17 in a row

[Stocka]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 17 in a row

The worst part about you, barry, is the fact that one minute you'll have a swipe, then the next, you'll say it wasn't a swipe at all, but with the very next post you're having a swipe again.

At least have the gumption to have a swipe and stick by it. At least then, you might gain a quart of respect - even if you are still entirely wrong.

Originally posted by barry

RoyLion you have completely missed the point.

Actually, I think you've done the honours on that one.

Likewise, it seems that while you seem to think you're in a position to question others, you have failed miserably to show any sign of having any knowledge on the topic what-so-ever. I mean, you haven't even been able to provide answers where you have been questioned, yet, you still

Originally posted by barry

My orginal post in this thread was complementary of Brisbane, and held a wish that Sydney were as flexible. Is that lowering yourself, then you must wish for a group where only winners can post and gloat. No thanks. What gracious winners the lions have become.

One minute you are having a go at us for being "ingracious", yet, at the same time you also referred to us (well, the Fitzroy element of the Brisbane Lions), as being bandwagoners from last season's premiership.

Likewise, how do you think those with a Fitzroy background feel, when being congratulated for a win, yet at the same time feeling alienated by the use of a name for their club which marginalises their involvement? Where's the logic in that? (Dare I say it, none).

I mean, what is it? On one hand you think you're congratulating us, yet the next you're trying to diminish our sovereignty, or ownership of last year's premiership by calling us bandwagoners and marginalising sections of the supporter base?

Pfft. Talk about inconsistent.

Originally posted by barry

Calling Brisbane the Bears is a lot less provocative than calling Collingwood the wobblers, Geelong the hand-bags, or Port the smears.

According to who? I doubt many Brisbane Lions supporters would see it that way.

As I said earlier, it's only the non-Brisbane Lions people who get it wrong.

Originally posted by barry

Terms that get used every day.

Doesn't mean they are right, or rightly used. If you wish to use them, fair enough, but as I said earlier, expect the reply that you've had so far . . . . and hey, don't have such a whinge about it. It's obviously YOUR problem (your misconceptions), not ours.

Originally posted by barry

Sorry if I find that incredibly and stupidly insecure.

No-one's asking for your judgement. How about you go stick it.

As I said earlier, it seems to me that you're the one with the misconceptions, not us - perhaps it's you who has the problem.

Originally posted by barry

I'd be honoured if I call Sydney the "bloods", you can even call them "South" if you want as we are proud of our history.

So . . . I'm sure there are many Swans fans who WOULDN'T see it as appropriate. Do you think you speak on behalf of all Swans fans? It wouldn't surprise me if you thought that though, as going by what you've contributed so far, you're obviously basing your opinions and expectations of others on your own ego-centric views.

Keep on serving up the cakes barry.

 

[Stocka]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 17 in a row

Originally posted by barry


Oh man, now you tell me your only 21. I've been wasting my time here in this thread with someone whos only appreciation of football history must have come from a book, as he/she hasnt been around long enough to experience it.

Gee, you really must be one seriously mentally deprived individual to come out with a comment like that! Playing the man again I see - you really are a soft **** aren't you?

I've been following football since I was only a kid - I think in that time, I've seen enough to have substantial opinions of the game. At any rate, what has my age got to with it? (Like as if I wouldn't have developed substantial opinions by that age anyway . . . . pfft). It's self-evident by this thread that being only 21 doesn't impact on how passionate I am about football, or Fitzroy. Likewise, are you saying now, that since you know I'm 21, that you've decided since that point that my knowledge on football isn't up to scratch? A touch hypocritical don't you think, borry?

You really are from the peanut brigade aren't you? Pfft.

Anyway borry, how about YOU tell US about your lack of football pedigree? Pretty stupid exercise isn't it, but seeing as you want everyone else to justify themselves to you, why don't you do us the pleasure of reciprocating??

 

[Danni]

psst Stocka - he gave us his pedigree already remember? He went to Carrara and sat on real grass and things weren't as bad as I said except if I was expecting a premiership every year.
Seems that on field performance is the measure of how 'good' or 'bad' things were.

 

[barry]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 17 in a row

Originally posted by Stocka


Gee, you really must be one seriously mentally deprived individual to come out with a comment like that! Playing the man again I see - you really are a soft **** aren't you?

I've been following football since I was only a kid - I think in that time, I've seen enough to have substantial opinions of the game. At any rate, what has my age got to with it? (Like as if I wouldn't have developed substantial opinions by that age anyway . . . . pfft). It's self-evident by this thread that being only 21 doesn't impact on how passionate I am about football, or Fitzroy. Likewise, are you saying now, that since you know I'm 21, that you've decided since that point that my knowledge on football isn't up to scratch? A touch hypocritical don't you think, borry?

You really are from the peanut brigade aren't you? Pfft.

Anyway borry, how about YOU tell US about your lack of football pedigree? Pretty stupid exercise isn't it, but seeing as you want everyone else to justify themselves to you, why don't you do us the pleasure of reciprocating??

What an embarrasing, immature rant. Are you sure you arent a dyslexic 12?
What on earth does "Pfft" mean. ?

