Training 2019/20 Preseason Training

[Dylan82]

Just in regard to 2018, as it is continuously being dug up as an example of preseason results being meaningless:

Port Adelaide had recently topped up during the offseason, were among the premiership favourites at the time and were relishing the opportunity to start their year by reversing Shuey's kick after the siren just five months earlier. They sent their best available team and wanted to win by a big margin. With Naitanui and Kennedy injured and Priddis and Mitchell retired, the club was generally expected to be crushed.
Yet the reinvented midfield won the key battles. Yeo hit the stoppages and Jetta movd back; Gaff and Sheed playing outside and inside; Ryan showing how much could be gained from the addition of an instinctive forward; a team that appeared much faster both with and without the ball.
The match was brutally contested (the intensity was higher than what occurs in most regular season matches), and played at a high rate - that the team was able to maintain that level over four quarters is what made a lasting impression on me.
A Jetta run through the centre and bomb from 60m out to win with barely ten seconds remaining was a fitting end to one of the strongest preseason performances from the club that I can recall.

Then came the infamous result 39-101 result against Fremantle. After a competitive first quarter the team hit the wall and ran out of legs, allowing their opponents multiple simple goals on the switch and out the back. There persisted rumors of overtraining and fatigue affecting the squad during the week leading up to the match, the same also saying the coaching panel had seen enough of what they wanted from the previous match against Port and were using the Fremantle game purely as a conditioning exercise. Shuey, Yeo and Gaff for example played the entire match in cotton wool, trying to avoid attending stoppage contests.
To consider the score result of this match as indicative of the squad's preseason form is misleading.


Comparatively, this year the club have played against two very average teams from last season (each missing almost half of their best available sides), whilst fielding far more complete teams in terms of availability and strength.

That is why the two results do give me concern. Against preseason intensity levels, the effectiveness of disposal and overall ball movement has been terrible. The lack of novelty, structural rigidity and lingering feeling of the same issues from last year presenting negatively already are not a good sign for this time of year. At no point during either match has the team clicked and provided a "Wow" moment for example.

I have significant fears this season could very easily slip away if the team is unable to switch on and find another gear that we know it is capable of from Round 1 in two weeks time. This is no ordinary season - the club have been dealt the toughest fixture any team has faced in 20 years - whilst at the same time the majority of its rivals for the premiership have easier than average draws. Even if the club plays well, finishing top four will still be a challenge this year considering the fixture. If the level of performance displayed this preseason continues into the regular season, things will unwind rapidly.

There is almost zero margin for error this year due to the lack of fairness in the fixture. The team cannot afford to find its way through the season - it needs to be winning (and gaining percentage) from the very start.

That is why I am currently far more worried by this year's preseason than I was during say, 2018.

 

[Mattman93]

That is why the two results do give me concern. Against preseason intensity levels, the effectiveness of disposal and overall ball movement has been terrible. The lack of novelty, structural rigidity and lingering feeling of the same issues from last year presenting negatively already are not a good sign for this time of year. At no point during either match has the team clicked and provided a "Wow" moment for example.

I feel the same way, the bolded in particular.

The forward half is of particular concern. None of our smalls (bar Cripps sometimes) get much of the ball, and none are all that classy (bar Ryan sometimes); we are getting to halfway and then it's just stagnant. At the moment they seem to think that if they chip it around enough and switch across the ground 2-3 times something will miraculously open up.

 

[bUCKET__]

And now a full strength Brisbane are struggling to put Carlton away too. At least we'll have company down the bottom of the ladder.

 

[RanaNaved]

Just in regard to 2018, as it is continuously being dug up as an example of preseason results being meaningless:

Port Adelaide had recently topped up during the offseason, were among the premiership favourites at the time and were relishing the opportunity to start their year by reversing Shuey's kick after the siren just five months earlier. They sent their best available team and wanted to win by a big margin. With Naitanui and Kennedy injured and Priddis and Mitchell retired, the club was generally expected to be crushed.
Yet the reinvented midfield won the key battles. Yeo hit the stoppages and Jetta movd back; Gaff and Sheed playing outside and inside; Ryan showing how much could be gained from the addition of an instinctive forward; a team that appeared much faster both with and without the ball.
The match was brutally contested (the intensity was higher than what occurs in most regular season matches), and played at a high rate - that the team was able to maintain that level over four quarters is what made a lasting impression on me.
A Jetta run through the centre and bomb from 60m out to win with barely ten seconds remaining was a fitting end to one of the strongest preseason performances from the club that I can recall.

