Opinion Top 50 my life

[PhatBoy]

We're talking about Lethal and Dustin here, no need to insert Dangerfield into the conversation, remember only one player can be compared to Lethal without Lethal feeling insulted, and Lethal has told all of us who that player is, and it's not Dangerfield, so please, let's not insult Lethal by inserting Patrick into the conversation. I can accept that most will say that Lethal was better than Dustin, and looking at Lethal's record I wouldn't even bother arguing, but what everyone has to accept is that Dustin was the Lethal of these times, not Dangerfield.

It has to be said that many in the football industry didn't interpret what Lethal said the way you have (that he was referring to accolades), that's why those that disagreed with what Lethal said brought up Lethal's stats from the 1977 seaon, which they wouldn't of did if Lethal was referring to accolades. I didn't need Lethal to tell me that Dustin was the most decorated player in a single season that the game has ever seen, did you?

So Lloyd said something you agree with, Lethal has also said something about Dustin, do you agree with Lethal?

Yes no need to literally insert pieces from the comment he made.

Yes it’s amazing how un-open for interpretation it is when a key forward says ‘he played on me’ compared to ‘no one has had a season like that.’


If it had nothing to do with how decorated he was, why would Matthews start bringing up vote tallies etc etc?

It can’t be that difficult to separate the concepts of achievement vs quality.


Let me guess.

If Player A produces a game for his team that reaps 9 goals, 2 goal assists and a couple of tackles, and gets 2 Brownlow votes, because someone else in the game had 10 goals, 2 goal assists and a couple of tackles, you would say that Player A has been inferior to Player B, who in a different game has 4 goals, the most on the field, and picks up 3 Brownlow votes

 

[South of the Yarra]

You just keep living in the 80s mate. Our rivalry must be sky high for you hahahah


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Richmond are irrelevant to me. You keep wanting an excuse made as to why Martin is not in my top 20. You are looking for anything. I know it hurts Tigers fans (what’s left of them ) but it is Carlton who I despise. Two Richmond players made my top 20, such bias. Martin is simply not good enough to make it. No matter how much you try to insult me and force your belief onto me I will not alter my mind about a player who is inconsistent and has such a limited skill set compared to the greats.

 

[Uriel Tiger]

If it had nothing to do with how decorated he was, why would Matthews start bringing up vote tallies etc etc?

Because he's talking about everything to do with Dustin's amazing 2017 season. My question was why did some in the football industry that disagreed with what Lethal said bring up Lethal's stats from 1977 if Lethal was only talking about accolades?

 

[PhatBoy]

Because he's talking about everything to do with Dustin's amazing 2017 season. My question was why did some in the football industry that disagreed with what Lethal said bring up Lethal's stats from 1977 if Lethal was only talking about accolades?

You would have to ask them that. I looked at his comments about Martin’s 2017 and he talked about how dominant Dangerfield had been a season earlier and cited his vote tallies etc etc and then said Martin had clearly gone past it.

Now for what it’s worth I agree with that. He played at a very, very high level and I don’t mind saying he played at a higher level than Dangerfield had the year before.

But vote tallies, accolades, honours and trophies etc do not account for any variables, don’t account for opposition, output of other players, general standard etc etc so even though it IS a measurable metric: it’s numbers, of course it’s measurable and offers indications of dominance and the gap to the next best players etc etc, it isn’t a definitive indicator of quality.

 

[Falcon3518]

You would have to ask them that. I looked at his comments about Martin’s 2017 and he talked about how dominant Dangerfield had been a season earlier and cited his vote tallies etc etc and then said Martin had clearly gone past it.

Now for what it’s worth I agree with that. He played at a very, very high level and I don’t mind saying he played at a higher level than Dangerfield had the year before.

But vote tallies, accolades, honours and trophies etc do not account for any variables, don’t account for opposition, output of other players, general standard etc etc so even though it IS a measurable metric: it’s numbers, of course it’s measurable and offers indications of dominance and the gap to the next best players etc etc, it isn’t a definitive indicator of quality.

Do you think BOGs best reflects quality? If not, what does.