As a Fitzroy supporter, turned Brisbane supporter who lives in Melbourne still, I'm sure you are well versed on all things NRL. Since after all, your team is competing in NRL heartland and success or failure does have some loose correlation to the fortunes of the Broncos. No doubt if you are as passionate as you claim, this would be the case. I'll assume so.
So in your studies of the NRL you would have undoubtable come across some very interesting real life examples of merger, extinction, ressurection. I am specifically talking about Souths here.
Souths were far deeper in the poo than Fitzroy. They could barely get 6000 to a game before the NRL chopped them. The NRL also tried to force them to merge will some other teams. But no, Souths stood firm, took the NRL to court, won, and are now pulling crowd 2 to 3 times the comp average.
Souths for all there problems make Fitzroys fight to survive look pathetic.

Fitzroy have taken the illawara (sp?) route. Merging with St George. It happens occationally now, and more and more so, but the Illawara of StGeorge/Illawara is slowly being dropped. Wont be long before they are known as just St George.
I predict the "Fitzroy" part will soon be dropped by Brisbane, because what does the average Queenslander have in common with a derelict suburb in Melbourne.
Then what will you do Stocka?

 

[barry]

Originally posted by Danni
psst Stocka - he gave us his pedigree already remember? He went to Carrara and sat on real grass and things weren't as bad as I said except if I was expecting a premiership every year.
Seems that on field performance is the measure of how 'good' or 'bad' things were.

Danni, the joy of football comes from more than just premierships.
I cant beleive you didnt enjoy the days of the bears.

 

[Stocka]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 17 in a row

Originally posted by barry


What an embarrasing, immature rant. Are you sure you arent a dyslexic 12?

Considering you haven't been able to answer ANY of the questions I mentioned earlier, yet continue to question others, and play the man, I'd suggest your credibility for making such statements is around about zilch!

Do I feel embarrrassed? If I do, it hasn't set in yet! Although, your lacking knowledge regarding the Brisbane Lions, Fitzroy, and the Bears is an embarrassment to anyone considering themselves well-versed on football issues.

Originally posted by barry

As a Fitzroy supporter, turned Brisbane supporter who lives in Melbourne still,

No, actually, I still am a Fitzroy supporter (and current member), who happens to also support the Brisbane Lions (also a current member).

Originally posted by barry

I'm sure you are well versed on all things NRL. Since after all, your team is competing in NRL heartland and success or failure does have some loose correlation to the fortunes of the Broncos. No doubt if you are as passionate as you claim, this would be the case. I'll assume so.

As far as I'm concerned, you're introducing a new issue entirely. (Grasping at straws).

The topic is not, and was not, about the future successes of the Lions, in terms of the QLD market.

Geez borry, keep on task!

Likewise, I don't need a lightweight like yourself to start questioning my passion levels! Who do you think you are, to put yourself in a position to judge? Pfft! Besides, most people on here would vouch for my dedication to Fitzroy, and the Brisbane Lions - which is also evidenced by the fact that I am a full financial member of both clubs (and have been for many years).

Originally posted by barry

So in your studies of the NRL you would have undoubtable come across some very interesting real life examples of merger, extinction, ressurection. I am specifically talking about Souths here.
Souths were far deeper in the poo than Fitzroy. They could barely get 6000 to a game before the NRL chopped them. The NRL also tried to force them to merge will some other teams. But no, Souths stood firm, took the NRL to court, won, and are now pulling crowd 2 to 3 times the comp average.

As I said above, what has this got to do at all with whether or not the Brisbane LIONS are representative of Fitzroy or not? (After all, that was the original issue).

You really like going off on a tangent don't you borry? You seem to like asking questions of others, which aren't relevant to the issue, yet, you fail miserably to answer any questions of you which ARE relevant to the discussion!

Anyone would think you don't know what you're talking about! I don't see too many people agreeing with you on this one either, mate . . .

Originally posted by barry

Souths for all there problems make Fitzroys fight to survive look pathetic.

So much for your earlier comment, where you claimed that you weren't having a go at people.

I wouldn't expect you to be a good judge of the situation anyway. Considering the circumstances, I think Fitzroy are fairly lucky the way things have panned out (as it could have been far worse), and likewise, I, like many other Fitzroy people, continue to make the best of what we can - and as far as I'm concerned, that has been a fullfilling experience (via the Fitzroy Reds and Brisbane Lions).

Originally posted by barry

Fitzroy have taken the illawara (sp?) route. Merging with St George. It happens occationally now, and more and more so, but the Illawara of StGeorge/Illawara is slowly being dropped. Wont be long before they are known as just St George.

I predict the "Fitzroy" part will soon be dropped by Brisbane, because what does the average Queenslander have in common with a derelict suburb in Melbourne.
Then what will you do Stocka?

This just goes to show how far from reality you are.

Why would the Brisbane Lions drop all reference to Fitzroy? After all, they have around 3000 financial members in Victoria, and considering the membership tally is barely reaching 20,000 all up, those 3000 members are vital to the club's viabilities as a national club.

Likewise, why, after 5 years of continuous marketting to the Victorian/Fitzroy market, would the club turn its back on this objective? I mean, this year even, they have adopted the BB-FFC logo on the back of the jumper! If anything, it looks as though there will be more recognition of Fitzroy, rather than less.