Then came the infamous result 39-101 result against Fremantle. After a competitive first quarter the team hit the wall and ran out of legs, allowing their opponents multiple simple goals on the switch and out the back. There persisted rumors of overtraining and fatigue affecting the squad during the week leading up to the match, the same also saying the coaching panel had seen enough of what they wanted from the previous match against Port and were using the Fremantle game purely as a conditioning exercise. Shuey, Yeo and Gaff for example played the entire match in cotton wool, trying to avoid attending stoppage contests.
To consider the score result of this match as indicative of the squad's preseason form is misleading.


Comparatively, this year the club have played against two very average teams from last season (each missing almost half of their best available sides), whilst fielding far more complete teams in terms of availability and strength.

That is why the two results do give me concern. Against preseason intensity levels, the effectiveness of disposal and overall ball movement has been terrible. The lack of novelty, structural rigidity and lingering feeling of the same issues from last year presenting negatively already are not a good sign for this time of year. At no point during either match has the team clicked and provided a "Wow" moment for example.

I have significant fears this season could very easily slip away if the team is unable to switch on and find another gear that we know it is capable of from Round 1 in two weeks time. This is no ordinary season - the club have been dealt the toughest fixture any team has faced in 20 years - whilst at the same time the majority of its rivals for the premiership have easier than average draws. Even if the club plays well, finishing top four will still be a challenge this year considering the fixture. If the level of performance displayed this preseason continues into the regular season, things will unwind rapidly.

There is almost zero margin for error this year due to the lack of fairness in the fixture. The team cannot afford to find its way through the season - it needs to be winning (and gaining percentage) from the very start.

That is why I am currently far more worried by this year's preseason than I was during say, 2018.

Think you're exaggerating re the narrative about the Port game.

I don't think they were looking at making a statement in a practice game and you're overstating the quality and intensity aspect imo.

You're also reaching with your reasons on why we lost so badly to Freo imo.

Don't panic yet, if they turn out the same effort levels in rd1 I will be surprised..........and like you, a little worried.

 

[WCErevival]

Its a long season. There is no point peaking early. The last 2 times we made the GF we started slow.

 

[Cuzz09]

Its March... we say "Its only March"
In April, May, June, July, August... we say "Its only April, May, June, July, August"


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[bUCKET__]

Its March... we say "Its only March"
In April, May, June, July, August... we say "Its only April, May, June, July, August"


On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

And there is some truth to it.

It's easy to forget that a lot of people were writing off Richmond in even June/July last year.

Then they had a brilliant run home with consecutive MCG games, got players fit and on the park, and built into September.

People weren't convinced by us in 2018, right up until quarter time in a prelim final...

 

[RookiePick]

We aren't bad up forward at all. We do hamstring our forwards for large portions of games by moving into attack at glacial pace.

I was really hoping with Kelly, Yeo and Boots we might see more shots at goal from the midfield to help spread the defence instead of them simply flooding back and stifling our forwards.

 

[Max zero]

"You're protecting the corridor on the open side quite a lot, which teams are trying to do and I like that responsibility," Brander said.

"The inside mids and other wingers are more inside the contest, and then my position is to hold the corridor and protect the open side.

"It's not a position where you're going to get heaps of the footy or dominate the game, but it's an interesting role."

Wow, it’s almost as if the “Masten doesn’t get enough touches” argument was based on an inaccurate understanding of the Eagles gameplan. I’m shocked to be sitting here.

Indeed where else would you play a slow, short midfielder with no contested game?

 

[Rowan18]

Just in regard to 2018, as it is continuously being dug up as an example of preseason results being meaningless:

Port Adelaide had recently topped up during the offseason, were among the premiership favourites at the time and were relishing the opportunity to start their year by reversing Shuey's kick after the siren just five months earlier. They sent their best available team and wanted to win by a big margin. With Naitanui and Kennedy injured and Priddis and Mitchell retired, the club was generally expected to be crushed.
Yet the reinvented midfield won the key battles. Yeo hit the stoppages and Jetta movd back; Gaff and Sheed playing outside and inside; Ryan showing how much could be gained from the addition of an instinctive forward; a team that appeared much faster both with and without the ball.
The match was brutally contested (the intensity was higher than what occurs in most regular season matches), and played at a high rate - that the team was able to maintain that level over four quarters is what made a lasting impression on me.
A Jetta run through the centre and bomb from 60m out to win with barely ten seconds remaining was a fitting end to one of the strongest preseason performances from the club that I can recall.

