Marriage equality debate - The plebiscite is on its way. (Cont in Pt 3)

[Gough]

The Muslims in Australia can pick a winner, you haven't heard any Imams speaking publicly on this issue. For once it's the Christians looking like the unreconstructed morons.

 

[chelseacarlton]

The point was the research he discussed, not his appearance. Why are you trying to make this about me?

Because of your religious opinion,formed in the infancy of our civilisation!
You know,when they believed the sun revolved around the earth,disease was a curse from a neighbouring tribe,faminine was a curse from god etc.
Outdated opinions hold no currency!

 

[chelseacarlton]

And as someone religious i regularly hear and put up with attacks on my faith. I dont retaliate with personal insults so it is possible

If your beliefs can't stand up to the rigours of robust debate and you view them as insults to your faith,then perhaps it's time to re-evaluate your beliefs and faith?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Some of the things reportingly being said in the sydney mosques are frightning far more homophobic than other religions

You guys are hating the gays in this thread. Don't get sidetracked. Use one of the 1,397 muslims threads.

 

[Showbags]

What ever would we do without Cory Bernardi around to remind us of our morals.

http://www.news.com.au/national/sou...s/news-story/b4838ce3e57f8d9f8a8eb186e5c2396e

It was a two for one deal for Cory. Have a dip at both queers and blacks. But it failed spectacularly as the charity day ended up raising $10, 000 over its target (thus ensuring plenty more wear a dress days in the future).

 

[WA ROO]

Who could have guessed.

Not as if I hid it

 

[skilts]

Not as if I hid it

It required the full panoply of my investigative powers to expose you.

 

[Procrastinator35]

See, this is where you're wrong. He's actually a knave...and a cad...oh...and a bounder.

Don't confound the lad with you're 19th C nomenclature.

 

[pazza]

What ever would we do without Cory Bernardi around to remind us of our morals.

http://www.news.com.au/national/sou...s/news-story/b4838ce3e57f8d9f8a8eb186e5c2396e

It was a two for one deal for Cory. Have a dip at both queers and blacks. But it failed spectacularly as the charity day ended up raising $10, 000 over its target (thus ensuring plenty more wear a dress days in the future).

Indeed.

The Twitter world owned him from pillar to post on that one.

 

[Halloween Jack]

Hey guys,

I received my vote yesterday, but I only saw the question about same sex marriage. Checked the envelope three times, turned the page over and everything. Does anyone know when I will receive the ballot asking about:
- freedom of speech
- safe schools
- freedom of religion etc?

thanks,

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Hey guys,

I received my vote yesterday, but I only saw the question about same sex marriage. Checked the envelope three times, turned the page over and everything. Does anyone know when I will receive the ballot asking about:
- freedom of speech
- safe schools
- freedom of religion etc?

thanks,

Just remember if you vote YES the Baby Jesus, the Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him), Buddha, Krishna and Aquaman, together with a supercomputer called Moses will form a group called The Super Best Friends™ and destroy the Earth, just like they did when all them other countries legalised it.

So support unease. Support morbid fear. Vote NO on same-sex marriage!

 

[Nikita Blue]

What ever would we do without Cory Bernardi around to remind us of our morals.

http://www.news.com.au/national/sou...s/news-story/b4838ce3e57f8d9f8a8eb186e5c2396e

It was a two for one deal for Cory. Have a dip at both queers and blacks. But it failed spectacularly as the charity day ended up raising $10, 000 over its target (thus ensuring plenty more wear a dress days in the future).

Haha - what a fool.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

What ever would we do without Cory Bernardi around to remind us of our morals.

http://www.news.com.au/national/sou...s/news-story/b4838ce3e57f8d9f8a8eb186e5c2396e

It was a two for one deal for Cory. Have a dip at both queers and blacks. But it failed spectacularly as the charity day ended up raising $10, 000 over its target (thus ensuring plenty more wear a dress days in the future).