Besides, any such move would come under immense scrutiny from the football media, and public in general. The club would be cast as traitors, and would be one of the most hated clubs in the league, if not, in Australian sport. Any chance of a Victorian membership base would be removed which would cast a significant blow to the club.

What would the club possibly have to gain from such a move, that would outweigh all the negatives? I suggest you're pulling at straws, and baseless speculation with your ideas, borry.

In any regard, the club CANNOT drop Fitzroy, as that would be a breach of the merger agreement - in such an event the club would be taken to court. Likewise, the corporate and board structure of the club, as well as the club identity is all formed around the merger of the Brisbane Bears and Fitzroy Lions, creating the Brisbane Bears/Fitzroy Football Club. If they were to 'drop' Fitzroy, this would be creating a new club, and legal entity entirely - the process of which, would cost millions, in consideration of the cross-overs that would result, in regards to the various operations of the club (ie: playing, administration, membership, etc. etc.).

You really don't know your facts, do you borry?!

 

[Stocka]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 17 in a row

To rehash on some earlier stuff:

Originally posted by barry


Fitzroy died my friend. Died, and then an oppotuistic team from interstate saw a chance to change their name from an embarrasing skase-ism to something better, and pick up a couple of handy players.

Bears, bears, bears, bears bears

Ok borry, answer me these then (which I posted a couple of days ago):

Originally posted by Stocka

If Fitzroy are dead, then explain why:
* They are listed in the phone directory (perhaps you'd better ring them up and tell them they no longer exist! I'm sure that'd get a laugh!).
* Why they have their own website
* Why they are listed with a current ABN number and have a current board of directors (who held the club's AGM last week)
* Why they are sponsoring a number of Victorian football teams with Fitzroy identities
* How the hell did I receive my 2002 membership card in the mail this week, if they are dead???

Likewise, if the Brisbane Lions are merely a repackaged Brisbane Bears, then howcome:
* The Brisbane Lions have the name Fitzroy included in the 'club' name?
* What's that FFC alongside the BB doing on the back of the jumper?
* Why is the club's mascot a Lion (in Fitzroy colours) too?
* Why are does the club have a stipulation for 2 Victorian directors of the club?
* Why is the Fitzroy Past Players Association merged with that of the Bears, and Brisbane Lions?
* Why do people commonly recognise that Fitzroy is represented in the Brisbane Lions?
* Why are Fitzroy's club legends honoured in the club's hall of fame?
* Why does the club hold function such as the 'Fitzroy Team of Our Century'?
* Why do the Lions receive support of up to 10,000 supporters at Melbourne games and why are there 3000 Victorian members of a club, which according to you, supposedly doesn't cater for them?

I doubt you can come up with reasonable answers to those question, and likewise, I also doubt whether you could come up with 5 valid reasons each as to why Fitzroy is 'dead', and also why the Brisbane Lions are really the "Bears" in disguise.

There's some homework for you borry! Don't bother coming back until it's all finished, now, will you!

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Stocka

Likewise, if the Brisbane Lions are merely a repackaged Brisbane Bears, then how come:
* The Brisbane Lions have the name Fitzroy included in the 'club' name?
* What's that FFC alongside the BB doing on the back of the jumper?
* Why is the club's mascot a Lion (in Fitzroy colours) too?
* Why are does the club have a stipulation for 2 Victorian directors of the club?
* Why is the Fitzroy Past Players Association merged with that of the Bears, and Brisbane Lions?
* Why do people commonly recognise that Fitzroy is represented in the Brisbane Lions?
* Why are Fitzroy's club legends honoured in the club's hall of fame?
* Why does the club hold functions such as the 'Fitzroy Team of Our Century'?
* Why do the Lions receive support of up to 10,000 supporters at Melbourne games and why are there 3000 Victorian members of a club, which according to you, supposedly doesn't cater for them?

Well said Stocka....

For Barry's benefit I'll just add to your list...

- The Brisbane Lions use the tune of Fitzroy's song, with the word FITZROY in it with and phrases from the old Fitzroy song as well as Brisbane's about 50% each,
- Brisbane has the same coterie groups as at Fitzroy such as the "Lion Hunters' etc.,
- Brisbane has the father-son rule from Fitzroy (e.g Jonathon Brown),
- As you know (and I'll repeat it here for Barry's sake), that The Past Players Association that you mentioned is called "Fitzroy-Brisbane Past Players and Officials Association" headed by Fitzroy stalwarts such as Norm Brown, Arthur Edwards, Mick Conlan etc. etc., Paul Roos stated last year that in his opinion there was "plenty of Fitzroy in the Brisbane Lions".
- Former Fitzroy President Leon Weigard is now a patron of the club
- The Brisbane Lions Best and Fairest Medal is named the Merrett-MURRAY Medal and that the choice of name for Fitzroy half was chosen by a ballot of Fitzroy members in 1997.
- At the Gabba, every Fitzroy captain and Brownlow Medallist from 1883 has his photograph and details displayed for all to read.
- In the players rooms all locker numbers have a list of all the Fitzroy players who wore that number.
- The Brisbane Lions have a large Victorian social club operation located in the middle of the old Fitzroy recruiting zone at Bulleen in Melbourne.
- Fitzroy's last President Dyson Hore-Lacy, who initially opposed the merger stated in 1999 that Fitzroy fans have three teams to support, Brisbane Lions, Coburg-Fitzroy (sadly no longer) and the Fitzroy Reds.
- Life members of Fitzroy are automatically life members of the Brisbane Lions,
- Brisbane sponsors the Fitzroy Juniors and Fitzroy Reds who play at Fitzroy's spiritual home, the Brunswick St. Oval.
- The Brisbane Lions begin their club records in 1997...not 1987.
- Chairman Graeme Downie periodically blasts the AFL over the shoddy AFL recognition of Fitzroy's records in comparison to the Bears records.
- The name Brisbane is NOT to be displayed on AFL scoreboards, outside the city of Brisbane. Just LIONS will be used instead.
- The Chairman Graeme Downie stated last year , after the Grand Final night that the Lions premiership belonged as much to Fitzroy as it did to the Brisbane Bears.

