AFL Autopsy RND 1: Done by the Hawkes

[Donflicted]

I think what angers me the most is this disconnect with the midfield and the forwards we seem to still have and have had for the last 15 years

Bomb it forward

I am happy to take 100 point floggings all year if i can see improvement in that aspect

Our forwards need to move and lead more and our midfield need to stop bombing on the boot and look for better options total disconnect from both parts of the field

 

[jctrout]

I think what angers me the most is this disconnect with the midfield and the forwards we seem to still have and have had for the last 15 years

Bomb it forward

I am happy to take 100 point floggings all year if i can see improvement in that aspect

Our forwards need to move and lead more and our midfield need to stop bombing on the boot and look for better options total disconnect from both parts of the field

fundamentally we have chased this dream of pushing half forwards up to stoppages to win clearance and spread, giving tall forwards space, but this removes key structural elements and is Pyrite. Take Geelong for example, they rarely collapse the structure to win clearance ball and would rather keep alignment in the centre line and the fat side - This is why guys like Ollie Dempsey look like superstars, because the wings and half forwards get all the space they need to run into, while the rest of the field remains structurally set. They force opposition to play wider than normal, or get trapped on the inside of the play with the fat side way open. Geelong play such a simple game by comparison and as Ant says, they work on beating their opponent first. Watch any game they play from behind the goals, their structure and discipling is a thing of beauty.

 

[Old Campaigner]

fundamentally we have chased this dream of pushing half forwards up to stoppages to win clearance and spread, giving tall forwards space, but this removes key structural elements and is Pyrite. Take Geelong for example, they rarely collapse the structure to win clearance ball and would rather keep alignment in the centre line and the fat side - This is why guys like Ollie Dempsey look like superstars, because the wings and half forwards get all the space they need to run into, while the rest of the field remains structurally set. They force opposition to play wider than normal, or get trapped on the inside of the play with the fat side way open. Geelong play such a simple game by comparison and as Ant says, they work on beating their opponent first. Watch any game they play from behind the goals, their structure and discipling is a thing of beauty.

It no doubt helps they can sit down every new player to the club and tell them “this is how we’ve won the last xyz flags, you can play this system or gtfo”

 

[King Patty]

It no doubt helps they can sit down every new player to the club and tell them “this is how we’ve won the last xyz flags, you can play this system or gtfo”

Our midfield is supposed to be our strongest area of the ground.

We shouldn't be adding a extra to the stoppage.

As opposition loose players tear us apart.

Having an extra on transition used effectively, makes everyone looking like they are chasing tail, due to the extra number.

Also no point winning the stoppage to only turn it over at half forward and then try to defend with everyone ran forward of opponents.

 

[Squeaky]

How good is it having the footy back...
FMD we are shite.
It's going to be another looong year for EFC. (Stack it up over there with all the other long years)

 

[Old Campaigner]

Our midfield is supposed to be our strongest area of the ground.

We shouldn't be adding a extra to the stoppage.

As opposition loose players tear us apart.

Having an extra on transition used effectively, makes everyone looking like they are chasing tail, due to the extra number.

Also no point winning the stoppage to only turn it over at half forward and then try to defend with everyone ran forward of opponents.

Both things can be true. The midfield is probably a strength of ours while also being only borderline AFL standard from the point of view of being able to execute a specific game plan while stopping the opponent from executing theirs

 

[Call Me Cake]

How good is it having the footy back...
FMD we are shite.
It's going to be another looong year for EFC. (Stack it up over there with all the other long years)

Mate literally 95% of us were expecting a long year. The demographic of the list made it obvious. If you expected otherwise you missed the memo. Spoiler alert, we're gonna cop a few 100 point floggings this year. Every side that is at the apex of their list turnover in a rebuild goes through it. Just gotta to clench our butts and fight it through.

 

[Squeaky]

Mate literally 95% of us were expecting a long year. The demographic of the list made it obvious. If you expected otherwise you missed the memo. Spoiler alert, we're gonna cop a few 100 point floggings this year. Just gotta to clench our butts and fight it through.

Don't disagree - thought we'd be smart enough not to time the ground zero rebuild when the draft is the most compromised.
But here we are - color me shocked.
We're going to bottom out for fk all in return.

I was ready for the rebuild fking years ago btw.
Now, i am fresh out of fks to give.

 

[bacon buster]

Mate literally 95% of us were expecting a long year. The demographic of the list made it obvious. If you expected otherwise you missed the memo. Spoiler alert, we're gonna cop a few 100 point floggings this year. Every side that is at the apex of their list turnover in a rebuild goes through it. Just gotta to clench our butts and fight it through.

We've had our fair share of 100 point floggings the last few years (or near enough to)

I think I'm at the point in my football supporting life I've never been at before. Embarrassed to be an EFC fan. There's been some dark years where we could at least point to some hope on the horizon. Or see some "green shoots"

I didn't see it last year. We had 15 debutants, but I don't think any will come close to being an A grader (or even B+ grader).

I went on Friday night. I don't know when I'll go again this year. North will definitely get us this year, so I won't be attending that one for sure.