Because Dusty won every award that season bar the Coleman which are all based off BOG, BOG IS dominance. To win the Brownlow in H&A and then win the Garry ayes medal which is essentially a Brownlow in finals is perfect. You literally can’t get any more dominant. Don’t quote me on it but I think Dusty holds the record for most BOGs in a H&A season at 11. Which is half of the H&A season. Pretty sure this hasn’t been done before.


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[PhatBoy]

Do you think BOGs best reflects quality? If not, what does.

Because Dusty won every award that season bar the Coleman which are all based off BOG, BOG IS dominance. To win the Brownlow in H&A and then win the Garry ayes medal which is essentially a Brownlow in finals is perfect. You literally can’t get any more dominant. Don’t quote me on it but I think Dusty holds the record for most BOGs in a H&A season at 11. Which is half of the H&A season. Pretty sure this hasn’t been done before.


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Again, who’s had a better game - someone who was best on ground with 20 touches and 2 goals or someone in another game who’s been second best on ground with 30, 3, and 10 tackles?

Of course Martin was dominant that season. I’m yet to meet anyone who thinks he wasn’t.

 

[Falcon3518]

Yes and I believe a lot of what he said he was being very genuine, and correct.

No one in Australian sport beyond the boxing fraternity, past or present, is seriously going to say ‘I’m insulted to be compared to so and so’ with deadpanning and looking for a giggle. Especially on The Footy Show. Brett Kenny actually said something similar on The Matty Johns Show the other night.

It has nothing to do with whether it suits me. I’ve watched enough sports shows and done enough interviews to know when someone is being cheeky and when someone is being 100 per cent serious. I believe Matthews truly does think he’s from the highest tier of skilled players he’s seen. I don’t doubt that.

But do you seriously think if someone said ‘Hey Barney this bloke reckons Ted Whitten was as good as you’ in a public interview, he’s going to consider his answer for a few moments and say ‘that’s insulting’ and move on to the next question.

In his head he probably would tbh. Whitten isn’t anywhere near him.


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[PhatBoy]

In his head he probably would tbh. Whitten isn’t anywhere near him.


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It’s a hypothetical. He’s not going to say it whether he thinks it or not

 

[Forward Press]

Do you think BOGs best reflects quality? If not, what does.

Because Dusty won every award that season bar the Coleman which are all based off BOG, BOG IS dominance. To win the Brownlow in H&A and then win the Garry ayes medal which is essentially a Brownlow in finals is perfect. You literally can’t get any more dominant. Don’t quote me on it but I think Dusty holds the record for most BOGs in a H&A season at 11. Which is half of the H&A season. Pretty sure this hasn’t been done before.


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Ollie Wines polled in 16 games - that is, 2 more games than Dustin Martin did - that is, umpires rated him amongst the best three on the ground on more occasions than Dustin Martin in their Brownlow seasons. Patrick Dangerfield had 15 in his Brownlow season.

Using your logic, this indicates to me Dusty is more inconsistent and therefore simply isn't as consistently good as Wines and Dangerfield.

Lachie Neale and Nathan Fyfe both polled more votes per games in their Brownlow seasons - 1.82 and 1.65/1.72 per game respectively compared to 1.64 for Dustin Martin.

Using your logic, this indicates to me Dusty only achieved those record votes and BOGs because he played more games, who knows how Neale and Fyfe could have done if they played all 22.

 

[Falcon3518]

Ollie Wines polled in 16 games - that is, 2 more games than Dustin Martin did - that is, umpires rated him amongst the best three on the ground on more occasions than Dustin Martin in their Brownlow seasons. Patrick Dangerfield had 15 in his Brownlow season.

Lachie Neale and Nathan Fyfe both polled more votes per games in their Brownlow seasons - 1.85 and 1.65/1.72 per game respectively compared to 1.64 for Dustin Martin.

Yeah and finals?


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[PhatBoy]

Ollie Wines polled in 16 games - that is, 2 more games than Dustin Martin did - that is, umpires rated him amongst the best three on the ground on more occasions than Dustin Martin in their Brownlow seasons. Patrick Dangerfield had 15 in his Brownlow season.

Using your logic, this indicates to me Dusty is more inconsistent and therefore simply isn't as consistently good as Wines and Dangerfield.

