2005 Draft Day...............

[Johnson#26]

Stanley regularly posted 30+ touches in the VFL. Finding the ball will never, ever be a problem for him, and he'll only improve in that capacity at AFL level. Give him early matches and game time, and he should prosper.

 

[JohnD]

Pendlebury was the best thing you did in 2005. That was inspired drafting. I carefully watched Pendlebury in the Hawks/Collingwood floggings of 2008. Despite spending far too short periods of time on the ball, Pendlebury did some stuff against quality opposition in there that reeked of class. There might have been a couple of questions asked of Pendlebury so far (none of which I buy into given his age and physical development) but his poise and time in close quarters is very very good.

The Thomas-Ellis comparison is interesting. They have been developed in an entirely different fashion ... Thomas getting a lot more freedom and space for creativity, and Ellis being 'schooled' in a far more traditional sense.

Accordingly, they will end up completely different midfield types if indeed Thomas every really becomes a genuine midfielder. I don't say that to be critical of him, it's just I don't think playing his role is the way that a genuine midfielder gets developed. Therefore I think MM has a different long-term goal in mind.

Whilst acknowledging my Hawks bias, I must say that Ellis is a very exciting prospect. For a bloke built like a toothpick and carrying injury for almost all of his games so far, he's suicidal with his commitment to the contest. Doesn't know how to take a short step. Sometimes with skinny kids, you wish they'd protect themselves ... choose their battles, if you like. Not learn to be soft, but just to recognise there's some contests they shouldn't really put their head over. Ellis knows none of that. Whilst it's thrilling to watch, it's Ellis' courage that'll be the reason why he doesn't make it to 200 games (should that happen).

We love him. Already plays like a senior player and has had a year less in development terms to his 2005 cohort. Has certainly shown why many pundits had him down for pick 2. Will only get better too.

 

[Optimax]

the obsession continues

you mention ellis' courage and skim over thomas' thomas has also turned games himself including finals, ellis gave up the ball in the GF until his team mates took control.

 

[FIGJAM]

Personally, I was too damn drunk to remember this year's Granny, but I do remember Geelong spraying it going forward. The subsequent rebound and linking through Ellis must have played a part in his high numbers.

Not saying he didn't have a good game, but using it as a benchmark isn't exactly sensible.

 

[duds0101]

the obsession continues

you mention ellis' courage and skim over thomas' thomas has also turned games himself including finals, ellis gave up the ball in the GF until his team mates took control.

Well summed up.

He wasn't the best. That said though he isn't that bad.

 

[loki04]

Switch on the GF Replay on Youtube & you will see why. Dave, no need for the capital letter on the Why.

3rd quarter ellis did 2 critical turn overs that luckily Geelong missed if they didn't people would be calling him a hack.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

^^^ Yep - One of them was a serious shocker that would have been Luke Ablett/Ben Cousins stuff if Geelong could have capitalised, IIRC.

 

[JohnD]

the obsession continues

You got a problem with sensible footballing analysis on this board or something ?

Ellis was top 5 in the grand final. Sure, there was a stack of pressure on in that game. He, amongst others, missed targets. Selwood missed five in a row, but nobody holds it against him given the nature of the match.

 

[JohnD]

3rd quarter ellis did 2 critical turn overs that luckily Geelong missed if they didn't people would be calling him a hack.

Only if they don't know anything about football.

 

[JohnD]

Priority 1 Marc Murphy
Priority 2 Dale Thomas
Priority 3 Xavier Ellis
1 4 Josh Kennedy
1 5 Scott Pendlebury
1 6 Beau Dowler
1 7 Patrick Ryder
1 8 JON
1 9 Mitchell Clark
1 10 Marcus Drum
1 11 Shaun Higgins
1 12 Nathan Jones
1 13 Shannon Hurn
1 14 Grant Birchall
1 15 Travis Varcoe
1 16 Richard Douglas
1 17 Darren Pfeiffer
1 18 Max Bailey
1 19 Courtenay Dempsey

Not exactly a star-studded first round, but there's some good'uns in that list.

All cr@p aside, I reckon Murphy was the right pick at 1.
Birchall looks to be the value, given his selection at 14.
A couple of high profile disappointments too, given the wraps.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Okay, next post here that doesn't discuss the 2005 draft gets carded, the personal attacks while witty are completely off-topic.

