News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[danster168]

melbourne have had 7 father son selections in the last 25 years.

yeah, rookies and tokens. we're the least advantaged club in the league on this front. 1 highly rated f/s 15 years ago and 0 nga's (1 stolen). And Viney wasnt a top 5 prospect

Our flag was legit. Only fitting that it was against the gifted dogs.

 

[mpal6]

how about my dees? 1 father/son and 0 nga's in 25 years. and 1 taken away from us in Mac Andrew so back to 0.

and yep the dogs and lions are the 2 clubs who have both had crazy advantages. u really think Dees will get 2x number 1 picks in the next 50 years? 0 chance. 200 years is accurate.

I've already said Father Son is potluck. It's hard to make an argument for any club on that front. Lions were running empty for 20 years before netting 3 in quick succession. Dees were robbed of Mac Andrew I agree - you should've got him.

Your argument of 2xAshcrofts was the sole reason we won premierships is another fallacy in my view. I've just highlighted the fact that someone else got a better hand than us and it didn't guarantee anything. Dogs continued to add one more father son in Jordan Croft as well but the needle didn't move for them in terms of finals or premiership.

I'd concede that the father son is a nice icing on the cake for us which has been baking for a while. Our benefit came in the shape of all the 18/19/20 year olds who we recently drafted turning out not only pretty good but able to play finals, perform at a high level and hold their own. That goes beyond the 3 father sons and into the wider group from open draft like Wilmot, Lohmann, Morris etc.

You won't get much argument from me if you go down the path of "oh but if you paid more here for player X, then you won't be able to draft player Y". That's the rules which were put on table by AFL and we followed it.

 

[danster168]

I've already said Father Son is potluck. It's hard to make an argument for any club on that front. Lions were running empty for 20 years before netting 3 in quick succession. Dees were robbed of Mac Andrew I agree - you should've got him.

Your argument of 2xAshcrofts was the sole reason we won premierships is another fallacy in my view. I've just highlighted the fact that someone else got a better hand than us and it didn't guarantee anything. Dogs continued to add one more father son in Jordan Croft as well but the needle didn't move for them in terms of finals or premiership.

I'd concede that the father son is a nice icing on the cake for us which has been baking for a while. Our benefit came in the shape of all the 18/19/20 year olds who we recently drafted turning out not only pretty good but able to play finals, perform at a high level and hold their own. That goes beyond the 3 father sons and into the wider group from open draft like Wilmot, Lohmann, Morris etc.

You won't get much argument from me if you go down the path of "oh but if you paid more here for player X, then you won't be able to draft player Y". That's the rules which were put on table by AFL and we followed it.

yeah, but if your club didn't know that they were getting gifted 2x no.1 picks plus a first rounder in fletcher, then you wouldn't have been able to take some higher upside picks like Logan Morris as you would've needed more mids.

Let's say the Dees got given Harley Reid and Sam Lalor for super cheap i.e.the level that Brisbane got gifted, imagine the doors that it would open up for us. We could take higher upside swings at the draft, bring in players in free agency because they see a bright future, we can get aggressive at the trade period knowing that we have 15 years of service locked in. We could open up salary cap space because we have 3 rookie contracted best 22 player. Like it's an absolute joke and I was the first person on Bigfooty to repeatedly say that the Father/son and nga nonsense needed to go, like about 15 years ago for the f/s. And I was about 15 years ahead of the curve because now people are finally realising that it's ruined the comp.

So take out Ashcroft x 2, Fletcher, and say a Logan Morris and 1-2 senior players and you guys are a 6-10 team. It's far beyond just the players that you got for cheap. On the flip side add Ashcroft x 2, Fletcher and Morris to 10 teams in the afl and they all surpass you guys on the ladder.

You really think it's a coincidence that the teams near the top of the ladders are those most benefited from the awful system. Coll/Dogs/Gold Coast and Brisbane.

 

[mpal6]

yeah, but if your club didn't know that they were getting gifted 2x no.1 picks plus a first rounder in fletcher, then you wouldn't have been able to take some higher upside picks like Logan Morris as you would've needed more mids.