Then came the infamous result 39-101 result against Fremantle. After a competitive first quarter the team hit the wall and ran out of legs, allowing their opponents multiple simple goals on the switch and out the back. There persisted rumors of overtraining and fatigue affecting the squad during the week leading up to the match, the same also saying the coaching panel had seen enough of what they wanted from the previous match against Port and were using the Fremantle game purely as a conditioning exercise. Shuey, Yeo and Gaff for example played the entire match in cotton wool, trying to avoid attending stoppage contests.
To consider the score result of this match as indicative of the squad's preseason form is misleading.


Comparatively, this year the club have played against two very average teams from last season (each missing almost half of their best available sides), whilst fielding far more complete teams in terms of availability and strength.

That is why the two results do give me concern. Against preseason intensity levels, the effectiveness of disposal and overall ball movement has been terrible. The lack of novelty, structural rigidity and lingering feeling of the same issues from last year presenting negatively already are not a good sign for this time of year. At no point during either match has the team clicked and provided a "Wow" moment for example.

I have significant fears this season could very easily slip away if the team is unable to switch on and find another gear that we know it is capable of from Round 1 in two weeks time. This is no ordinary season - the club have been dealt the toughest fixture any team has faced in 20 years - whilst at the same time the majority of its rivals for the premiership have easier than average draws. Even if the club plays well, finishing top four will still be a challenge this year considering the fixture. If the level of performance displayed this preseason continues into the regular season, things will unwind rapidly.

There is almost zero margin for error this year due to the lack of fairness in the fixture. The team cannot afford to find its way through the season - it needs to be winning (and gaining percentage) from the very start.

That is why I am currently far more worried by this year's preseason than I was during say, 2018.

Let's not forget that preseason game 1 was played in a storm with consistent rain and changing wind, with us missing enough key players from each line to completely disrupt the structure.

I didn't get to watch yesterday in full so cant comment there. Either way, Simmo seems completely unworried, which makes me feel that they had different objectives.

Your analysis of the draw is a very interesting point. Do you more detail showing what makes it so hard?

 

[Dylan82]

Let's not forget that preseason game 1 was played in a storm with consistent rain and changing wind, with us missing enough key players from each line to completely disrupt the structure.

I didn't get to watch yesterday in full so cant comment there. Either way, Simmo seems completely unworried, which makes me feel that they had different objectives.

Your analysis of the draw is a very interesting point. Do you more detail showing what makes it so hard?

Yeah, it'll come this week as the final part of the mega-preview thread.

 

[Max zero]

The "Masten" role is a tactical liability - the club shouldn't be trying to find a new way of making it fit when it is no longer suitable.


I have a lot of faith in Brander's ability, but this whole "adaptation to the wing" stuff is just ringing alarm bells for me.


So what happens once he has successfully adapted into becoming a low-disposal, low-impact, non-stoppage midfielder?


Firstly, from a team perspective:

• It will do nothing to prevent opposition rebound counterattack possession chains through the corridor and gaining easy attacking opportunities.
• It will prevent the opportunity of the team having high-possession ball carriers and possible overlap on both sides of the ground, which would stretch opposition defences and open up more chances to attack through the corridor.
• It removes the opportunity for an additional stoppage rotation when the club was ranked last in the competition for contested possessions in 2019.

The club's chances of success this year are negatively impacted by Brander taking to the field in this role.


Finally, from an individual point of view:

• One of the most talented KPP from the draft is at risk of being turned into another M.Allen, Tunbridge, Lamb, Colledge experiment that will bear no fruit.
• Giving a young player that has a hesitant approach to contests even less involvement around them is not going to address those hesitancy issues.
• He's changed his conditioning focus from getting bigger to covering ground, which will hamper his ability to be able to compete as a KPP when the opportunity does arise in the senior team.

This whole scenario makes little sense to me and actually raises some grave concerns for the upcoming season ahead, particularly since seeing absolutely nothing new in a tactical sense was tried during last week's match against Essendon.

I'd be far less concerned if he was say, being trialled as a specialist rebounding player in the mould of Sicily to take over the current Duggan/Nelson role - heck, I'd even be less concerned if he was just stacking on the weight and playing Lockett-style from the goalsquare for the Beagles.

I just cannot see any immediate, or long-term benefit coming from the current situation concerning Brander.

It's like selling silverware in order to buy back lead.