The Religious Right is an awesome advertising agency. Take heavy metal in the 1980's. The 'Satanic' angle was manufactured to stir the growing Moral Majority movement in the U.S.. You put a devil on your album cover. They get outraged. They burn records. They boost your sales figures.

Cue much conservative gnashing of teeth and heavy metal bands having more money than they know what to do with.

 

[Forward Press]

The Barbara Streisand effect. Surprised more savvy politicians haven't cottoned onto this - like with Trump's election, for example - said some controversial things to get negative media coverage - but negative media coverage is better than no media coverage. Hence the easy win in the Republican primaries and you know what happened after...

 

[nicky]

The real "slippery slope" argument is that if we can put marriage equality to a popular vote then we can put any civil rights to a popular vote.

THIS is the slipoery slope.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The real "slippery slope" argument is that if we can put marriage equality to a popular vote then we can put any civil rights to a popular vote.

THIS is the slipoery slope.

This is true. Most slopes are slippery, when you think about it. Socio-economic momentum and all that...

 

[Showbags]

One good thing coming out of the firing of the worker advocating a No vote is that we now know the likes of Eric Abetz and the other conservatives will be first to come out in condemnation of a Catholic organisation who fires their employee for their views..... right?......right?

 

[Frank Bunn]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1753-6405.12432/abstract

"The mental health benefits of relationship formalisation among lesbians and gay men in same-sex relationships".

I got round to taking a look at this. They did a good job of making it look scientific but, like I said, the devil is in the detail.

Participation was by a voluntary on-line survey by GLBT-community networks. The promotion of the survey had an emphasis on discrimination. This is known as Snowball Sampling, which has the effect that the sample may not be representative of the population being studied. It commonly has the effect of skewing the results towards that of motivated individuals.

Despite their claims of widespread promotion of the survey they only ended up with 1,420 participants, which is a very small sample size from a population of about 750,000. Also, a very small number of participants over the age of 65 were included - who were found to have the lowest levels of mental distress.

In summary, their results were as follows : being in a formalised relationship was associated with lower distress for those aged 16–39 years but not for those aged 40+ years. When the two groups were combined there was a very weak association between being in a formalised relationship and lower
distress, which probably would have disappeared if a more representative number of > 65s were included.

The researchers then went on to state their conclusions and implications.

Relationship formalisation appears to be an important protective factor for mental health among gay men and lesbians, especially among younger sexual minority individuals. These findings suggest that affording same-sex couples the opportunity to formalise their relationship is not only a civil rights issue but also a public health issue.

These claims cannot be justified by the results.

• The sampling was poor in terms of both quantity and quality.
• The results were inconsistent across age groups and probably insignificant overall.
• The researchers conflate correlation with causation. It could be that positive mental health is a contributing factor towards maintaining relationships.

The discussion section of the paper smacks of advocacy rather than a scientific paper, Which is not surprising given that the senior researcher is Director, Gay and Lesbian Health Victoria - an academic, policy analyst and community advocate with over 20 years experience in the area of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and intersex (GLBTI) health and wellbeing.

 

[Mofra]

Participation was by a voluntary on-line survey by GLBT-community networks. The promotion of the survey had an emphasis on discrimination. This is known as Snowball Sampling, which has the effect that the sample may not be representative of the population being studied. It commonly has the effect of skewing the results towards that of motivated individuals.

Unfortunately, like a non-compulsory postal plebiscite.

 

[Belnakor]

I got round to taking a look at this.

These claims cannot be justified by the results.

• The sampling was poor in terms of both quantity and quality.
• The results were inconsistent across age groups and probably insignificant overall.
• The researchers conflate correlation with causation. It could be that positive mental health is a contributing factor towards maintaining relationships.