Let's say the Dees got given Harley Reid and Sam Lalor for super cheap i.e.the level that Brisbane got gifted, imagine the doors that it would open up for us. We could take higher upside swings at the draft, bring in players in free agency because they see a bright future, we can get aggressive at the trade period knowing that we have 15 years of service locked in. We could open up salary cap space because we have 3 rookie contracted best 22 player. Like it's an absolute joke and I was the first person on Bigfooty to repeatedly say that the Father/son and nga nonsense needed to go, like about 15 years ago for the f/s. And I was about 15 years ahead of the curve because now people are finally realising that it's ruined the comp.

So take out Ashcroft x 2, Fletcher, and say a Logan Morris and 1-2 senior players and you guys are a 6-10 team. It's far beyond just the players that you got for cheap. On the flip side add Ashcroft x 2, Fletcher and Morris to 10 teams in the afl and they all surpass you guys on the ladder.

You really think it's a coincidence that the teams near the top of the ladders are those most benefited from the awful system. Coll/Dogs/Gold Coast and Brisbane.

Every decade there is one system or event that enables whoever staying on top end up staying there longer. Consider Hawks threepeat phase or Geelong or Richmond running steady on top - there was Gold Coast and GWS launch, with top picks draft gold robbed off teams who needed the most sitting at the bottom of the ladder - Lions being one of them.

Similarly when Gold Coast and GWS had the revolving door phase - the teams down south benefited from it on a regular basis. Even you got Steven May out of it, I can make a list of players/picks that got shifted down which led to a talent transfer back to Victorian teams. Again, not a peep, since the talent drain is happening in the right direction - north to south - it's good for the game. No big noise, just musing around why AFL is knowingly losing money on a failed mission.

The moment benefit started flowing upstream and Lions or Gold Coast (thanks to Hardwick) or sydney teams start gaining, the steady crescendo has built up over the last few years. It didn't even start when Jamarra or Sam Darcy happened - the precision around this complaints are quite amusing to be honest.

I'm looking forward to Tassie phase now, coz whoever is at the bottom is going to feel that bottom of the ladder phase a bit longer thanks to Tassie plundering the drafts in succession and creating a new wave across where the picks/players are going to land.

 

[danster168]

Every decade there is one system or event that enables whoever staying on top end up staying there longer. Consider Hawks threepeat phase or Geelong or Richmond running steady on top - there was Gold Coast and GWS launch, with top picks draft gold robbed off teams who needed the most sitting at the bottom of the ladder - Lions being one of them.

Similarly when Gold Coast and GWS had the revolving door phase - the teams down south benefited from it on a regular basis. Even you got Steven May out of it, I can make a list of players/picks that got shifted down which led to a talent transfer back to Victorian teams. Again, not a peep, since the talent drain is happening in the right direction - north to south - it's good for the game. No big noise, just musing around why AFL is knowingly losing money on a failed mission.

The moment benefit started flowing upstream and Lions or Gold Coast (thanks to Hardwick) or sydney teams start gaining, the steady crescendo has built up over the last few years. It didn't even start when Jamarra or Sam Darcy happened - the precision around this complaints are quite amusing to be honest.

I'm looking forward to Tassie phase now, coz whoever is at the bottom is going to feel that bottom of the ladder phase a bit longer thanks to Tassie plundering the drafts in succession and creating a new wave across where the picks/players are going to land.

We got Steven May by handing over pick 6. So we actually used fair trade value. We didn't get him for cheap.

What system kept Richmond, Hawks and Geelong at the top?

Mentioning Gold Coast and GWS launch is totally irrelevant. We're talking about good teams being gifted flags and success with multiple pick 1's. We're not talking about lower teams being disadvantaged. That's a complete seperate issue and I think you know that hence changing the topic.

The dogs being gifted what they've got and not winning a flag is a disgrace. The Pies winning them with Darcy Moore, Daicos x 2, Quaynor etc. is what teams should do with that level of good fortune. The lions are doing what they are expected to do.

If we scrapped it all together or allowed 1 f/s or NGA pick every 15 years then it would be a much more even comp.