The Lions are a new club beginning in 1997, as a result of a merger between the Brisbane Bears and the Fitzroy Lions and therefore elements of both.

Barry, if you still believe that the Lions are really the Bears then the onus is on you to present at least some concrete evidence to support your claims. I'm afraid I don't really see how the NRL experience is evidence, that the Lions are in fact the Bears, as you appear to be claiming.

I very much doubt your claims that the Fitzroy part will be dropped anytime soon. There's too much of the Fitzroy identity in the Brisbane Lions for that to happen...a fact emphasised by the current board over and over again. In fact the present trend is to embrace more of the Fitzroy identity, as myself and Stocka have outlined above.

 

[barry]

Stocka, we have now weeded out of you that you are first and foremost a Fitzroy supporter and not a Brisbane supporter because you have little knowledge of the day to day queensland issues. (Fair enough, you've never lived there)

You support the Lions simply because they are called the lions and because daddy and grand-daddy did too. Not one for making up your own mind I see.

Here's an analogy I heard at the time of the merger which I think sums it up: The AFL had two patients. One interstate who was very sick and in need of a lifesaving heart transplant. Another one locally who was clinically dead and in a coma. The AFL decided to let the local one die so that it could transplant the heart out of it to give life to the sick one. [Heart as in the physical organ, nothing spirital here]. The sick one lived on.

Brisbane have grown from strength to strength since the operation, and spend a lot more time and money in their own market than they ever do in Melbourne.
If you can get 3000 old roy supporters for nothing, why not. But if and when they become no.1 code in queensland and have 40,000 members up there, I could easily see them forgetting about the fitzroy connection.
You only have to look at mergers in any other codes in the world to see that. And as I said before you only have to look around the corner at the NRL. Let a little time pass and see what happens.

I think you are in the minority of Brisbane supporters who take offence to light hearted calling of the team "bears", but I could understand if you were in the majority of roy supporters who felt that way. Luckily there arent many of you.

 

[barry]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 17 in a row

Originally posted by Stocka
To rehash on some earlier stuff:


Likewise, if the Brisbane Lions are merely a repackaged Brisbane Bears, then howcome:
* The Brisbane Lions have the name Fitzroy included in the 'club' name?
* What's that FFC alongside the BB doing on the back of the jumper?

What does the BB stand for?

And if RoyLion is offended by "bears", surely old Brisbane Bears supporters would be offended by "Roys".
Maybe old nicknames just stick.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Can't argue with those well-researched facts.

Did I just say "well-researched facts"? Sorry, what I meant to say was supposition and half-bottomed guesswork.

Getting towelled here, Baz.

 

[barry]

Originally posted by Roylion


Well said Stocka....

For Barry's benefit I'll just add to your list...

- The Brisbane Lions use the tune of Fitzroy's song, with the word FITZROY in it with and phrases from the old Fitzroy song as well as Brisbane's about 50% each,

Brisbanes old song was a joke. A win for the bears.

- Brisbane has the same coterie groups as at Fitzroy such as the "Lion Hunters' etc.,

A name based on the mascot??

- Brisbane has the father-son rule from Fitzroy (e.g Jonathon Brown),

A nice pick up for the Bears, something crows and coasters would love

- As you know (and I'll repeat it here for Barry's sake), that The Past Players Association that you mentioned is called "Fitzroy-Brisbane Past Players and Officials Association" headed by Fitzroy stalwarts such as Norm Brown, Arthur Edwards, Mick Conlan etc. etc., Paul Roos stated last year that in his opinion there was "plenty of Fitzroy in the Brisbane Lions".

Paul Roos the ex-fitzroy player who deserted ship. (thankfully to sydney)
Got any unbiased quotes?

- Former Fitzroy President Leon Weigard is now a patron of the club

Hollingworth was the no1. ticket holder.....thats the calibre.
Name the other patrons?

- The Brisbane Lions Best and Fairest Medal is named the Merrett-MURRAY Medal and that the choice of name for Fitzroy half was chosen by a ballot of Fitzroy members in 1997.

Good old Roger

- At the Gabba, every Fitzroy captain and Brownlow Medallist from 1883 has his photograph and details displayed for all to read.
- In the players rooms all locker numbers have a list of all the Fitzroy players who wore that number.

Cosmetic

- The Brisbane Lions have a large Victorian social club operation located in the middle of the old Fitzroy recruiting zone at Bulleen in Melbourne.

Large? As large as the Brisbane operations?