 

[JohnD]

Birchall definately the value.

 

[SteeleAt11]

Birchall definately the value.

You said that already, the thread is about Thomas vs Ellis

 

[JohnD]

Ellis > Thomas.

Obviously I agree, and I reckon it'll be self-evident by the 100 game mark.

Hawks fans won't be able to rub it in too much though, 'cos we both overlooked Pendlebury with our first selections and he could, with a tank and some bulk, be the best of the draft.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Oakleigh-Nicholls the biggest clanger, IMHO, but hard to be too hopeful for Dowler, and Kennedy a big reach at #4.

 

[Dave The Man]

Oakleigh-Nicholls the biggest clanger, IMHO, but hard to be too hopeful for Dowler, and Kennedy a big reach at #4.

I thought Kennedy was the Highly Rated as the best KPP in the Draft and you know the need for KPP at Carlton

 

[JohnD]

Dowler was a massive risk ... as was Muston, given their serious injuries. Birchall and Bailey were supposed to be the 'playing it safe' picks, and then Bailey goes and does a knee after one AFL game.

Now there's three high Hawks' draft picks from the 2005 draft with huge injury clouds over them and fans are asking "how much better could we already be by taking a punt on one injured player instead of two?".

It could have meant Higgins on the list instead. I rate him.

FWIW though, I read a training report from the Hawks' session today that had Dowler and Muston both training well. Dowler hitting packs on the lead and Muston kicking 55m bombs off both feet. If just one of them makes it back from their terrible injury we'll be a much stronger list because of it.

Bailey is the one I've got my fingers crossed for the most. At 206cm or so, he's got ruck talent and a footy brain and is the obvious #1 ruck at Hawthorn for the future. His knees are cactus though, apparently, and they've gotta carry a mighty big unit around. If he makes it, we'll have ruck depth to burn and trade bait by way of a premiership ruckman with behavioural issues.

 

[Lupton Warchild Pittman]

Hawks fans won't be able to rub it in too much though, 'cos we both overlooked Pendlebury with our first selections and he could, with a tank and some bulk, be the best of the draft.

From what I can remember, Hawthorn stated that it would have taken Thomas at 3 if he was available.

I would have preferred Ellis & Pendlebury V Thomas & Pendlebury.

 

[JohnD]

From what I can remember, Hawthorn stated that it would have taken Thomas at 3 if he was available.

I would have preferred Ellis & Pendlebury V Thomas & Pendlebury.

You're correct.

The Hawks recruiting team is on record saying that they knew Murphy was going at 1 and fully expected Ellis to go at 2. Accordingly they were planning to take Thomas at 3.

 

[Skade]

^^ Not a truer word spoken.

 

[JohnD]

At least I'm here talking about football.

Perhaps a sub-forum could be provided on the Pies Board where obsessed twits can gather together to talk about JohnD.

 

[jerry springer]

First time ive seen JohnD actually make some valid comments

im a fan of Dale and have no regrets,however Ellis played very well in the biggest game of all,and that will just propell him to greater heights.

he has one up on 90% of Collingwood players who seem to leave their worst for Grand final day and embarass the club,jumper and the fans

 

[JohnD]

First time ive seen JohnD actually make some valid comments

Thanks ... sort of.

I always make valid comments, it's just that sometimes people don't want to hear it.

FWIW I am always 100% prepared to fully discuss the issues that I raise and the comments that I make. It is a shame, however, that some people think that you can simply attack a poster rather than rationally discuss or debate the matter for disagreement. Of course, it's usually because there is no rational argument and therefore the personal attack is the only option available.

 

[Frankie23]

If i did the top 5 again on their career so far it would go...

1. Murphy
2. Pendlebury
3. Thomas
4. Ellis
5. Birchall

 

[JohnD]

Yeah, Murphy would still get pick 1 IMO too.

My money would be on Pendlebury to be the highest rated at the end of their careers though, all things being equal.

The fact that we're talking about Ellis in comparison with those other four speaks volumes for him given he's been in the system a year less. He's got stacks of development left in him, but I rate Pendlebury's disposal more highly.

I'm unsure how much more improvement Birchall has in him. He's a hard one to judge because he plays in a side with a gameplan that suits him perfectly and he has the advantage of playing in a very good side with a lot of experience and ability around him. Is very one sided too ... wish he'd get a right foot.