And no doubt the AFL corrupt. They should've handed us compensation for the Mac Andrew debacle.Not getting Mac Andrew has cost us 1 flag, a top 5 draft pick and years trying to find a key defender replacement. Absolute bs

 

[Atomboy]

1GWS GiantsAaron CadmanOriginally North Melbourne's pick, traded to GWS
.2Brisbane LionsWill AshcroftFather-Son selection (matched North Melbourne's bid).
3North MelbourneHarry Sheezel
4North MelbourneGeorge WardlawOriginally Essendon's pick.
5EssendonElijah Tsatas

He was rated a clear #1 pick, GWS obviously couldn’t be bothered bidding on him.

 

[mpal6]

We got Steven May by handing over pick 6. So we actually used fair trade value. We didn't get him for cheap.

What system kept Richmond, Hawks and Geelong at the top?

Mentioning Gold Coast and GWS launch is totally irrelevant. We're talking about good teams being gifted flags and success with multiple pick 1's. We're not talking about lower teams being disadvantaged. That's a complete seperate issue and I think you know that hence changing the topic.

The dogs being gifted what they've got and not winning a flag is a disgrace. The Pies winning them with Darcy Moore, Daicos x 2, Quaynor etc. is what teams should do with that level of good fortune. The lions are doing what they are expected to do.

If we scrapped it all together or allowed 1 f/s or NGA pick every 15 years then it would be a much more even comp.

And no doubt the AFL corrupt. They should've handed us compensation for the Mac Andrew debacle.Not getting Mac Andrew has cost us 1 flag, a top 5 draft pick and years trying to find a key defender replacement. Absolute bs

You handed over pick 6 for co-captain Steven May and Kade Kolodjashnij. It was a contracted Steven May so Gold Coast could've shut up shop if you didn't. May was a major defensive pillar in your 2021 premiership. Directly due to you benefiting from a talent drain out of an expansion club. You can dress it up in whatever terms but it was a Victorian club benefiting from interstate outpost club unable to hold on to their players.

Richmond was similar - Prestia and Lynch propping up their premiership years - it was timely when they both crossed over to provide top talent coverage for Richmond. They were keen to move and Richmond did all they can to have them. Well played, got their triple premiership along the way.

Geelong ? I'll stop at Jezza Cameron - I won't bother keep listing everyone they are able to attract every year. It's credit to their list management team and the targeted way they go after players who would be more than certain to come across to them.

Hawks were more in reference to able to stay on top longer as the talent went in big chunks to expansion clubs. Bottom clubs during that window stayed down for longer. Hawks traded players in the interim just like we are doing - bringing in Hale, Lake etc to keep that premiership window open much longer during mid-2010s. I'd say the other clubs who could've added some elite talent to challenge them properly missed it due to top talents all funneled away i.e addition of Gold Coast and GWS. I see the same now happening during Tasmania's add. Whoever is at the bottom will struggle longer to rebuild during Tasmanis's initial years - just like Lions did during 2010-2018 years.

 

[mpal6]

He was rated a clear #1 pick, GWS obviously couldn’t be bothered bidding on him.

Wardlaw was the consensus top pick that year, if not for hamstring concerns and go home factor.

 

[danster168]

You handed over pick 6 for co-captain Steven May and Kade Kolodjashnij. It was a contracted Steven May so Gold Coast could've shut up shop if you didn't. May was a major defensive pillar in your 2021 premiership. Directly due to you benefiting from a talent drain out of an expansion club. You can dress it up in whatever terms but it was a Victorian club benefiting from interstate outpost club unable to hold on to their players.

Richmond was similar - Prestia and Lynch propping up their premiership years - it was timely when they both crossed over to provide top talent coverage for Richmond. They were keen to move and Richmond did all they can to have them. Well played, got their triple premiership along the way.

Geelong ? I'll stop at Jezza Cameron - I won't bother keep listing everyone they are able to attract every year. It's credit to their list management team and the targeted way they go after players who would be more than certain to come across to them.

Hawks were more in reference to able to stay on top longer as the talent went in big chunks to expansion clubs. Bottom clubs during that window stayed down for longer. Hawks traded players in the interim just like we are doing - bringing in Hale, Lake etc to keep that premiership window open much longer during mid-2010s. I'd say the other clubs who could've added some elite talent to challenge them properly missed it due to top talents all funneled away i.e addition of Gold Coast and GWS. I see the same now happening during Tasmania's add. Whoever is at the bottom will struggle longer to rebuild during Tasmanis's initial years - just like Lions did during 2010-2018 years.