- Fitzroy's last President Dyson Hore-Lacy, who initially opposed the merger stated in 1999 that Fitzroy fans have three teams to support, Brisbane Lions, Coburg-Fitzroy (sadly no longer) and the Fitzroy Reds.

Whore-Lacy sold you out. See my Souths example

- Life members of Fitzroy are automatically life members of the Brisbane Lions,

Cosmetic

- Brisbane sponsors the Fitzroy Juniors and Fitzroy Reds who play at Fitzroy's spiritual home, the Brunswick St. Oval.

Until the money runs out.

- The Brisbane Lions begin their club records in 1997...not 1987.

Free history and premierships... great

- Chairman Graeme Downie periodically blasts the AFL over the shoddy AFL recognition of Fitzroy's records in comparison to the Bears records.

Does that mean things arent as rosey as you paint?

- The name Brisbane is NOT to be displayed on AFL scoreboards, outside the city of Brisbane. Just LIONS will be used instead.

THat will change. They used to only show "Swans" on scoreboards for a while too. Now its "Sydney". It'll change

- The Chairman Graeme Downie stated last year , after the Grand Final night that the Lions premiership belonged as much to Fitzroy as it did to the Brisbane Bears.

Does he back any of that up with money or resources? 50/50?

The Lions are a new club beginning in 1997, as a result of a merger between the Brisbane Bears and the Fitzroy Lions and therefore elements of both.

Barry, if you still believe that the Lions are really the Bears then the onus is on you to present at least some concrete evidence to support your claims. I'm afraid I don't really see how the NRL experience is evidence, that the Lions are in fact the Bears, as you appear to be claiming.

THis all started with me calling them the bears, not claiming they were the old Brisbane Bears solely.

But some facts to show you that it is mostly Bears, part Lions:
1. They Play and are based in Brisbane. Play at the bears old ground, the bears old city, in the bears old state. {Thats a big one}
2. Most of the premiership side came from the bears.
3. At the time of the merger, quite a few fitzroy players refused to go up there. No Bears players refused.

Fitzroy were as good as dead, if not dead. Every club was picking over the carcass. Brisbane wanted a new nickname (the koala was an embarrasement), a few good players, a new song, and some supporters in Melbourne. They offered the roys a few costemic names and history and got the lot. A bargain.

A lot of fitzroy supporters would have rather their team
1. Stayed in Melbourne and fought the AFL (ala Souths)
2. Merged with a melbourne team so they could at least go to home games.

I very much doubt your claims that the Fitzroy part will be dropped anytime soon. There's too much of the Fitzroy identity in the Brisbane Lions for that to happen...a fact emphasised by the current board over and over again. In fact the present trend is to embrace more of the Fitzroy identity, as myself and Stocka have outlined above.

Time will tell. The fact that you are so touchy over the bears name makes me secretly suspect you think I'm right.

 

[barry]

Originally posted by Mr Ripper
Can't argue with those well-researched facts.

Did I just say "well-researched facts"? Sorry, what I meant to say was supposition and half-bottomed guesswork.

Getting towelled here, Baz.

And let me guess, who do you support Mr Ripper?

 

[Mr Ripper]

Stocka and Roylion, of course!

 

[barry]

Originally posted by Mr Ripper
Stocka and Roylion, of course!

..... and the teddies.

 

[Mr Ripper]

*sigh* I notice you still haven't countered with any facts of your own, Baz, only your own misguided opinions.

None so blind as those who choose not to see (I think that's how that goes).

 

[barry]

Originally posted by Mr Ripper
*sigh* I notice you still haven't countered with any facts of your own, Baz, only your own misguided opinions.

None so blind as those who choose not to see (I think that's how that goes).

The real argument here is whether "bears" is an offensive term.
Purely subjective.
Anything else is just a tangent, which I've answered.

 

[Stocka]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 17 in a row

Originally posted by barry


What does the BB stand for?

And if RoyLion is offended by "bears", surely old Brisbane Bears supporters would be offended by "Roys".
Maybe old nicknames just stick.

Point being, that you were only calling us the 'Bears', rather than 'Roys' and 'Bears' together. However, why got to all the trouble in the first place? Why not just use the name BRISBANE LIONS??

 

[Stocka]

Originally posted by barry
Stocka, we have now weeded out of you that you are first and foremost a Fitzroy supporter and not a Brisbane supporter because you have little knowledge of the day to day queensland issues. (Fair enough, you've never lived there)

Another moronic assumption being levelled there on your part, borry.

Considering a number of contributors have exposed YOU as beingt the one with a lack of knowledge regarding the Brisbane Lions, it's pretty ironic that you seem to think you are in a position to lay that claim to others. Get a sense of perspective borry, you're not an important person here.

I never said at all that I have no knowledge of the issues which face the Lions up north. I don't claim to be an expert on them either, however, at any rate, I don't see how any of this 'proves' whether I am a Brisbane Lions supporter or not! You really must be a dead-set moron if you think my knowledge of NRL affects whether or not I'm a supporter of the Brisbane Lions!

At any rate, what has this got to do with the original discussion?

Originally posted by barry
You support the Lions simply because they are called the lions and because daddy and grand-daddy did too. Not one for making up your own mind I see.

