- May 6, 2007
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not the thread for it champ
Who will be better in 2025 - Geelong or Hawthorn?
- Thread starter Black Haze
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- May 6, 2007
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this settles it,
Bobby Hill is quite clearly a better player than (>insert any name you wish who doesnt have a Norm Smith Medal... here< )
hawkman
Hall of Famer
Was he very good in 25? I have no intention of watching the game back but I remember Dangerfield, Smith and Atkins torching us, I don't remember Holmes doing that
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Had a Barry Crocker along with a squad of teammates in the 1st quarter. Once he got off the leash we looked good.
I think he had 17-18 kicks in quarters 2-4 (without the turnover-fest of the GF) and was full of run. I'd probably have him next in line behind the 3 you mentioned.
Newcombe just didn't have much influence at all. Running in treacle didn't help, but his disposals lacked the usual impact too.
- May 6, 2007
- 48,235
- 31,436
- AFL Club
- Essendon
- Other Teams
- Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
hawkman
Hall of Famer
I looked at the Ayres medal votes and he got none. Blicavs, Miers and Stengle got votes (Atkins got none which surprised me). Calling it very good surprised me as I thought he was ok but behind a few.
Newcombe battled away but had no real influence
I rate coaches votes but it's obvious players can be very good without getting them. Atkins an excellent example, in fact he gets snubbed a lot.
Your post seems to suggest the top 3 players on the ground are very good and the rest are okay or worse. That shows we look at football matches quite differently.
If Holmes in the PF was okay, then you would have to scale Newcombe down to very poor.
- Nov 12, 2014
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He joined in the party later in the game from what I remember, was ok without being prominent in the 1st half.
- Nov 12, 2014
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Actually felt in both games this year he was decent without being dominate, Easter Monday included in that.
- Nov 12, 2014
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Disagree I thought he had minimal impact across the game. Few nice things. We looked at that game differently obviously.
- Nov 12, 2014
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Mannagh was the guy who caused us the most grief and Bailey Smith in the 1st half.
It's fine to have a foggy recollection of the game and not want to watch it again.
Holmes did nothing in Q1 but then had something like 23 disposals, close to 500m gained and 7 score involvements in the last 3 quarters. Ran the Hawks off their feet. Smith's game was better but Holmes was one of many that were very good Q2-4.
- Nov 12, 2014
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Amon and Newcombe were our best, Amon got let down by some of his teammates undoing his good work getting the ball to them by stuffing up the next possession or missing the shot at goal.
hawkman
Hall of Famer
Not at all! It was the very good that surprised. If you said good fair enough. I would have very good for the best 4 or 5 on the ground and I didn't think Holmes was in that category.
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Agree somewhat about the trend you mention.
In 2022 - Newcombe clearly better
In 2023 - Newcombe clearly better
In 2024 - I'd say Newcombe slightly, but happy to call it even
In 2025 - Holmes better.
So in that sense I agree that the 'trajectory' is currently with Holmes - who has taken big jumps the last couple of years (Newcombe took his jumps earlier and plateaued last season).
Don't care for "closer to AA selection/best for his position" as an argument though. On that measure, Josh Battle was closer to best for his position (AA team) than Max Holmes (squad) in 2025. Mark Keane (AA squad) closer than Zach Merrett (not selected). It doesn't mean you are a better player or had a better season, given the standard required to make it as a midfielder is much higher than the standard required to make it as a defender. On the majority of metrics (some which would favour a midfielder) Newcombe was better in 2024 (but again, happy to call it even to avoid a long back and forth). Holmes went up a level again in 2025 and Newcombe regressed slightly.
I'm making excuses now but it's certainly harder to perform in a midfield with little support, particularly if/when taggers can consistently target the same player. We sought to address this in the off season and couldn't manage a solution for the short term (instead getting a little weaker by losing Worpel). I sure hope Day can stay fit and the support cast can take the next step to allow Newcombe, the midfield and the broader team to shine in 2026 and beyond (cos that was clearly the gap between us and the teams that made the Grand Final).
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