Can't agree with the post enough.

It's bad enough that we have a gameplan that sacrifices one of the 18 players we can have on the ground. It's quite another to use one of our most promising young players to do it. Since all the role seems to need is stamina or positioning why can't we have someone like Hutchings do it?

What exactly is Brander supposed to learn playing a role that isn't often involved in play and rarely touches the ball? How is he meant to improve, impress or gain confidence?

BOND 007 Does WC have any idea what they are doing with Brander?

 

[WCErevival]

Can't agree with the post enough.

It's bad enough that we have a gameplan that sacrifices one of the 18 players we can have on the ground. It's quite another to use one of our most promising young players to do it. Since all the role seems to need is stamina or positioning why can't we have someone like Hutchings do it?

Why play someone less skilled?

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Indeed where else would you play a slow, short midfielder with no contested game?

Probably the WAFL, not picking him in 80% of our AFL games this decade, but what do I know, I’m not two seperate premiership coaches.

 

[Ishmael_]

I'm not too fussed about all this pre-season miasma. Sure, I think there are valid concerns but a lot of it boils down to us fanatics being starved of footy for months and expecting big things on return, even if it is just pre-season. Add in aging guns and a needlessly hard fixture and we're all feeling a little anxious.

Of all the things that I'm concerned about, The Willie Rioli Clusterfcuk™ is what most gets me. It's both an existential bummer and an immediate threat to our success.

Rioli's link play, pressure, scoring ability, football IQ and versatility impacts us on every line. I was re-watching the GF final quarter and there's Willie in the centre after the all-important Sheed goal. There is zero chance that any one of Petruccelle, Cameron, Treacy or Jones are playing there in a GF with a couple of minutes left.

Which is to say, there's no replacing Rioli - he's just not your average small forward and I don't know how we cover that. Best to manage our expectations of his replacement.

One thing I did like from the practice match is Nic Nat in the forward line. He kicked 24.14 in 2012 and 17.13 in 2015. I know he's being managed but maybe just maybe he could rest there a bit and we could play one less tall. He scares the crap out of defenders, he's got a great ground game, offers pressure and gets players into the game.

 

[ziad]

I'm not too fussed about all this pre-season miasma. Sure, I think there are valid concerns but a lot of it boils down to us fanatics being starved of footy for months and expecting big things on return, even if it is just pre-season. Add in aging guns and a needlessly hard fixture and we're all feeling a little anxious.

Of all the things that I'm concerned about, The Willie Rioli Clusterfcuk™ is what most gets me. It's both an existential bummer and an immediate threat to our success.

Rioli's link play, pressure, scoring ability, football IQ and versatility impacts us on every line. I was re-watching the GF final quarter and there's Willie in the centre after the all-important Sheed goal. There is zero chance that any one of Petruccelle, Cameron, Treacy or Jones are playing there in a GF with a couple of minutes left.

Which is to say, there's no replacing Rioli - he's just not your average small forward and I don't know how we cover that. Best to manage our expectations of his replacement.

One thing I did like from the practice match is Nic Nat in the forward line. He kicked 24.14 in 2012 and 17.13 in 2015. I know he's being managed but maybe just maybe he could rest there a bit and we could play one less tall. He scares the crap out of defenders, he's got a great ground game, offers pressure and gets players into the game.

Yep the Willi dilemma. I like the idea of Williams and Nic spending a little time deap forward. That will end the double and tripple teaming of JK with JD up field to link up. Brander at wing/half forward is also an interesting prospect. Spreads the defence !

 

[FKASC]

is it worth considering trialling Petruccelle as a running half back in the WAFL? I can’t see him ever being a natural enough forward to be a regular there, he just doesn’t have the craftiness that you would otherwise get from a natural crumber.

Someone on reddit the other day said he’s a one trick pony and wouldn’t get a game for most other teams, and it is tending to look that way. Unless he has the opportunity to burn someone off, he doesn’t add much.

If he could become a Saad type half back, it would give us an extra means of getting out of defence rather than relying on the big switch out to the fat side.

 

[mad_eagle]

I’m not worried about the results, I always feel like there are instructions to keep things “simple” and not give too much away from the tinkering that may have been added to the game plan over the preseason.

What I do worry about is if JK & JD both go down at some point during the season & our plan is to chuck Barrass forward as a target...yuck!!

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

I’m not worried about the results, I always feel like there are instructions to keep things “simple” and not give too much away from the tinkering that may have been added to the game plan over the preseason.