Another moronic assumption. I'm the first person in my entire family to take up football, let alone Fitzroy. In any regard, what does it matter, if people support a club generationally? You really are a dead-set moron, aren't you? You probably think you're funny, well, if levelling moronic assumptions about others, over the internet, and being entirely wrong in those assumptions is the way you get your jollies, little man, then I think that speaks for itself!

At any rate, what has that got to do with the argument? Absolutely nothing, as far as I can ascertain!

Clutching at straws and playing the man AGAIN I see! Geez, I really must have gotten up your nose, hey, borry!

Tell you what borry, if that's the way you play, why don't you go outside, dig a big hole, jump inside, and get someone to cover you up. Don't worry, dinner won't be waiting.

Originally posted by barry
Here's an analogy I heard at the time of the merger which I think sums it up: The AFL had two patients. One interstate who was very sick and in need of a lifesaving heart transplant. Another one locally who was clinically dead and in a coma. The AFL decided to let the local one die so that it could transplant the heart out of it to give life to the sick one. [Heart as in the physical organ, nothing spirital here]. The sick one lived on.

Brisbane have grown from strength to strength since the operation, and spend a lot more time and money in their own market than they ever do in Melbourne.

Well, I'm afraid borry, you'll have to change that view, if you are to rid yourself of misconceptions.

BOTH the Bears and Fitzroy ceased to exist as stand-alone teams in the AFL, so therefore, in the sense of AFL clubs, BOTH died, however, joined to form a NEW, yes read it borry, NEW (N E W, NEW), club - the BRISBANE LIONS.

There was no repackaging, as you suggest, nor an 'operation', nor did the Bears swallow up Fitzroy, as you insinuate. If you think so, provide some FACTUAL basis for these claims, not just your worn out old misconceptions, which frankly, are getting pasted every time you come back with them.

Originally posted by barry
If you can get 3000 old roy supporters for nothing, why not. But if and when they become no.1 code in queensland and have 40,000 members up there, I could easily see them forgetting about the fitzroy connection.
You only have to look at mergers in any other codes in the world to see that. And as I said before you only have to look around the corner at the NRL. Let a little time pass and see what happens.

Once again, where are you factual basings for your speculations? What aspects of REALITY are you basing your assumptions upon?

The Brisbane Lions haven't done 'nothing' as you'd suggest to attract Fitzroy supporters. Take another look at my earlier posting:

If the Brisbane Lions are merely a repackaged Brisbane Bears, then howcome:
* The Brisbane Lions have the name Fitzroy included in the 'club' name?
* What's that FFC alongside the BB doing on the back of the jumper?
* Why is the club's mascot a Lion (in Fitzroy colours) too?
* Why are does the club have a stipulation for 2 Victorian directors of the club?
* Why is the Fitzroy Past Players Association merged with that of the Bears, and Brisbane Lions?
* Why do people commonly recognise that Fitzroy is represented in the Brisbane Lions?
* Why are Fitzroy's club legends honoured in the club's hall of fame?
* Why does the club hold function such as the 'Fitzroy Team of Our Century'?
* Why do the Lions receive support of up to 10,000 supporters at Melbourne games and why are there 3000 Victorian members of a club, which according to you, supposedly doesn't cater for them?

Your view just doesn't quite add up, in light of the FACTS, now does it, borry?? Funny that.

Originally posted by barry
I think you are in the minority of Brisbane supporters who take offence to light hearted calling of the team "bears", but I could understand if you were in the majority of roy supporters who felt that way. Luckily there arent many of you.

So you're an expert now, on the Brisbane Lions, and the views of the club's supporters? Considering so far, you've displayed an appauling lack of knowledge of what the Brisbane Lions are even about as a club, I'd suggest you'd have very little idea of what

Luckily not many people share your moronic views, might I add.

 

[Stocka]

In all of this, I'm surprised, that even given the fool that borry obviously is, that he is STILL head-strong on arguing his point of view!

I mean, do we see the mass hordes coming in to agree with him? Even one, perhaps? Rather, I think we see people in total disagreement with him. Funny that.

Likewise, while borry might claim that anything posted which doesn't concur with his views is 'biased' or 'subjective', I'd suggest that rather, it is his manipulative interpretation of the facts only serves his own similarly biased and subjective views (which also happen to be biggotted, misconceived, ill-informed, and utterly un-Australian).

I mean, considering borry isn't even a Brisbane Lions supporter, who does he think he is, commenting as if he were some sort of expert, even above genuine Brisbane Lions' supporters, regarding issues of their club?!

Likewise, considering it's been proven so often in this thread, that borry obviously has some major misconceptions regarding the Brisbane Lions, it's amazing the he is so willing to expose this fact, by arguing againt people who obviously know more about the subject matter than he does.

Like a Yarra River Blackfish who has somehow found itself in Bass Straight, borry certainly is out of his depth!

Perhaps life would be easier for borry, if he just stuck to the peace and quiet of the Swans board. You can hear the masses now, as if watching some disasterous soap on channel 10, where the lead character is constantly doomed to failure, despite his best endeavours to overcome his hopeless plight:

"Give up, borry, you moron."

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by barry

Brisbanes old song was a joke. A win for the bears.

Bears? I don't see any Bears. Your statement is a matter of opinion. I believe some former Bears supporters didn't see it that way at all. Still it's difficult to beat the La Marseilles.

