Hot Topic Heppell calls for patience

[Lore]

What an inspirational video.

It's really up to us, the fans, to show some passion. We are the ones who can literally change the fortunes of this football club.

The players? Meh, they can plod around putting in half efforts while getting paid $100,000s. It's the fans who need to turn up to games. Never again will we lose at Marvel so long as us, the fans, do our part.

And if you haven't already please consider making a contribution to The Flight Plan.

Saw that earlier, the whole website is skinned with it as well. I think the marketing department had already done this up a few weeks ago and was planning to release it before the first home game, and didn't really bother to rethink it in the context of the week we've just had. Bit poor I think.

 

[BrunoV]

All clubs tend to try and thread a thin line between top up and young. I think the issue has been available midfield. We have thrown our hat into the ring for everyone who has been available. I know where you are going with this. You are questioning Saad , Smith and Stringer. The issue is if we did not go after quality players then who should we have picked. None gave us the midfield we wanted but all three do fill parts we needed. Last year we land gun midfielder number 1 but we still need number two and maybe number 3 as most of our blokes are B grade and to make it worse are not the desperate role paying B grade that other clubs have.
It hurt us on Saturday that Zak Merritt who is supposed to be one of our A grade midfielders did pretty much zero.

I think the club is rebuilding. We have not targeted players who are over 25. We have gone after blokes who can give us 5 or 6 years of decent footy.
It looks like the 2016 draft will be decent. 2015 is still to be played out but Parish , Francis and Redman look like they can make it.
It is the picks like Alex Morgan or Houlihan that seem to hurt as far as not taking a midfielder go as well as Langford not quite being at the level and the constant injuries to Laverde. Plus the fact we drafted Clarke who is a good midfielder but thus far has not been able to correct his kicking.
Kobe Much having a patchy pre season has also put him out of the picture.

If we're rebuilding we use the picks we traded on midfielders and we trade more players out.

I dont believe for a second that anyone in the football department believes we're rebuilding. It would be a rebuild from the roof down on a foundation of sand.

I'm not even sure list management and coaching are in the same chapter in the same book.

This is what I have always thought would be the lingering impact of the saga. Just another reason not to make any hard decisions.

 

[JayJ20]

What an inspirational video.

It's really up to us, the fans, to show some passion. We are the ones who can literally change the fortunes of this football club.

The players? Meh, they can plod around putting in half efforts while getting paid $100,000s. It's the fans who need to turn up to games. Never again will we lose at Marvel so long as us, the fans, do our part.

And if you haven't already please consider making a contribution to The Flight Plan.

Heppell is right. The fans can make a big difference. We do the heavy lifting anyway.

Once Essendon hit the lead, we’ll all go onto the ground to provide team defence. That way, St Kilda can’t get clear possession. They’ll likely turn the ball over. If we provide the defensive press for the rest of the game, we win.

 

[DapperJong]

Gotta keep watching sheeds from 93

 

[Old Campaigner]

What an inspirational video.

It's really up to us, the fans, to show some passion. We are the ones who can literally change the fortunes of this football club.

The players? Meh, they can plod around putting in half efforts while getting paid $100,000s. It's the fans who need to turn up to games. Never again will we lose at Marvel so long as us, the fans, do our part.

And if you haven't already please consider making a contribution to The Flight Plan.

Wouldn't it be a pisser if they flopped against the saints too after making that

 

[jmoo wan]

Wouldn't it be a pisser if they flopped against the saints too after making that

did you watch the video? it will be our fault if they flop against the saints. We just didn’t wave our flags with enough vigour.

 

[Jobe Watson]

did you watch the video? it will be our fault if they flop against the saints. We just didn’t wave our flags with enough vigour.

1 scarf wave = 1 Dyson Heppell effective disposal.

Do your part.

 

[Old Campaigner]

did you watch the video? it will be our fault if they flop against the saints. We just didn’t wave our flags with enough vigour.

Does yelling at the tv count?

 

[yaco55]

The less media the players/coaches perform the better - Sometimes it's best to be silent.

 

[ant555]

If we're rebuilding we use the picks we traded on midfielders and we trade more players out.

I dont believe for a second that anyone in the football department believes we're rebuilding. It would be a rebuild from the roof down on a foundation of sand.

I'm not even sure list management and coaching are in the same chapter in the same book.

This is what I have always thought would be the lingering impact of the saga. Just another reason not to make any hard decisions.

I may sound a bit pedantic but there’s a difference between rebuilding and building. We are building on the base of decent players we had left from the previous build. We went to the draft when we had top end picks then we have gone down the trade path the last two years. You can question who we pick but the club has been on record as saying we want to improve the list. For mine that is building the list rather than a rebuild where you strip it away.