Yeah, we handed over pick 6, a very good pick for Steven May. It was either May or Ben King. Why are you talking about offering up pick 6 for Steven May when Brisbane cough up picks in the 20's for a pick 1? lol. Embarrassing to even compare.


Did Rich get Presita and Lynch for free? That's news to me. Did Geelong get Jeremy Cameron for free? What are you even talking about! You've literally just proven my point. Normal teams get better by paying reasonable value at the draft or trade. Brisbane just get gifted father/sons by the afl who conveniently waited until they'd cashed in before changing the ridiculous rules.

 

[mpal6]

Yeah, we handed over pick 6, a very good pick for Steven May. It was either May or Ben King. Why are you talking about offering up pick 6 for Steven May when Brisbane cough up picks in the 20's for a pick 1? lol. Embarrassing to even compare.


Did Rich get Presita and Lynch for free? That's news to me. Did Geelong get Jeremy Cameron for free? What are you even talking about! You've literally just proven my point. Normal teams get better by paying reasonable value at the draft or trade. Brisbane just get gifted father/sons by the afl who conveniently waited until they'd cashed in before changing the ridiculous rules.

Mate, you kept arguing how your premiership is so legit when you've benefited from the same factor around talent drain from expansion clubs to Victorian clubs. A co-captain of the club got nabbed by you who played the important fullback role in your premiership squad - massive asterisk on your premiership too !

You really don't have a leg to stand on and complaint about others when you've been equally guilty of leveraging go home factor of expansion club players to your advantage.

 

[danster168]

Mate, you kept arguing how your premiership is so legit when you've benefited from the same factor around talent drain from expansion clubs to Victorian clubs. A co-captain of the club got nabbed by you who played the important fullback role in your premiership squad - massive asterisk on your premiership too !

You really don't have a leg to stand on and complaint about others when you've been equally guilty of leveraging go home factor of expansion club players to your advantage.

uhhh..nabbed? with an early 1st round pick. LOOOOOLL meanwhile you get 2x no.1 picks for free. lol. love the attempt to compare them though. nice try.

 

[mpal6]

uhhh..nabbed? with an early 1st round pick. LOOOOOLL meanwhile you get 2x no.1 picks for free. lol. love the attempt to compare them though. nice try.

Mate - once you realized your club's premiership is also built via picking off one of expansion clubs best players and using their co-captain as your full back pillar, its interesting to watch you get all defensive about it. You have no standing in higher moral ground, looks like your club did the same thing fleecing expansion club talent using the rules at that time.

A contracted Neale cost us 5, 18. But a contracted 100+ game co-captain along with kolo cost you pick 6. Talk about robbing gullible gold coast.

Massive asterisk on your premiership too. You can stop the holier than thou posture now.

 

[danster168]

Mate - once you realized your club's premiership is also built via picking off one of expansion clubs best players and using their co-captain as your full back pillar, its interesting to watch you get all defensive about it. You have no standing in higher moral ground, looks like your club did the same thing fleecing expansion club talent using the rules at that time.

A contracted Neale cost us 5, 18. But a contracted 100+ game co-captain along with kolo cost you pick 6. Talk about robbing gullible gold coast.

Massive asterisk on your premiership too. You can stop the holier than thou posture now.

picking off? hilarious Despite using a high end pick to get him. A high end pick that would've been Ben King Fancy a team winning a flag with trading. You're the one getting defensive over what is a complete rabble. And I love how you call Gold Coast an expansion club. Yeah, Steven May had only been in the league 8 years already by the time we got him.

And the fact that you say 'co-captain' as if that means anything is hilarious. He wasn't our co-captain. You know who was a captain Simpkin. No-one wanted him.

Our premiership was special because we did it the hard way. 1 father/son and 0 NGA's in the last 30 years, finished on top of the ladder and never got to play at Home. You guys just got gift-wrapped 2 x no.1 picks and Fletcher and others.

Don't get salty.

