18 minute quarters

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hawkman

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
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I'm actually fine with the standard 30 second break to get an ad in to pay for things. It takes about that long anyway so may as well standardise it.

The one minute break between goals that they've been using this year is horrendous and would be the first thing to go.
I think it was 45 seconds before this season. Definitely wasn't 30
 

Munga

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 2, 2003
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Why? Why the constant desire to screw with the core of the game? Why not play with three balls on a rectangular field? Why not remove all centre bounces and just have the umpire promote the latest sponsors, then give the ball to the player who can say the quickest, "Choose the cheesy cheese that triple cheese lovers choose when they choose the cheese, cheese, cheese in the triple cheese at McDonalds"? The AFL needs money? Burned the cash with GC and GWS and stadia and now crying poor? Slowly selling away the soul of the game, bit by bit, year by year, week by week!

Shorter quarters, ridiculous. The players aren't tired enough and covering the ground with ease making most matches this year eye-sores. I can barely watch the game with eyes open, and they want more sponsors? The mentality is all backwards.
 

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NoobPie

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2016
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Gil is the Milton Friedman of AFL. Naomi Klein should write a book about his tenure. She could call it The Cock Doctrine.

How is Gil, a sports administrator, like a libertarian / monetarist academic economist?

The idea of "never letting a good crisis go to waste" is a pretty much ideologically neutral concept across any reform minded leaders
 

juss

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Feb 23, 2009
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no sh*t, the AFL broadcasters want it and I reckon so do the players as a majority. I predicted from the start the AFL would use strong TV ratings as the reason and we'd never go back to 20 min quarters.
 

FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
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I can't understand the reason for this other than Ch7 wanting more ads in the lengthened breaks without the telecast going longer.

If the payoff is more games in the same season length, then I'll pass.

The football during this so called 'festival of football' has been dire for the most part. Teams held to no goal quarters or 1 goal quarters quite regularly. Teams able to apply high pressure all quarter and some teams clearly dead on their feet coming off 4 and 5 day breaks regularly.
It has nothing to do with the 'game going to long' - hell, even this year tv stations are putting in an extra ad each goal. Its all about TV stations getting more ads in - so as usual with the AFL its all about the might $$$$ and nothing else (please the TV stations - get more money in the TV deal)

This year was always going to be used by the AFL to introduce things they would have copped backlash for otherwise - shorter qtrs, night grand final are 2 examples.

Lets use a 20 goal game as an example - each additional ad is 30 sec, so thats an extra 10mins in ads we watch. If we have 18 minute quarters, thats 8 mins of football we save + time on (1 min a qtr) - thats 12 mins a game we save on less football. 12mins less 10mins we save 2 mins a game - im glad ill be home 2 mins earlier......

It has nothing to do with less football as people dont wnt to sit through 20min qtrs, all for tv networks.
 

RichLeMonde

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Sep 26, 2019
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The idea of "never letting a good crisis go to waste" is a pretty much ideologically neutral concept across any reform minded leaders
It's actually not. It is a thoroughly elaborated strategy developed by the Chicago School (neoliberal) economists who worked directly with the US intelligence community. Their crowning moment in applying this logic was the introduction of radical neoliberal economic reforms in the wake of the Pinochet coup in Chile. Friedman advised on this directly, even flying over to Chile to help on the ground.
How is Gil, a sports administrator, like a libertarian / monetarist academic economist?
Because Gil is using Covid, as Friedman would have advised, to ram through changes that have purely economic motive (night grand final, shorter quarters), while everyone is in a state of shock and willing to accept change they otherwise wouldn't.
 

btdg

Premiership Player
Oct 7, 2005
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One thing I've noticed about the shortened quarters is how much difference an open game is vs a congested/stoppage one. It hadn't really occurred to me before but every stoppage the clock runs 20-30 seconds.

Carlton have been an odd team this year because we've really changed style match to match to respond to our opponent and so this has really stood out more. Games vs Bulldogs and Suns - we opened out completely with very few stoppages. The game felt basically normal length. In other games - the Freo one really stood out in the wet, the game felt like it finished and it was half time (in that match the final score was 40-36).
 

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D-N-R

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Apr 4, 2005
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It has nothing to do with the 'game going to long' - hell, even this year tv stations are putting in an extra ad each goal. Its all about TV stations getting more ads in - so as usual with the AFL its all about the might $$$$ and nothing else (please the TV stations - get more money in the TV deal)

This year was always going to be used by the AFL to introduce things they would have copped backlash for otherwise - shorter qtrs, night grand final are 2 examples.

Lets use a 20 goal game as an example - each additional ad is 30 sec, so thats an extra 10mins in ads we watch. If we have 18 minute quarters, thats 8 mins of football we save + time on (1 min a qtr) - thats 12 mins a game we save on less football. 12mins less 10mins we save 2 mins a game - im glad ill be home 2 mins earlier......