 

[BrunoV]

I may sound a bit pedantic but there’s a difference between rebuilding and building. We are building on the base of decent players we had left from the previous build. We went to the draft when we had top end picks then we have gone down the trade path the last two years. You can question who we pick but the club has been on record as saying we want to improve the list. For mine that is building the list rather than a rebuild where you strip it away.

Its two sides of the same coin isn't it?

I suppose my problem is that building or rebuilding we seem to be missing the point, the most important part of the ground.

I think with the benefit of hindsight we can clearly say that Dodoro does not have enough respect for midfield craft. The only player we have brought in that goes part of the way to making our midfield look top 8 is Shiel.

What have we got for 5 years of drafts? Two genuine centre square mids, one (Parish) whose inside work was not a strength and a second (Clarke) whose kicking is so flawed an inside mid who would otherwise have been in the conversation for top 20 (that he's been prolific as a 19/20 year old VFL mid probably proves as much) fell to 67. In my view Mutch looks and plays like a wingman and is a wingman until it's proven otherwise. I'd need to see something spectacularly different before I'd look forward to see him taking a centre bounce at AFL level.

Clearly Dodoro has to get credited with some rational motivation for making decisions. It seems to me clear enough that the grunt has been recruited as projects to develop in the middle.

Herein lies the problem, we dont develop any of these players as midfielders. It's why I think that the way forward is something closer to baseball's GM model, and I think it's more a case of coaches becomes managers as I dont see list managers having the required skill or experience.

You'll cite injury, and fair enough, but the truth will be exposed in a month when Begley and Laverde are playing forward and Redman is in defence. Ridley will be playing AFL in defence probably minding a ruckman.

When the project we develop as the mid is the least competitive of these hybrids it's more evidence of the overall attitude.

It's almost like the 3 minutes on ball Stinger might be capable of a quarter is enough.

I've been happy enough to make the arguments in favour of Dodoro, because the big picture is more important than single decisions at any given point. Problem is that 3 years later the path forward is no clearer.

Edit: I also think that recruiting players because they are available is fraught with risk. You do it carefully making sure that you maintain a good balance or not at all. Recruiting to change perception to recruit more player is amateur hour.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Wasn't just Dimma if I remember right. Didn't they sack all of their assistants and have a board challenge (that failed)? Nek minit

Sorry to intrude, but yes we got rid of all the assistants except Rutten and brought in Caracalla (hands off) and Leppitsch came back as well as bringing in Balme after Eddie McGure shafted him and brought Gubby Allen in to work above him so he walked, then Allen was suspended for a year

 

[ant555]

Its two sides of the same coin isn't it?

I suppose my problem is that building or rebuilding we seem to be missing the point, the most important part of the ground.

I think with the benefit of hindsight we can clearly say that Dodoro does not have enough respect for midfield craft. The only player we have brought in that goes part of the way to making our midfield look top 8 is Shiel.

What have we got for 5 years of drafts? Two genuine centre square mids, one (Parish) whose inside work was not a strength and a second (Clarke) whose kicking is so flawed an inside mid who would otherwise have been in the conversation for top 20 (that he's been prolific as a 19/20 year old VFL mid probably proves as much) fell to 67. In my view Mutch looks and plays like a wingman and is a wingman until it's proven otherwise. I'd need to see something spectacularly different before I'd look forward to see him taking a centre bounce at AFL level.

Clearly Dodoro has to get credited with some rational motivation for making decisions. It seems to me clear enough that the grunt has been recruited as projects to develop in the middle.

Herein lies the problem, we dont develop any of these players as midfielders. It's why I think that the way forward is something closer to baseball's GM model, and I think it's more a case of coaches becomes managers as I dont see list managers having the required skill or experience.

You'll cite injury, and fair enough, but the truth will be exposed in a month when Begley and Laverde are playing forward and Redman is in defence. Ridley will be playing AFL in defence probably minding a ruckman.

When the project we develop as the mid is the least competitive of these hybrids it's more evidence of the overall attitude.

It's almost like the 3 minutes on ball Stinger might be capable of a quarter is enough.

I've been happy enough to make the arguments in favour of Dodoro, because the big picture is more important than single decisions at any given point. Problem is that 3 years later the path forward is no clearer.

Edit: I also think that recruiting players because they are available is fraught with risk. You do it carefully making sure that you maintain a good balance or not at all. Recruiting to change perception to recruit more player is amateur hour.