Ummm, you just said Neale cost you pick 5 and 18 and May cost us pick 6. Literally just demonstrating how fair both trades were. Weird that you would even demonstrate that. Oh wait, Kolodjashnij. How could I forget. A guy that had done nothing at afl level and had no trade value due to repeat concussions that ended his career. Lol that you think he was worth even mentioning in terms of trade value.

 

[Miller1971]

May was also damaged goods from a cultural perspective, and while he had good years at Melbourne - the same issues appear to be lingering. Pick 6 was more than fair.

I don't think the AFL has 'gifted' any father/sons to anyone. the rules have been in play for years and consistently over time have been getting tightened more and more without making it impossible for kids to get to their Dad's club due to unfortunate timing around ladder position.

The F/S issue has just been exasperated by Brisbane getting 2 x Ashcroft and Fletcher in the middle of a premiership window. Had these 3 come along in 2015, nobody would have given 2 shits about it, or the rules to secure them.

All this means, is the rules will get tightened again because people are absolute sooks. Father/son access was never about equalisation, its a great rule for romance and footy culture and you can't make it fair because the timing of when a club may or may not have access to a gun father/son is completely random and unforseen.

 

[Atomboy]

May was also damaged goods from a cultural perspective, and while he had good years at Melbourne - the same issues appear to be lingering. Pick 6 was more than fair.

I don't think the AFL has 'gifted' any father/sons to anyone. the rules have been in play for years and consistently over time have been getting tightened more and more without making it impossible for kids to get to their Dad's club due to unfortunate timing around ladder position.

The F/S issue has just been exasperated by Brisbane getting 2 x Ashcroft and Fletcher in the middle of a premiership window. Had these 3 come along in 2015, nobody would have given 2 shits about it, or the rules to secure them.

All this means, is the rules will get tightened again because people are absolute sooks. Father/son access was never about equalisation, its a great rule for romance and footy culture and you can't make it fair because the timing of when a club may or may not have access to a gun father/son is completely random and unforseen.

Presumably there will still be romance when clubs are forced to pay a decent price ?.

Tom Hawkins being picked at #41 in 2006 despite being considered a top 3 pick is the most egregious example I can think of. 20 years on and the system is finally getting tightened.

If current rules applied back in 2006, Geelong also would have lost access to Joel Selwood in the same draft. Interesting sliding doors moment.

 

[Miller1971]

Presumably there will still be romance when clubs are forced to pay a decent price ?.

Tom Hawkins being picked at #41 in 2006 despite being considered a top 3 pick is the most egregious example I can think of. 20 years on and the system is finally getting tightened.

If current rules applied back in 2006, Geelong also would have lost access to Joel Selwood in the same draft. Interesting sliding doors moment.

thats my point. It's been continually tightened over a period of 20 years.

However, nobody will be happy until someone simply can't get one and then its will suddenly be considered fair.

Even though, there are some examples of players not being matched by their fathers club (when able to do so) and going on to be a star (Dunkley as one) or not being rated by other clubs, or their own and going super late in the draft and also going on to be a star (J.Daicos as one).

There are also cases like Brayden Shaw, who would have gone Top 5 in the open draft, Collingwod got him on the cheap as a F/S and he never even got a game.

It's not a perfect science and I think clubs are paying a pretty fair price for F/S talent in the modern system

Just so happens that The Lions in particular got 3 stars in 3 years in the first round, when right in contention and 2 of them were probably consensus #1 picks in the open draft (even though its the other clubs responsibility to bid on them at 1, or even 2 to make them pay a higher price). On the other hand, Fletcher at 12 was probably a surprise to many, including Brisbane - but gee it looks like a bargain now in hindsight.

 

[Viceregal]

The F/S issue has just been exasperated by Brisbane getting 2 x Ashcroft and Fletcher in the middle of a premiership window. Had these 3 come along in 2015, nobody would have given 2 shits about it, or the rules to secure them.