Lachie Neale and Nathan Fyfe both polled more votes per games in their Brownlow seasons - 1.85 and 1.65/1.72 per game respectively compared to 1.64 for Dustin Martin.

Using your logic, this indicates to me Dusty only achieved those record votes and BOGs because he played more games, who knows how Neale and Fyfe could have done if they played all 22.

I’m literally watching the 2011 GF at the moment on Kayo as I have nothing better to do than yearn for days when we were a hardened outstanding finals team.

There are at minimum - Bartel, Selwood, Hawkins and Johnson - 4 cats who played better that day than Jason Johannison did 5 years later.

Only 1 of them got a medal for it.

 

[Uriel Tiger]

You would have to ask them that. I looked at his comments about Martin’s 2017 and he talked about how dominant Dangerfield had been a season earlier and cited his vote tallies etc etc and then said Martin had clearly gone past it.

Now for what it’s worth I agree with that. He played at a very, very high level and I don’t mind saying he played at a higher level than Dangerfield had the year before.

You can't disagree with it if you think he was only talking about vote tallies etc etc, that's obvious lol!

What Lethal meant was that no one had ever played at a higher level than Dustin in 2017 in the history of the game, that's why some in the football industry that disagreed with what Lethal said brought up Lethal's own high level in the 1977 season, where for all Lethal's exploits that season Hawthorn never won the flag.

You know some of the players on these lists you see loved feasting on the lowly teams, Dustin never went out of his way to feast on lowly teams. So don't look at stats when comparing Dustin to some of the players you see on these lists (a mistake made by most here), because with Dustin it's not about stats, it's about impact.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Do you think BOGs best reflects quality? If not, what does.

Because Dusty won every award that season bar the Coleman which are all based off BOG, BOG IS dominance. To win the Brownlow in H&A and then win the Garry ayes medal which is essentially a Brownlow in finals is perfect. You literally can’t get any more dominant. Don’t quote me on it but I think Dusty holds the record for most BOGs in a H&A season at 11. Which is half of the H&A season. Pretty sure this hasn’t been done before.


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I think he also won "My Kitchen Rules", and "The Masked Singer" that year. Also picked up votes at my cricket club (even though he didn't play - we have fairly cruisey voting criteria). Brilliant performer.

 

[beerbandit]

Ah ok so what you are saying is I can’t participate in any discussions because of my age. You’re cooked mate.


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Not at all buddy but you are the one disagreeing with everything everyone has said about watching these players live in the 70’s and 80’s.

I know Richmond have won 3 flags in the last 5 years and all you can think about is Dusty, but the fact is that the 1970, 1980s produced some of the greatest players to play the game.

FWIW I would have Dusty in the top 20 players I’ve seen. Of the current crop of players he is 2nd only behind Buddy.

Pendles, Danger, Selwood, Fyfe next rung down

 

[PhatBoy]

You can't disagree with it if you think he was only talking about vote tallies etc etc, that's obvious lol!

What Lethal meant was that no one had ever played at a higher level than Dustin in 2017 in the history of the game, that's why some in the football industry that disagreed with what Lethal said brought up Lethal's own high level in the 1977 season, where for all Lethal's exploits that season Hawthorn never won the flag.

You know some of the players on these lists you see loved feasting on the lowly teams, Dustin never went out of his way to feast on lowly teams. So don't look at stats when comparing Dustin to some of the players you see on these lists (a mistake made by most here), because with Dustin it's not about stats, it's about impact.

Who goes out of their way to feast on lowly teams but not better ones, out of interest

 

[TheUnicorn]

Day off

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Its impossible to fit them all in - but if i was picking a top 20 from the 1960s onwards - id have both Bernie Quinlan - a sensational player and Barry Davis both in - both beautiful and long kicks

Couple of other comments - id have Kevin Bartlett in the top 6-7 easy - absolute champion - then in his 30s moved to a hff - and in 1980 finals kicked 6 goals against Carlton 8 goals against Geel - and 7 goals against Collingwood - and FWIW - id have Bartlett over Martin by the length of the Randwick straight

And if you were picking a side to win premierships - id pick Carey - number 1 - every day of the week

 

[Uriel Tiger]

Who goes out of their way to feast on lowly teams but not better ones, out of interest

What I mean is Dustin can get 3 goals combined against Nth. Melbourne and Adelaide in 2020 but 4 against Geelong in a Grand Final, that's also what I mean when I say don't worry about stats with Dustin, when it has to get done in big games he'll make his mark. It's all about impact in the biggest of games with Dustin.