I think you may be onto something with Dodoro as we do select a lot of players who we try and turn into midfielders. As far as rebuild goes I think if we went rebuild then we may well have looked more seriously at offer for Hooker and Hurley at the time as well as moving on Myers when he had interest in him. That is why I said building rather than rebuild. We kept key players and have been adding to that rather than getting the broom out. The problem may well be selection of players. McGrath is a great young player and will be for a long time > I was happy with the pick but IMO Tim Tarranto was the best genuine midfielder in that draft.
We did have a crack at getting Setterfield who is a genuine midfielder and the fact that injury and slow development has stifled a couple of them.
Parish was in the best 3 midfielders in the TAC when he was drafted. In hindsight it would have been better to go with Ryan Clarke or Brayden Sier over Morgan which is easy to say but Morgan was always going to be a risk given his injury history and he was a skinny flanker.
I agree Much is more of a "Winger" but he plays like a good midfielder other than being an inside machine. He does run to good spots and has good midfield craft. It would be good to have a star inside player but we do actually go okay in clearance and stoppage. It is the craft in the next phases of play where we fall down.
Begley is another example of drafting a flanker who maybe can play midfield.
So really the issue is in the actual picks and the football departments belief they can turn these blokes into midfielders.

 

[fishardansin]

I love how Dois calling for patience has the exact opposite effect.

 

[DapperJong]

I love how Dois calling for patience has the exact opposite effect.

"Now, honey, don't get mad..."

 

[Lore]

I love how Dois calling for patience has the exact opposite effect.

I feel like it'd be more effective if the journos didn't use that particular phrase as the headline... and if we hadn't followed it up with a 72 point loss. Losing by 3 or 4 goals would be slightly more palatable, that might be patient by a couple of weeks. 72 points and a rabble for 3/4 of the game makes us wonder how long we might be expected to be patient for (especially in light of last year).

 

[BrunoV]

I think you may be onto something with Dodoro as we do select a lot of players who we try and turn into midfielders. As far as rebuild goes I think if we went rebuild then we may well have looked more seriously at offer for Hooker and Hurley at the time as well as moving on Myers when he had interest in him. That is why I said building rather than rebuild. We kept key players and have been adding to that rather than getting the broom out. The problem may well be selection of players. McGrath is a great young player and will be for a long time > I was happy with the pick but IMO Tim Tarranto was the best genuine midfielder in that draft.
We did have a crack at getting Setterfield who is a genuine midfielder and the fact that injury and slow development has stifled a couple of them.
Parish was in the best 3 midfielders in the TAC when he was drafted. In hindsight it would have been better to go with Ryan Clarke or Brayden Sier over Morgan which is easy to say but Morgan was always going to be a risk given his injury history and he was a skinny flanker.
I agree Much is more of a "Winger" but he plays like a good midfielder other than being an inside machine. He does run to good spots and has good midfield craft. It would be good to have a star inside player but we do actually go okay in clearance and stoppage. It is the craft in the next phases of play where we fall down.
Begley is another example of drafting a flanker who maybe can play midfield.
So really the issue is in the actual picks and the football departments belief they can turn these blokes into midfielders.

This discussion really interests me because of what I perceive as the complete disconnect between drafting strategy and player development and coaching.

Take the 2016 draft as an example.

I recall some criticism of the decision to recruit McGrath from an opposition supporter - so it was just dismissed.

I think for our list as an individual decision it is a clear error but that it's also silly to look at the decision in isolation.

The criticisms is that we had our best chance ever to get an A grade midfielder of the type that every other team seems to value. Instead we chose a small, but quick defender to develop as a midfielder.

We then had two valuable picks both used on big, aggressive flankers with as much if not more natural ability than anyone else available. Both were touted as future mids.

There is virtually no suggestion 3 years in that either will be a midfielder. Begley may have been injured but I bet in 10 weeks time he'll have spent less than a quarter playing in the middle. Would it have been that impossible to have split his first year development 50/50 between mid and forward? Particularly given his natural endurance? Our forward line in 2017 hardly needed the extra player.

On the subject of Ridley, we already have Gleeson. We've got Ambrose who the coaches love, Francis who we will be basing list management strategy on, we then recruited Zerk-Thatcher who was good enough to earn a two year extension without playing a game in his second year (and with good reason). He's almost identical physically to Ridley.

The inside mid cant kick the ball and it should come as a surprise to no one. The other player is a wingman.

How does our use of Ridley or Begley make any sense in the context of the spread of talent on our list?

If this is the plan, that draft is basically a disaster because it was our best chance to build or rebuild and we wasted it.

 

[JuniorWatch]

And then we throw the farm at a player who's attributes are IMO too similar to that of the players we already have in the middle.
I won't go on about Shiel but i feel like we might've been better served waiting for a bigger, better contested presence in the middle.

 

[ant555]

This discussion really interests me because of what I perceive as the complete disconnect between drafting strategy and player development and coaching.

Take the 2016 draft as an example.

I recall some criticism of the decision to recruit McGrath from an opposition supporter - so it was just dismissed.

I think for our list as an individual decision it is a clear error but that it's also silly to look at the decision in isolation.

The criticisms is that we had our best chance ever to get an A grade midfielder of the type that every other team seems to value. Instead we chose a small, but quick defender to develop as a midfielder.