It has nothing to do with less football as people dont wnt to sit through 20min qtrs, all for tv networks.
I think we agree on this, but maybe I didn't make it clear. They have shortened the game but increased the breaks ie. less football, more ad time, without changing the overall broadcast length.

If this is the reason, then they have failed in the respect that the shortened quarters has lead to fewer goals - and dramatically so in many cases.
 

flamethrower

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 14, 2003
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We should go back to 25 minutes with the clock only stopping for goals, more interesting games would go longer, worse games would be over quicker.
Exactly right - it is the constant starting and stopping the clock that makes the games last so long. Time on should only be added between goals and for serious injuries. At stoppages and boundary throw ins, the ump should just grab the ball and throw it up/in immediately.
 

FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
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I think we agree on this, but maybe I didn't make it clear. They have shortened the game but increased the breaks ie. less football, more ad time, without changing the overall broadcast length.

If this is the reason, then they have failed in the respect that the shortened quarters has lead to fewer goals - and dramatically so in many cases.
I wasnt arguing with you, we are in agreeance. Just quoted you to back up my thoughts.
 

Elite Master

Brownlow Medallist
May 20, 2011
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No one was complaining about the length of quarters pre-COVID and the game has gone to utter sh*t with shorter quarters.

Why does anyone think this change is actually required?
Because wanting shorter quarters is trendy and they think just because the USA are doing it with NFL then that means we have to follow otherwise we will be 'left behind'. In other words people want to appear 'smart'.
 

Thetrader15

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 16, 2015
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Was asked why no return to 20 mins for finals gave no reason but said it will stay at 16 mins for finals
I don't think you should change the rules mid season, so I'm ok with it being 16 for the finals.

Next year however, what's the point of reducing it, you're just short changing fans, sponsors, etc? Will we see a 10% reduction in our membership fees aligned with this?

We've seen this year that the shorter the game, the lower the scores and the more congestion there is as players have extra energy for defence. Make the game longer if you want the game to be more open, but be aware that because you have too many teams, the gap between the best and worse is large, so there will be more blowouts.
 

Thetrader15

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 16, 2015
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Because wanting shorter quarters is trendy and they think just because the USA are doing it with NFL then that means we have to follow otherwise we will be 'left behind'. In other words people want to appear 'smart'.
May be they should bring back AFLX, that was really short and was loved by the fans...oh wait...
 

NoobPie

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2016
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It's actually not. It is a thoroughly elaborated strategy developed by the Chicago School (neoliberal) economists who worked directly with the US intelligence community. Their crowning moment in applying this logic was the introduction of radical neoliberal economic reforms in the wake of the Pinochet coup in Chile. Friedman advised on this directly, even flying over to Chile to help on the ground.
The wiki link you sent about "shock therapy_economics" is nonsense. There is no such concept in economics.

The page ties together a range of concepts and events into a single concept but of the economists that have been identified as proponents

1) Milton Friedman, is a monetarist / libertarian economist whose ideas did indeed form a significant part of the ideological foundation of the political paradigm called neoliberalism. Someone has amended the page to note that some critique from the cato institute (a libertarian think tank) says that Friedman was take out of context in the attribution of "shock therapy"

2) Jeffrey Sachs is a new-Keynesian macro-economist who....

"says he never picked the term "shock therapy", does not much like it, and asserts that the term "was something that was overlaid by journalism and public discussion" and that the term "sounds a lot more painful in a way than what it is". Sachs' ideas on what has been referred by non-economists as "shock therapy" were based on studying historic periods of monetary and economic crisis and noting that a decisive stroke could end monetary chaos, often in a day"
The page then goes on to list of overall incoherent set of examples of essentially radical economic reform of very disparate types in a range of contexts (eg post war reconstruction, post communism, hyperinflation)

and then provides a "theory section" which is basically un-referenced pseudo-economics



Because Gil is using Covid, as Friedman would have advised, to ram through changes that have purely economic motive (night grand final, shorter quarters), while everyone is in a state of shock and willing to accept change they otherwise wouldn't.
I suspect it is true that the AFL will seek to make changes it has wanted to previously because the COVID crises gives it the opportunity to do so in what it thinks is the best interest of the game. You can make arguments that the AFL is prone to undervaluing certain non-monetisable elements of the game in its decision making but to call it a "purely economic motive" is a particularly dull comment and to conflate it with Friemanite neoliberalism is beyond dull
 

falcons2

All Australian
Feb 19, 2009
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As much as I hate it, 2021 will still be compromised by COVID. They will keep the 60 seconds after goals to allow personalised drink bottles to be delivered etc. That will drive the 18 minute time.
 

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