Suns game. Treacy in previous games would switch as an extra back in the last minutes of a game. It worked well.

Hardwick knew what JL would do and then got Andrews to go forward with a massive reach advantage.

Getting Treacy as an extra back is a good idea but it’s very predictable and there is no plan B.

JLo structures are good but it’s easily scouted. No surprises.

JLo lacks the creativity to do anything different. Sure, I don’t want to go back to the Connelly and Harvey eras where every week there was a new structure. But seriously you need some variation to the game style and structure.

What a load of horseshit. Easily scouted doesn't equal 16 wins.

Treacy is a poor example. Both times (North and Pies) he did it previous to the Suns game it saved the game. A combination of turning his head at the wrong moment cost him in the Suns game. Why the **** would JLo go "Oh Hardwick might know what's happening here, we better not do it".

 

[rgauci]

What a load of horseshit. Easily scouted doesn't equal 16 wins.

Treacy is a poor example. Both times (North and Pies) he did it previous to the Suns game it saved the game. A combination of turning his head at the wrong moment cost him in the Suns game. Why the **** would JLo go "Oh Hardwick might know what's happening here, we better not do it".

The move wasn’t wrong, the timing was wrong, we were 6 points up. Should we go 7 points up, that would have been the perfect timing, him shifting back severely reduces our chances of scoring. Very few people critical of Alex Pearce ghosting across the front of the contest without touching the ball.

 

[Raz]

Cox is the current coach of Sydney?

Ahh ok . I really don’t follow AFL closely . Only Fremantle

Thanks

 

[chaosball32]

Does anyone know when we are unfurling our ‘won 16 games’ flag at Optus?

It’ll go nicely with our ‘didn’t win a final’ and ‘1 finals win in 10 years’ flags.

 

[Kram]

Does anyone know when we are unfurling our ‘won 16 games’ flag at Optus?

It’ll go nicely with our ‘didn’t win a final’ and ‘1 finals win in 10 years’ flags.

When you get the accepting mediocrity tattoo.

 

[Paracleet]

When you get the accepting mediocrity tattoo.

His view would probably be that we should be the ones getting the tattoo en masse

 

[chaosball32]

Totally agree.

Classic example of this “if it isn’t broken don’t fix attitude” was the Suns game. Treacy in previous games would switch as an extra back in the last minutes of a game. It worked well.

Hardwick knew what JL would do and then got Andrews to go forward with a massive reach advantage.

Getting Treacy as an extra back is a good idea but it’s very predictable and there is no plan B.

JLo structures are good but it’s easily scouted. No surprises.

JLo lacks the creativity to do anything different. Sure, I don’t want to go back to the Connelly and Harvey eras where every week there was a new structure. But seriously you need some variation to the game style and structure.

Definitely agree JL is too rigid and unwavering in his structures but not sure if Treacy going back is a good example. It’s typically worked but the one time he gets caught napping is in the dying stages of an elimination final. That’s on Treacy.

 

[Purple Suit]

WA has the lowest participation rate of the mainland footy states though for all Aussie rules (junior formats and senior).


If you look at just Auskick we hardly have more registered players than South Australia, and although Victoria's population is only just over double they have nearly triple the number of Auskickers.


I reckon what we would find if we dig into it is that in WA rugby union and, especially, soccer are comparatively more popular per head of population than they are in SA and Victoria and have been for a while. I also think if we dig further we would also find that overseas migration is a far greater relative contribution to WA's growth over the last generation and it is from places where they are bringing their sport with them.


This is my long winded way of saying that even though our population lead over SA has increased over the last 20, 25 years, and our size relative to Victoria increased, it hasn’t increased the talent pool by the same amounts.

Where do you get your stats from or are you talking about per Capita?

I see WA at second with 88,000 players across all formats. 600K plus

Vic - 245,000
Qld - 85,000 (32% girls)
NSW/ACT - 73,000
SA - 69,800

114,000 with a parent born overseas.

They desperately do need to fix the WA talent pathways though and stop the rort that is the Northern Academies.

 

[chaosball32]

I’m not being a hindsight hero at all.
You seem to think that we should not change up the coaching mix much at all which is fair enough but also a conservative point of view Id suggest. There’s ample evidence across multiple sports on the benefit of fresh voices in the coaching department each year. Chris Scott for example has dramatically changed his gamestyle within his Geelong coaching career on a number of occasions, and that’s even after losing prelims and grand finals, a stage JL has yet to get to.

I’d say David Hale has been a decent coach btw - he’s now the hawks midfield coach I think and is progressing nicely through his coaching career.