If they had come along in 2015/16 they might well have done a Murphy and hoped to drafted by a better prospective team or been part of the go home 8

Or worse yet they might have extended Leppa's tenure and we might have missed out on the Fagan revival ... weirdly enough getting them earlier could even have been bad for the club (sliding doors wise)

 

[threenewpadlocks]

It's not a perfect science and I think clubs are paying a pretty fair price for F/S talent in the modern system

I think the issue arises out of the fact that this is at least the theory (nominated club has to pay 90% of the rough draft assets in a fair draft that they're worth in the open draft pool), but this never plays out in reality given the manipulation around the DVI system that teams can play - Gold Coast moved around quite literally hundreds of assets over several years, with incremental, marginal gains on each, manipulating draft day trades, future trades, the arbitrage value of DVI points attached to a pick vs how most clubs value the pick in reality, trades between draft day but after clubs are allowed to be traded, bids meaning picks move up and down, etc. to get to their point where they were paying more like 50%, rather than 90%, per eligible player from where they started.

If the idea is "another club wants this player at pick 18, you have to draft them at pick 21, and you either have to own pick 21 or trade out a player for a pick 21 in a one-for-one swap", people don't really have an issue with that.

In 2008 only 6 total trades were made with only 17 assets (draft picks and players) swapping hands across those 6 trades. Almost quaint to think about, even though that was the very same draft that still has players running around next year (Sidebottom, Stanley, etc.), so it's not that long ago. Things have moved quickly.

It's almost as if the AFL's invented a system where they have this lag effect where they still have that mentality of that 2008 era where teams are very quiet at trade week, but they're not, and they're incredibly slow to adjust to how teams manipulate draft advantages.

 

[danster168]

May was also damaged goods from a cultural perspective, and while he had good years at Melbourne - the same issues appear to be lingering. Pick 6 was more than fair.

I don't think the AFL has 'gifted' any father/sons to anyone. the rules have been in play for years and consistently over time have been getting tightened more and more without making it impossible for kids to get to their Dad's club due to unfortunate timing around ladder position.

The F/S issue has just been exasperated by Brisbane getting 2 x Ashcroft and Fletcher in the middle of a premiership window. Had these 3 come along in 2015, nobody would have given 2 shits about it, or the rules to secure them.

All this means, is the rules will get tightened again because people are absolute sooks. Father/son access was never about equalisation, its a great rule for romance and footy culture and you can't make it fair because the timing of when a club may or may not have access to a gun father/son is completely random and unforseen.

well you can make it fair. by getting rid of it. Tell me, does anyone actually care that Jack Sillvagni went to StKilda? Are Carlton fans devastated over it? No. How about when Taj Woewodin got delisted? Were the dees fans sooking about it? How about when Lachie Hunter went to the dees, were the dogs fans needing to be consoled? The romance of the father/son is one of the biggest myths in footy.

 

[Miller1971]

I think the issue arises out of the fact that this is at least the theory (nominated club has to pay 90% of the rough draft assets in a fair draft that they're worth in the open draft pool), but this never plays out in reality given the manipulation around the DVI system that teams can play - Gold Coast moved around quite literally hundreds of assets over several years, with incremental, marginal gains on each, manipulating draft day trades, future trades, the arbitrage value of DVI points attached to a pick vs how most clubs value the pick in reality, trades between draft day but after clubs are allowed to be traded, bids meaning picks move up and down, etc. to get to their point where they were paying more like 50%, rather than 90%, per eligible player from where they started.

So they were smart and strategic in acquiring the neccessary assets to match bids within the current rules.

You call it 'manipulation', where I might call it 'strategic'. Spending several years making small trades with competing clubs to increase your bid matching hands seems bloody smart and forward thinking, and pretty ironic that those clubs that complete those hundreds of trades with them might be upset at the end outcome?'

Meanwhile, we have a wooden spooner, who won a flag only 7 years ago and has more money than most clubs who can't even operate a basic draft simulator on draft night, when a 10 year old could probably get Chat GTP to build them one on excel in 10 minutes to do what it needs to do.

 

[Miller1971]

well you can make it fair. by getting rid of it. Tell me, does anyone actually care that Jack Sillvagni went to StKilda? Are Carlton fans devastated over it? No. How about when Taj Woewodin got delisted? Were the dees fans sooking about it? How about when Lachie Hunter went to the dees, were the dogs fans needing to be consoled? The romance of the father/son is one of the biggest myths in footy.

Thats perfectly valid opinion.

It's not one I share, and I barrack for a club who has a production line of father/son talent similar to the English production line of talented cricketers.