We then had two valuable picks both used on big, aggressive flankers with as much if not more natural ability than anyone else available. Both were touted as future mids.

There is virtually no suggestion 3 years in that either will be a midfielder. Begley may have been injured but I bet in 10 weeks time he'll have spent less than a quarter playing in the middle. Would it have been that impossible to have split his first year development 50/50 between mid and forward? Particularly given his natural endurance? Our forward line in 2017 hardly needed the extra player.

On the subject of Ridley, we already have Gleeson. We've got Ambrose who the coaches love, Francis who we will be basing list management strategy on, we then recruited Zerk-Thatcher who was good enough to earn a two year extension without playing a game in his second year (and with good reason). He's almost identical physically to Ridley.

The inside mid cant kick the ball and it should come as a surprise to no one. The other player is a wingman.

How does our use of Ridley or Begley make any sense in the context of the spread of talent on our list?

If this is the plan, that draft is basically a disaster because it was our best chance to build or rebuild and we wasted it.

I do not think you can really argue at all as far as we seem to pick a lot of non genuine midfielders / flankers to turn into midfielders. We have drafted some good players but we still have a hole as far as players who are genuine midfielders (inside or outside). It is almost like the Scott Clayton / Bulldogs era. Some have been best available at that pick but there have been others where IMO we have jumped the wrong way.

In the long run McGrath will be very good. He has the smarts and pace in traffic and he reads the play well but as you said he was a attacking half back who worked both ways who could also play in the middle. He is more you stoppage specialist who is good in traffic and has good vision and ball use. He is not you centre bounce specialist.

The thing I find strange is we have been in the market as far as trading for midfielders goes. Martin was out of our price range. We where asking about Sloan. We made an off to Mitch Wallace. Devon Smith played forward for GWS but he was a good TAC midfielder albeit more of a stoppage winner than inside ball extractor. We spoke to Kellys manager but we where not really in the hunt at that price. We did pick up Cooney but he was finished as was Craig Bird as an inside mid. Yet when it comes to the draft we have been all over the place.

The 2014 draft is actually looking a bit skinny now but there where some midfield picks after Langford and Laverde. Toby McLean was good last year. Jack Steele has been patchy. Touk Miller has progressed. Caleb Daniel. Not stars but all better midfielders at this stage.

 

[ant555]

And then we throw the farm at a player who's attributes are IMO too similar to that of the players we already have in the middle.
I won't go on about Shiel but i feel like we might've been better served waiting for a bigger, better contested presence in the middle.

Shiel is a Jet. We needed his type. Smooth classy ball user. He is a much better player than anyone we had.Not sure what waiting would have done. Sure we could have drafted someone last year but that still wold have been a wait. There are a lack of Free Agents this year.
Trouble is we also need an upgrade on David Myers. Zack Merritt seems to be falling of a cliff. Parish and McGrath still need more games.

 

[yodellinhank]

I love how Dois calling for patience has the exact opposite effect.

Must've thought the supporter base was made up of cruisey knackers.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

The club message is always about it's fans and members how about the players start doing their part.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

"Now, honey, don't get mad..."

Or “Relax”

 

[citizen-erased]

did you watch the video? it will be our fault if they flop against the saints. We just didn’t wave our flags with enough vigour.

i dont even have a flag.
you can all PM me your disappointment and abuse.

Apologies.

 

[BrunoV]

I do not think you can really argue at all as far as we seem to pick a lot of non genuine midfielders / flankers to turn into midfielders. We have drafted some good players but we still have a hole as far as players who are genuine midfielders (inside or outside). It is almost like the Scott Clayton / Bulldogs era. Some have been best available at that pick but there have been others where IMO we have jumped the wrong way.

In the long run McGrath will be very good. He has the smarts and pace in traffic and he reads the play well but as you said he was a attacking half back who worked both ways who could also play in the middle. He is more you stoppage specialist who is good in traffic and has good vision and ball use. He is not you centre bounce specialist.

The thing I find strange is we have been in the market as far as trading for midfielders goes. Martin was out of our price range. We where asking about Sloan. We made an off to Mitch Wallace. Devon Smith played forward for GWS but he was a good TAC midfielder albeit more of a stoppage winner than inside ball extractor. We spoke to Kellys manager but we where not really in the hunt at that price. We did pick up Cooney but he was finished as was Craig Bird as an inside mid. Yet when it comes to the draft we have been all over the place.

The 2014 draft is actually looking a bit skinny now but there where some midfield picks after Langford and Laverde. Toby McLean was good last year. Jack Steele has been patchy. Touk Miller has progressed. Caleb Daniel. Not stars but all better midfielders at this stage.

But we draft non-mids with the intention to play them as mids. It's clearly a reflection of physical attributes.

Is it that non-mids cant be mids?

It doesnt feel like that is the case.