The discussion section of the paper smacks of advocacy rather than a scientific paper, Which is not surprising given that the senior researcher is Director, Gay and Lesbian Health Victoria - an academic, policy analyst and community advocate with over 20 years experience in the area of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and intersex (GLBTI) health and wellbeing.

nice one. I just read the summary as a lazy man did without looking at the sample. So essentially it was a self selected online survey.. literally one of the least reliable types of surveys possible... 20% unemployment with 41% earning below 1k a week (below minimum wage so a significant portion must be part time - explains why they have time to do online surveys)

On this basis i will draw the conclusion that gay/lesbian people are lazy dole bludgers.

 

[Belnakor]

Unfortunately, like a non-compulsory postal plebiscite.

exactly why it should have been a proper plebiscite

 

[Belnakor]

i watched an interview today with the girl who canned from her job for saying its OK to vote no.

Based on the behaviour of the woman who fired her and how sympathic the girl comes across, it almost seems setup by the No vote.

If the woman was on an online form people would be claiming she was a strawman sock puppet.

 

[Belnakor]

One good thing coming out of the firing of the worker advocating a No vote is that we now know the likes of Eric Abetz and the other conservatives will be first to come out in condemnation of a Catholic organisation who fires their employee for their views..... right?......right?

I think thats fine the same way i was working for some kind of Gay rights organization and was posting about "voting no"

 

[Showbags]

I got round to taking a look at this. They did a good job of making it look scientific but, like I said, the devil is in the detail.

Participation was by a voluntary on-line survey by GLBT-community networks. The promotion of the survey had an emphasis on discrimination. This is known as Snowball Sampling, which has the effect that the sample may not be representative of the population being studied. It commonly has the effect of skewing the results towards that of motivated individuals.

Despite their claims of widespread promotion of the survey they only ended up with 1,420 participants, which is a very small sample size from a population of about 750,000. Also, a very small number of participants over the age of 65 were included - who were found to have the lowest levels of mental distress.

In summary, their results were as follows : being in a formalised relationship was associated with lower distress for those aged 16–39 years but not for those aged 40+ years. When the two groups were combined there was a very weak association between being in a formalised relationship and lower
distress, which probably would have disappeared if a more representative number of > 65s were included.

The researchers then went on to state their conclusions and implications.



These claims cannot be justified by the results.

• The sampling was poor in terms of both quantity and quality.
• The results were inconsistent across age groups and probably insignificant overall.
• The researchers conflate correlation with causation. It could be that positive mental health is a contributing factor towards maintaining relationships.

The discussion section of the paper smacks of advocacy rather than a scientific paper, Which is not surprising given that the senior researcher is Director, Gay and Lesbian Health Victoria - an academic, policy analyst and community advocate with over 20 years experience in the area of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and intersex (GLBTI) health and wellbeing.

How is a sample size of 1, 400 not a decent enough sample size? That's a pretty normal sample size for such a population.

Also the study suggests that the reasons for the different result in age brackets is:

Minority stress can be most severe for young sexual minority individuals;32 it is likely that the protective effects of public recognition and social inclusion are even greater for this vulnerable group. Given that psychiatric morbidity is grossly over-represented among young same-sex attracted individuals,33 this finding has great utility when considered within a preventative framework.
​

It was still concluded that for the 16-39 age bracket there was an association between relationship formalization and mental health. You dismissed the findings for this group entirely without considering the possible reasons for the difference between age groups.

It also cites a longitudinal study in its findings for heterosexual marital relationships that concluded:

Findings confirmed the strong effects of marital status on psychological well-being, supporting the protection perspective. The effect of the quality of marital (cohabiting) relationship on psychological well-being was significant, but the strong effect of marital status remained unchanged after controlling for relationship quality.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/019251302237296
​

 

[Saint]

Some of the things reportingly being said in the sydney mosques are frightning far more homophobic than other religions

If the white supremacists voting "no" find out they're voting for a version of Sharia law, would their heads simultaneously explode?

It's the first time in living memory I've seen a political topic debated based on purely religious grounds. If Sharia law was ever a chance of happening, then a 'no' vote now would be the logical first step.