Originally posted by barry

A name based on the mascot??

Same coterie group. They weren't disbanded and then reformed, based on the name.

Originally posted by barry

A nice pick up for the Bears, something crows and coasters would love

A nice pick up for the 'Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club' I agree. Impossible if Jonathan Brown's father hadn't played 51 senior games for Fitzroy.

Originally posted by barry

Paul Roos the ex-fitzroy player who deserted ship. (thankfully to sydney)
Got any unbiased quotes?

I would have thought that Paul Roos leaving Fitzroy for the Swans, in the circumstances that he did would have meant that this was relatively unbiased. The vast majority of former Fitzroy players beleive that there's plenty of Fitzroy in the Brisbane Lions....including Kevin Murray, Norm Brown, Leon Harris, Mick Conlan, Paul Roos, Gary Pert and the list goes on.

Originally posted by barry

Hollingworth was the no1. ticket holder.....thats the calibre.
Name the other patrons?

For what purpose?

Originally posted by barry

Good old Roger

Good old Kevin.

Originally posted by barry

Cosmetic

Your opinion. One I don't share. I take it you believe that Sydney's celebration of South Melbourne's history is only cosmetic as well.

Originally posted by barry

Large? As large as the Brisbane operations?

Well having been to both the Brisbane Lions social club in Brisbane and the Manningham on a number of occasions, I'd have to say at the moment they're roughly the same.

Originally posted by barry

Whore-Lacy sold you out. See my Souths example

Point is Barry, you wouldn't know. I'm yet to see any real evidence from you that you actually know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should give us all some advice on what the Fitzroy board should have done in the circumstances. Remember its an offence to cntinue trading while insolvent. If you knew anything about Fitzroy in the mid-1990's you would realise that Fitzroy's situation was completely different to South Sydney's.

Originally posted by barry

Cosmetic

Cosmetic? How? Long time Fitzroy supporters and members who have made contributions to the Fitzroy club are still being made life members. What about Bears life members? Cosmetic too? What about South Melbourne life members who are now Sydney life members? Oh, that's right. South Melbourne are the same club as Sydney, even though they moved cities as well.

Originally posted by barry

Until the money runs out.

Yeah whatever.

Originally posted by barry

Free history and premierships... great

Did you actually read what I wrote? 1997. Where's the free history and premierships?

Originally posted by barry

Does that mean things arent as rosey as you paint?

At the Lions' most things are rosy. Reigning premiers, reigning Brownlow Medallist, rising Victorian membership. We look set to set a new membership record this year as well. The $800,000 loss was a little setback, but the Lions are budgeting for a significant profit on the basis of the premiership for 2001-02.

Originally posted by barry

THat will change. They used to only show "Swans" on scoreboards for a while too. Now its "Sydney". It'll change

Yes, the Swans have had some problems coming to terms with their identity over the years since they left Melbourne as well. At one point they wanted to ditch the red and White and adopt the Two Blues colours of NSW. It's still referred to as "Brisbane" in Brisbane.

Originally posted by barry

Does he back any of that up with money or resources? 50/50?

What on earth are you talking about? I said before the Fitzroy Reds and Fitzroy Juniors are sponsored by the club.

Originally posted by barry

THis all started with me calling them the bears, not claiming they were the old Brisbane Bears solely.

One follows from the other. I don't call the Brisbane Lions, the Maroons or the Roys, do I? I imagine that would be insulting to former Bears fans.....that is those currently supporting the Brisbane Lions.

Originally posted by barry

But some facts to show you that it is mostly Bears, part Lions:
1. They Play and are based in Brisbane. Play at the bears old ground, the bears old city, in the bears old state. {Thats a big one}

Well they have to play somewhere. If two clubs merge and one is a one team club in a city of 1.5 million people and the other shares a city or state with 10 other clubs, has no facilities of its own etc etc., why wouldn't they move to Brisbane. In compensation the Bears identity was largely replaced by that of Fitzroy. Not that different to South Melbourne moving to Sydney. Parts of Fitzroy moved to Brisbane and merged with the Bears.

Originally posted by barry

2. Most of the premiership side came from the bears.

12 came from the Bears (and I include Alistair Lynch in that number). That's not "MOST". That's under half.... Three of the side had played with Fitzroy. Jonathon Brown was taken under the father-son rule from Fitzroy while Luke Power was a born and bred Fitzroy supporter drafted by the Brisbane Lions. So you could argue that five players have important Fitzroy connections.

Why is this surprising anyway? The Bears finished third in 1996, Fitzroy 16th. If Fitzroy had merged with North there would have been no more than roughly eight players taken from Fitzroy anyway. This is supposed to be evidence?

Originally posted by barry

3. At the time of the merger, quite a few fitzroy players refused to go up there. No Bears players refused.

Barry, you're just making this up now. Names?

The only Fitzroy player who didn't want to go to Brisbane was Matthew Primus, NOT because he was aggrieved at what had happened to Fitzroy, but because he didn't think he would get many games, behind Matthew Clarke and Clark Keating. The Lions on-traded him to Port Adelaide.

Originally posted by barry

Fitzroy were as good as dead, if not dead. Every club was picking over the carcass. Brisbane wanted a new nickname (the koala was an embarrasement), a few good players, a new song, and some supporters in Melbourne. They offered the roys a few costemic names and history and got the lot. A bargain.