I’m not saying we need to have a future superstar head coach. But a fresher voice from a proven winning environment would have helped. My sense is that JL isn’t a guy to deviate much from the status quo from season to season, and I’m not sure that will be enough to win a flag. We have played mostly the same style of footy now for a few years. It’s good, but not great is probably the fairest way to evaluate it so far.
At the end of the day none of us know what the true influence of these assistant and development coaches are because it’s so hard to disentangle without being involved in the clubs inner workings. All we can judge is what we see on the field each game.

We can compare what we do to other clubs though. It was interesting that Brisbane grabbed Stuart Dew the moment GC sacked him. Whatever long term coaching strategy they had went out the window when the opportunity arose. They felt that level of coaching experience being available in their location was too good to turn down. Sydney did the same with Leon Cameron actually when the giants moved him on. Maybe we tried the same with Simpson, I don’t know.

I’d just like to see JL take more risks in his coaching career. My sense is that he’s a conservative guy that’s a bit of an “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it type”. Ironically by not changing from his formula much, he’s running a huge risk of being a coach that maxes out with a top 6 ceiling without ever being a true contender for the flag at any point, which would be a real shame. Whatever you or his more vocal supporters might think, he’s not going to reach an 8th or 9th season without a prelim appearance at least I don’t think.

I think there’s a very strong chance we will see the same freo in 2026 as we did in 2025. A good solid team that is ultimately the 5th to 7th best side in the comp. Nothing in this off season indicates there will be anything other than incremental or marginal improvements on last year. Will that enough in year seven for JL? It’s a good question actually.
If we finish 6th or 7th next year and lose week one of finals (a very realistic chance this happens btw) - without changing up too much from 2025 - should JL get an eighth year in 2027?
It’s a question that’s already looming into view even at this early stage..

Apt timing with Brisbane today announcing the signings of Liam Jones and Scott Thompson as development coaches and Daniel Lloyd replacing Stuart Dew as forwards coach. Even the 2-time reigning premiers aren’t immune to rejigging their coaching department.

While we do have a harder time luring over quality assistants, and I would advocate for an increase in our soft cap to combat this, I definitely agree the club is very comfortable with the status quo and is less receptive to change. All the messaging coming out of the club is that they believe they have the cattle on and off field to contend, yet when we inevitably fall short of these quotas, minimal change is enacted.

 

[Paracleet]

Where do you get your stats from or are you talking about per Capita?

I see WA at second with 88,000 players across all formats. 600K plus

Vic - 245,000
Qld - 85,000 (32% girls)
NSW/ACT - 73,000
SA - 69,800

114,000 with a parent born overseas.

They desperately do need to fix the WA talent pathways though and stop the rort that is the Northern Academies.

I calculated them myself. 69,800 / 1.8 million and so on.

 

[freoextra]

this might be the worst whinge ive ever seen.

complaining about an extra tall back in the last minutes of a game... righteo

Might be a bit harsh blaming JL for Tracey moving to the backline when players in the leadership group get to make their own decisions on ground. I would of still backed Tracey to be more competitive with Andrew in that situation normally.

 

[Kram]

this might be the worst whinge ive ever seen.

complaining about an extra tall back in the last minutes of a game... righteo

Classic Monday morning qb.

 

[greatgatsby]

Classic Monday morning qb.

But it might be MNF!

 

[blue shark]

Might be a bit harsh blaming JL for Tracey moving to the backline when players in the leadership group get to make their own decisions on ground. I would have still backed Tracey to be more competitive with Andrew in that situation normally.

I’ve seen coaches, premiership types turn games with defenders turned forwards.
I suppose it’s the difference in mindset of winning or saving games?

 

[Purple Suit]

With the new finals system, it turns out that JL has retrospectively made finals 3 out of the past 4 seasons. He's going to be hard to dislodge now.

 

[fnerd]

With the new finals system, it turns out that JL has retrospectively made finals 3 out of the past 4 seasons. He's going to be hard to dislodge now.

Haha ,can’t wait for the FFC propaganda team (aka senior management) to reference this line of thinking should they let jlo coach into 2027 and having seen the team not improve on this years effort

 

[BStaff17]

With the new finals system, it turns out that JL has retrospectively made finals 3 out of the past 4 seasons. He's going to be hard to dislodge now.

If the finals system was in place in 2024

Do we lose all of our last 4 games.

To me it felt like a psychological battle

If we were already guaranteed a place i daresay there would have been less pressure in those last few games and we may have finished higher.

We didnt get flogged it was small margins.