 

[PhatBoy]

What I mean is Dustin can get 3 goals combined against Nth. Melbourne and Adelaide in 2020 but 4 against Geelong in a Grand Final, that's also what I mean when I say don't worry about stats with Dustin, when it has to get done in big games he'll make his mark. It's all about impact in the biggest of games with Dustin.

So this is my point right - Steve Johnson for example plays two grand finals where he has 4 goals, one of them with a fair bit of ball the other with 14 touches.
Has a prelim where he has 20 and 3 - against Collingwood in that 2007 nail biter.
Has 32 and 3 in the 2013 prelim nail biter we lost to Hawthorn.

That’s 4 huge games for a medium forward mid, on the biggest stages possible.

Yet when we assess Steve Johnson - when anyone does - they look at ‘ok he had a really long career where he kicked over 500 goals, averages 20 touches a game over 16 seasons. He was an exceptional player.’

Why aren’t people going ‘well because of 4 of his 293 games which were outstanding, he should be elevated to God tier’?

That’s not a Geelong gripe I’m just using him as an obvious example because I watched most of his career.

 

[Lingsface]

Dusty not even in the top 20 after you witnessed him single-handedly take a premiership from your cabinet, and in the meantime tear you a new arsehole. Give yourself an uppercut.

I think that would be quite a stupid thing to do, but I do thankyou for your attempt and constructive feedback.

 

[Lingsface]

Good list mate. I'll have a crack. I started watching late 70s.

1. S Michael
2. W Carey
3. L Matthews
4. C Judd
5. G Ablett Snr
6. G Ablett Jnr
7. T Lockett
8. P Daicos
9. D Cox
10. P Matera
11. D Jarman
12. M Pavlich
13. N Buckley
14. G Williams
15. M Voss
16. M Rioli
17. J Hird
18. S Pendlebury
19. G Moss
20. G McKenna
21. B Quinlan
22. J Ackermanis
23. R Harvey
24. S West
25. C Bradley
26. A Lynch
27. K Hunter
28. P Vander Haar
29. S Black
30. N Fyfe
31. B Doull
32. M Mitchell
33. P Roos
34. C Lewis
35. J Krackour
36. S Mitchell
37. D Kemp
38. D Brereton
39. S Kernahan
40. B Picken
41. A McLeod
42. P Dangerfield
43. P Krackour
44. P Kelly
45. L Baker
46. G Melrose
47. J Dunstall
48. G Wanganeen
49. D Kickett
50. P Featherby

S Michael that’s great to see him get a mention have heard from countless people saying he is close to the best.

P Featherby held the possesions record for a number of years and was also my under 12s football coach haha.

 

[WilloTree]

S Michael that’s great to see him get a mention have heard from countless people saying he is close to the best.

P Featherby held the possesions record for a number of years and was also my under 12s football coach haha.

Feathers is that guy everyone likes. Would have been an awesome u12s coach.

 

[WilloTree]

I don’t have a dog in this fight so it doesn’t worry me but in theory wouldn’t the basic difference between the three major leagues be the depth? Ie. I’d have thought that purely through weight of numbers Victoria would have more league level players so the worst VFL players would be better than the worst SANFL and WAFL players but the top say 25 per cent across all leagues would be of a very similar standard

There were 8 teams in the WAFL, 10 in the SANFL and 12 in the VFL. It evened out.

 

[nut]

Dusty wasn’t even the best player that year

You mean Dangerflop?

 

[juss]

On a side note, I always wonder what people mean when they say "of my life". Like if you were born in 1980 you weren't watching footy with a critical mind at 4 years old, yet they'll include someone who peaked in 1982. Like they were a toddler at a game flicking through the record and analysing the stats.

Same thing when they say I've seen X flags in my life, and 2 of them were when they were 3 months and 15 months old....