The only team we have a realistic chance of beating is West Coast

 

[Donflicted]

We've had our fair share of 100 point floggings the last few years (or near enough to)

I think I'm at the point in my football supporting life I've never been at before. Embarrassed to be an EFC fan. There's been some dark years where we could at least point to some hope on the horizon. Or see some "green shoots"

I didn't see it last year. We had 15 debutants, but I don't think any will come close to being an A grader (or even B+ grader).

I went on Friday night. I don't know when I'll go again this year. North will definitely get us this year, so I won't be attending that one for sure.

The only team we have a realistic chance of beating is West Coast

West Coast will beat us

GCS after that first half they played a much better game then we did against the Hawks they are only bad as they are young they do have actual buy in especially from there senior players

 

[Call Me Cake]

Don't disagree - thought we'd be smart enough not to time the ground zero rebuild when the draft is the most compromised.
But here we are - color me shocked.
We're going to bottom out for fk all in return.

I was ready for the rebuild fking years ago btw.
Now, i am fresh out of fks to give.

Rebuild doesn't mean you finish on the bottom. It means you turn over the list. Unfortunately the list can't be turned over in one off-season, there are contracts and such to see out and you need some experience around, and you can't draft half a side in one off-season. We've had to do that, and change the off-field stuff, over the last couple years. You also want to do it in a way that you aren't suffering 100 point losses for 3+ years.

Unfortunately once you're further along, you start to reach a point where most of the list is turned over/dead weight is cut and you're at the mercy of said gutted list that's made up of inexperience and you're not just trying to figure out what your best 23 could be but also trying to get them to retain what they're being taught. This is the most painful part (apex) of a rebuild and the part that some either stick through it or chimp out demanding instant results, sacking the coach, trading draft picks, etc. which is what we've done periodically for the last 20 years.

 

[Old Campaigner]

We've had our fair share of 100 point floggings the last few years (or near enough to)

I think I'm at the point in my football supporting life I've never been at before. Embarrassed to be an EFC fan. There's been some dark years where we could at least point to some hope on the horizon. Or see some "green shoots"

I didn't see it last year. We had 15 debutants, but I don't think any will come close to being an A grader (or even B+ grader).

I went on Friday night. I don't know when I'll go again this year. North will definitely get us this year, so I won't be attending that one for sure.

The only team we have a realistic chance of beating is West Coast

Why get embarrassed by it? The club is doing a long, long overdue rebuild so it’s natural we’re going to suck.

I’d be more embarrassed to be a saints fan since they look like they suck despite the massive shopping spree they went on - what’s their excuse there?

 

[Squeaky]

Rebuild doesn't mean you finish on the bottom. It means you turn over the list. Unfortunately the list can't be turned over in one off-season, there are contracts and such to see out and you need some experience around, and you can't draft half a side in one off-season. We've had to do that, and change the off-field stuff, over the last couple years. You also want to do it in a way that you aren't suffering 100 point losses for 3+ years.

Unfortunately once you're further along, you start to reach a point where most of the list is turned over/dead weight is cut and you're at the mercy of said gutted list that's made up of inexperience and you're not just trying to figure out what your best 23 could be but also trying to get them to retain what they're being taught. This is the most painful part (apex) of a rebuild and the part that some either stick through it or chimp out demanding instant results, sacking the coach, trading draft picks, etc. which is what we've done periodically for the last 20 years.

Semantics, but I actually agree.
If we are going to turn over the list - best we had made this decision many moons ago yeah? And part of the trade off would be to secure A grade talent via a series of awesome draft hands. Now we are doing all the hard work - which as a means of improvement I agree with. It is the proven path afterall.
But we are going to now be holding far inferior picks to replace the players with along the way... Welcome to the 'Essendon way'
As I said - I was all for this - well before the club finally came to its senses.
But all the rooting around for years not knowing where we were and trying every short cut known to man (wasting seasons) means we are not going to receive any help from a fistful of awesome draft picks - a la Richmond.
As such, it would be folly to think that we will get a Richmond like result at the end of all this pain.

It's like, we all know it sucks to be an EFC fan and all the prior 15 years of garbage isn't enough to now have an ill timed moment of clarity that: backwards is the way forward - (except for this little period in time where the draft will be fkd.)
But we're doing it anyway.

 

[ant555]

Have had a bit of a look back through the game.

Now first up effort should be non-negotiable, and we basically turned it up after making a few errors in a row in the second quarter. That is not good enough and that is the disappointing part. There were legitimate excuses for some of the stuff that happened, but lack of effort is not on. We are not in their class, but you do not give up in the second quarter. It is the area Scott has to address. Not game plan. Competing for 4 quarters. If he is to prove he is the right coach for the job going forward he will have to make some serious decisions on a few senior players as the year rolls on.

Some observations.