But at least you share your opinion that you just don't like father/son, as opposed to thinking there is some conspiracy theory around the continued tightening of the rules to favour certain clubs.

I personally like father/son, and I think the rules have tightened sufficiently to a point that clubs aren't getting freebie superstars, but at least paying 'reasonable' value as opposed to the mythical 'fair value'. After all, the value any club pays is largely determined by one or more of the other 17 clubs.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

So they were smart and strategic in acquiring the neccessary assets to match bids within the current rules.

You call it 'manipulation', where I might call it 'strategic'.

It's only strategic in the sense that the AFL has allowed it to happen with bad frameworks and systems though - the DVI draft curve being inaccurate, being able to use four picks to match one player, allowing draft day trades for points more than open list spots etc. are all the reasons that true value played is nowhere near 80% or 90%.

While it is a lot more complex it is still just as bad in practice (if not intention) as Pick 2 Hawkins going pick 41, and the AFL have been slow to realise/act on that.

 

[mpal6]

picking off? hilarious Despite using a high end pick to get him. A high end pick that would've been Ben King Fancy a team winning a flag with trading. You're the one getting defensive over what is a complete rabble. And I love how you call Gold Coast an expansion club. Yeah, Steven May had only been in the league 8 years already by the time we got him.

And the fact that you say 'co-captain' as if that means anything is hilarious. He wasn't our co-captain. You know who was a captain Simpkin. No-one wanted him.

Our premiership was special because we did it the hard way. 1 father/son and 0 NGA's in the last 30 years, finished on top of the ladder and never got to play at Home. You guys just got gift-wrapped 2 x no.1 picks and Fletcher and others.

Don't get salty.

Ummm, you just said Neale cost you pick 5 and 18 and May cost us pick 6. Literally just demonstrating how fair both trades were. Weird that you would even demonstrate that. Oh wait, Kolodjashnij. How could I forget. A guy that had done nothing at afl level and had no trade value due to repeat concussions that ended his career. Lol that you think he was worth even mentioning in terms of trade value.

Salty? Mate, you used the same talent funneling channel (North to South) to bridge a major gap in full back in your list. In that process you got a premiership as well. Massive asterisk, you are nothing but same as other clubs who did the same over the last few years so please stop with the we did the hard way, legit way etc.

2022 premiership * - Geelong - Jeremy Cameron
2021 premiership * - Demons - Steven May
2020 premiership * - Richmond - Lynch/Prestia

All borrowed talents from northern clubs to benefit Victorian clubs. No wonder we were only having talent drain conversations back then but it stayed as noise as the VFL was gaining either way.

 

[Purple Suit]

Salty? Mate, you used the same talent funneling channel (North to South) to bridge a major gap in full back in your list. In that process you got a premiership as well. Massive asterisk, you are nothing but same as other clubs who did the same over the last few years so please stop with the we did the hard way, legit way etc.

2022 premiership * - Geelong - Jeremy Cameron
2021 premiership * - Demons - Steven May
2020 premiership * - Richmond - Lynch/Prestia

All borrowed talents from northern clubs to benefit Victorian clubs. No wonder we were only having talent drain conversations back then but it stayed as noise as the VFL was gaining either way.

You realise you got talent out of other clubs too and don’t win your flags without them? Lachie Neale, Cameron & Dunkley all critical to your team.

Freo lost as much talent as Brisbane did but never got a free priority pick because of it. It’s the double standards from the AFL house and Nepo babies getting special treatment that is bullshit.

 

[mpal6]

You realise you got talent out of other clubs too and don’t win your flags without them? Lachie Neale, Cameron & Dunkley all critical to your team.

Freo lost as much talent as Brisbane did but never got a free priority pick because of it. It’s the double standards from the AFL house and Nepo babies getting special treatment that is bullshit.

I believe every club does, we did/still do and I have no arguments against it. That's the nature of the beast and whoever is on top is bound to attract talent, which gets dressed up a little bit of lifestyle, culture, team bonding and other herbs n spices sprinkled over it.

It's when argument gets made as if one club has built everything from scratch that I felt the need to highlight it. Everyone is the same depending on when they're in the window.