What a resurrection it's been then Barry! How fitting we're discussing this just after Easter. The Fitzroy Football Club is still alive and well and debt-free in Melbourne. They work to promote football in Melbourne's northern suburbs and to represent and advocate for the Victorian supporters of the Brisbane Lions.

Now you're probably going to ask, 'how can this be?', when you are arguing that Fitzroy merged with Brisbane. If you have to ask, Barry, then it just goes to show you know very little of the circumstances of the merger.

Your statement above is incorrect. Fitzroy was in control of its destiny until the administrator was appointed. Explain how every club was picking over its carcass. You mean they picked up some players from Fitzroy after the merger.

Originally posted by barry

A lot of fitzroy supporters would have rather their team
1. Stayed in Melbourne and fought the AFL (ala Souths)
2. Merged with a melbourne team so they could at least go to home games.

Yes? And your point is? That's well known.
1. Impossible. Fitzroy did not have the money to take the AFL to court and nor did have the latent support base that Souths apparently do. South have over 22,000 members this year don't they? Most Fitzroy supporters were resigned to a merger of some sort. Most of us just hoped there would be a sizeable Fitzroy representation in the new club
2. Yes, probably. Many did want to merge with a Melbourne based club.
However Lions supporters go to six-seven home games each year. Personally I'm looking forward to seeing the premiership flag and the premiership cup at Colonial Round 4 against the Western Bulldogs. No doubt a lot of old Royboys (past players, past officials, past members and supporters) will be there.

Originally posted by barry

Time will tell. The fact that you are so touchy over the bears name makes me secretly suspect you think I'm right.

Sorry to disillusion you Barry. I don't think that at all. The Bears finished in 1996. That's what we're pointing out to you and for some reason you are finding this hard to come to terms with. However underneath it all you realise that. That must be why you went from the Bears to the Swans...as your club no longer competed in the AFL in its own right.

I'm the same. I went from Fitzroy to the Brisbane Lions...which incorporated some of my old club.

If you want to go on calling them the Bears...go for your life. If it gives you some gratification, then so be it. You're wrong of course...and as loyal members of the Brisbane Lions we felt morally obliged to point that out. You know the old saying..."you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

But still I suppose you still call the AFL Port Adelaide the Magpies.

 

[InTheBack!]

while youse are all arguin & fitin & kickin the crap outa each ofer the mighty LIONS are marching on & on.

cheers!!

 

[InTheBack!]

and on & on & on & on


leaving all the denialists in their wake.

 

[barry]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 17 in a row

Originally posted by Stocka


Point being, that you were only calling us the 'Bears', rather than 'Roys' and 'Bears' together. However, why got to all the trouble in the first place? Why not just use the name BRISBANE LIONS??

Finally I think we can now conclude this discussion with me declared an easy winner

The BB-FFC on the back of the jumper includes the words "Bears", therefore it is still an acceptable term in the Brisbane Lions structure.
It also includes Fitzroy, and therefore the shortened "roys".
So, if its good enough for one, its good enough for the other.

So either you are a free thinker and you can call them Roys, Lions, Bears, Brissy, in any order you like. Much like RoyLion does in this group. (see first sylable of his name)

Or, you are Stocka who wont allow "bears" or "roys" on their own, and insists everyone call them by the official AFL name "Brisbane Lions". With sub-clauses that you can call them "Brisbane" in qld, and "Lions" elsewhere.

Glad we have finally got to the end of this.
Thanks for your time.

 

[Roylion]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 17 in a row

Originally posted by barry


Finally I think we can now conclude this discussion with me declared an easy winner

Whatever you reckon Barry. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story will you? Now are you ever going to refute anything I've said with cold hard facts rather than suppostion and opinion, as you have in the past..or at least respond specifically to the arguments I've put forward to counter your points...which to date in this discussion have been few and far between.

Originally posted by barry

The BB-FFC on the back of the jumper includes the words "Bears", therefore it is still an acceptable term in the Brisbane Lions structure.
It also includes Fitzroy, and therefore the shortened "roys".
So, if its good enough for one, its good enough for the other.

The point is Barry, is that we don't call them the Roys. The BB-FFC acknowledges our origins and we come from and that's all.

Originally posted by barry
So either you are a free thinker and you can call them Roys, Lions, Bears, Brissy, in any order you like. Much like RoyLion does in this group. (see first sylable of his name)

I don't call the Brisbane Lions the Roys. My monicker simply tells people that I support the Brisbane Lions and I come from the Fitzroy side of the family. That's it. I have never called the Brisbane Lions...the Roys.

Originally posted by barry

Or, you are Stocka who wont allow "bears" or "roys" on their own, and insists everyone call them by the official AFL name "Brisbane Lions". With sub-clauses that you can call them "Brisbane" in qld, and "Lions" elsewhere.

As I said call them what you like, but just remember a great many Brisbane Lions supporters dislike the name and regard i as antagonistic. So either expect some flak from them or be ignored.

Originally posted by barry

Glad we have finally got to the end of this.
Thanks for your time.

I'm sure you are. Anytime you want to refute my arguments with specific evidence, please do so. I look forward to reading it.