The game plan was impossible to really get a read on. I have seen what they work on at training, but what set it off the rails was the poor skill level which led to panic and turnovers and then giving up. The first quarter we were okay. Moved the ball okay. Made a couple of mistakes but it was generally a pass. However, what stops us from being able to play fast footy is poor skill level. This is not just turnovers either. It is the momentum killing handball that does not hit team mates to advantage or is at their feet. It slows they play down and kills the momentum. The forwards leads are all out of sync because of it. More often than not it forces another pressure handball and then another and the fast forward kicking game is gone. I was watching the Geelong game and looking at what they did that was outrageously different to us and to be honest, other than the obvious fact they have better players than us it was not that different. The difference was they had an ability to hit the handball and get the play moving. They did not continually handball at players feet or behind them or over their head.

Add this to the poor / dumb delivery inside 50 and you get what we dish up. Of course we cannot see the game plan. There is no game plan for poor skills.

As David King mentioned on Fox Footy. Too many experienced guys making lazy defensive mistakes. Merrett. Durham. Redman. McGrath. Prish. Caldwell. Langford.

Have mentioned this before but 2027 cannot have both Parish and Merrett. The defensive liability simply out weights the offensive gain.

Roberts. Caldwell. Durham were also well below what was needed defensively. Probably a tough ask for Roberts first up in the midfield but he gave up the chase a few times. Caldwell and Durham you would expect better.

Peter Wright is basically clogging the list. Is giving us nothing in the ruck or forward most weeks. His anticipation is as slow as his leg speed. Defenders just run past him. Can not mark unless we fluke a kick to his advantage. Seems to take the main leading lane nearly all the time.

Langford was woeful. Looked like he was sooking it up for some reason.

Will say it again. Prior and Fiorini worked on the wing. Hawks wings were not a factor. Too bad no one else could defend. It stopped any chance of our wings also helping in defence.

Duursma was pretty good in his role. Whoever he ended up with was not given too much leeway.

Lack of fitness / endurance hurt Huss at times, but he did some good stuff and at least he was positioned front and centre as much as he could.

It is what it is. Too many gaps in the list and several experienced guys that need to shape up or ship out.

 

[faible]

Both things can be true. The midfield is probably a strength of ours while also being only borderline AFL standard from the point of view of being able to execute a specific game plan while stopping the opponent from executing theirs

Under Rutten we used an extra around stoppages as a way to offset our individual players not quite being able to beat their direct opponents with even numbers. It kind of worked, but then it meant we lost a player on the outside which absolutely burned up.

Not sure if we're still doing this.

 

[King Patty]

Will say it again. Prior and Fiorini worked on the wing. Hawks wings were not a factor. Too bad no one else could defend. It stopped any chance of our wings also helping in defence.

They worked hard...but disposal a bit off - Fiorinini should ahve nailed that goal in particular.

maybe even tried one of them as defensive forward on Amon or Impey.

 

[bacon buster]

Why get embarrassed by it? The club is doing a long, long overdue rebuild so it’s natural we’re going to suck.

I’d be more embarrassed to be a saints fan since they look like they suck despite the massive shopping spree they went on - what’s their excuse there?

We've been rebuilding forever. I don't mind sucking. I mind the pitiful lack of effort I see way too regularly from the senior players in this group.

If we were giving effort and losing by 10 goals, and we could see a few young players show some flahses, I could accept that.

The Hawks were in 3rd gear and having a laugh on Friday. They could and should have won by 100+, playing in 3rd gear. Apart from Sharp's 2 goals and Blakiston looking ok at centre bounces, I didn't find anything interesting or exciting to hold on to in the way we played, or the players out on the field.

 

[jctrout]

It no doubt helps they can sit down every new player to the club and tell them “this is how we’ve won the last xyz flags, you can play this system or gtfo”

HAHA Are you kidding? That's exactly what the club has been doing, but it's coming from guys who played in the 90's and early 2000's!

 

[carloss]

 

[MiguelM]

Need to move the magnets around a bit too.

Hawks had an extra in their backline knowing our mids would run forward and bomb it to an outnumbered contest, or worse pick out the free Hawk (normally Sicily). So bombing it gave them a high probability of a turnover. When the inevitable turnover happened, Hawks were free everywhere ahead of the contest and just waltzed it into their forward line.

Surely the coaches can see this a mile away? Did we try and even up the numbers in our forward line? no we had a spare back but the difference is Hawks can pinpoint a pass at will inside 50, they rarely bomb it blindly.

 

[bacon buster]

Will say it again. Prior and Fiorini worked on the wing. Hawks wings were not a factor. Too bad no one else could defend. It stopped any chance of our wings also helping in defence.

Who was on Weddle when he marked in 40m of space then walzed in and kicked a goal?

 

[ant555]

Who was on Weddle when he marked in 40m of space then walzed in and kicked a goal?

You want to isolate 1 possession in a half?

 

[bacon buster]

You want to isolate 1 possession in a half?

Yep. It was an enormous breakdown - just wondering who was playing on him at the time

 

[Saint]

It was a bad first game, but it was their second game and our first. We're in the Carlton/Richmond status of young players learning.

The problem is lack of leadership. Who is leading these young players?

Who holds McGrath accountable? Brad Scott can't yell at everyone every game or it'll lose its purpose, probably already has.

But any coach would be in the same boat.