What I do worry about is if JK & JD both go down at some point during the season & our plan is to chuck Barrass forward as a target...yuck!!

Oscar Allen and B Williams being out necessitated that move, both of which would be playing forward ahead of Barry’s. Not many teams would have the luxury of having the amount of KPFs we do

You’d hope all of Allen, Williams and one of JD/JK being out wouldn’t happen during season proper

 

[bombard]

is it worth considering trialling Petruccelle as a running half back in the WAFL? I can’t see him ever being a natural enough forward to be a regular there, he just doesn’t have the craftiness that you would otherwise get from a natural crumber.

Someone on reddit the other day said he’s a one trick pony and wouldn’t get a game for most other teams, and it is tending to look that way. Unless he has the opportunity to burn someone off, he doesn’t add much.

If he could become a Saad type half back, it would give us an extra means of getting out of defence rather than relying on the big switch out to the fat side.

Definitely open to it. I'm not sure he's developing as we'd like in that current slot.

 

[FKASC]

Definitely open to it. I'm not sure he's developing as we'd like in that current slot.

Five goals against Port tho

 

[Capriati]

is it worth considering trialling Petruccelle as a running half back in the WAFL? I can’t see him ever being a natural enough forward to be a regular there, he just doesn’t have the craftiness that you would otherwise get from a natural crumber.

Someone on reddit the other day said he’s a one trick pony and wouldn’t get a game for most other teams, and it is tending to look that way. Unless he has the opportunity to burn someone off, he doesn’t add much.

If he could become a Saad type half back, it would give us an extra means of getting out of defence rather than relying on the big switch out to the fat side.

I don’t like this idea at all. You need players in the back half whose disposal is rock solid. Most teams these days score from turnovers in Forward 50. I could easily see petch coming out of D50 and biting off more than he could chew, either being caught HTB or squibbing a kick down the corridor and seeing the ball go back over his head for a goal.

I’m not a huge Pettrucelle fan, but I thought he was one of our big improvers over the off season based on the pre season games. There were some nice moments between him and TK.

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[FKASC]

I don’t like this idea at all. You need players in the back half whose disposal is rock solid. Most teams these days score from turnovers in Forward 50. I could easily see petch coming out of D50 and biting off more than he could chew, either being caught HTB or squibbing a kick down the corridor and seeing the ball go back over his head for a goal.

I’m not a huge Pettrucelle fan, but I thought he was one of our big improvers over the off season based on the pre season games. There were some nice moments between him and TK.

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I agree you want good users there, but none of Duggan, Cole or Nelson (or even Sheppard) are especially great disposers either. At least Petch has something else to offer that the others don’t.

 

[Capriati]

I agree you want good users there, but none of Duggan, Cole or Nelson (or even Sheppard) are especially great disposers either. At least Petch has something else to offer that the others don’t.

I thought Duggan has a pretty good kick.

Nelson

To me, your suggestion would see our defence become very porous.

We should not be taking cues from Essendon. Their ultra offense on rebound leaves their defence vulnerable on turnover. Their game plan is not a flag winning game plan.

Top teams move the ball slowly and safely out of defensive 50. Our issue at the moment is a bit of stagnation. We have great players down back already. IMO it requires tinkering and refreshing, not an overhaul.

If we have Petch in the team i think using him at HHF and having him push up to the midfield is the best position for him. He needs to develop his decision making and his disposal. But I thought his disposal was a lot better in the pre season games.

Petrucelle will be getting a lot of games in early season just by virtue of missing many of our small forward stocks.

come mid season bye I want to see Cameron back in the team and hopefully jones as


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[Spots]

Can't agree with the post enough.

It's bad enough that we have a gameplan that sacrifices one of the 18 players we can have on the ground. It's quite another to use one of our most promising young players to do it. Since all the role seems to need is stamina or positioning why can't we have someone like Hutchings do it?

What exactly is Brander supposed to learn playing a role that isn't often involved in play and rarely touches the ball? How is he meant to improve, impress or gain confidence?

BOND 007 Does WC have any idea what they are doing with Brander?

First time poster here... the Eagles want to get games into Brander to continue his development so we have a ready made replacement when some of the older guys retire... Since those guys are still first choice in the key positions we have to play Brander out of position for a while... I get that we don't want to turn into solely a winger who plays a role, but what do you do instead... continue playing him in the WAFL?

I hope that as we see injuries we will see Brander fill the key positions with more regularity during the year, but for now its about getting him in the team.