Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
Says possibly the most childish & certainly the most single-tracked troll on these boards.
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Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
North don't have many talls or mids, but have good depth in rucks. Pies have good talls & mids but no ruck depth.
Any comparison where the reigning premiers would find it easier to fit player X into their side than mid-table sides like us/north is pretty deeply flawed.
That's a dumb way to look at it though. Not every side has equal depth.
North don't have many talls or mids, but have good depth in rucks. Pies have good talls & mids but no ruck depth.
Any comparison where the reigning premiers would find it easier to fit player X into their side than mid-table sides like us/north is pretty deeply flawed.
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Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
You really need Williams to get a game soon or create a new log on name. Petrie is $1.20 to kick more goals and if that happens you will end up banned for life. Childish or funny?
Ryder had more Dreamteam points than Sandilands on the weekend. Ryder must be the best ruck man in the comp - hooray for dream team points
You really need Williams to get a game soon or create a new log on name. Petrie is $1.20 to kick more goals and if that happens you will end up banned for life. Childish or funny?
Ryder had more Dreamteam points than Sandilands on the weekend. Ryder must be the best ruck man in the comp - hooray for dream team points
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Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
If Hille went down with injury though, I'd be picking Goldstein as Essendon's #1 ruck, ahead of Ryder, any day of the week.
Maybe.. but Ryder wouldn't be the player keeping him out - David Hille would be. Hille is a better 1st ruck than Goldstein, no doubt about it. Ryder offers more flexibility around the field and, under the current substitute rules, is thus a better candidate for 2nd ruck.
If Hille went down with injury though, I'd be picking Goldstein as Essendon's #1 ruck, ahead of Ryder, any day of the week.
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
0 - 0
Didn't see the 2nd half of the Freo game so can't really compare, but couple of goals, plenty of marks, couple of hitouts for Paddy = good game. Pretty fair he got a decent rating I would've thought, he was easily in the best couple of bigs on the ground.
Predictions are nice, aren't they?
0 - 0
They're not everything by any means but they are something. Complete guns don't get 0s, complete spuds don't get 100s.Ryder had more Dreamteam points than Sandilands on the weekend. Ryder must be the best ruck man in the comp - hooray for dream team points
Didn't see the 2nd half of the Freo game so can't really compare, but couple of goals, plenty of marks, couple of hitouts for Paddy = good game. Pretty fair he got a decent rating I would've thought, he was easily in the best couple of bigs on the ground.
Smyth94
Norm Smith Medallist
Wizard
Brownlow Medallist
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
I would too, but thats not a slap at Ryder more a compliment to Goldstein.
Ryder isn't your every day out and out ruckman like Goldstein is, IMO Ryder is to versatile to restrict him to being a number one ruckman. Hes the perfect back up ruck/mr fixit type.
Goldstein is seriously talented, hes going to go a long way with his footy.
I would too, but thats not a slap at Ryder more a compliment to Goldstein.
Ryder isn't your every day out and out ruckman like Goldstein is, IMO Ryder is to versatile to restrict him to being a number one ruckman. Hes the perfect back up ruck/mr fixit type.
Goldstein is seriously talented, hes going to go a long way with his footy.
Smyth94
Norm Smith Medallist
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
What makes you say that? Is it because he can also play KPF? Look past Ryder's versatility - he is a ruckman first and foremost.
I just wanted a bit of objective analysis - not some baseless statements. I get it though - Ryder would be more valueable spending time as a KPF/2nd ruck - I agree.
It's just that I get the feeling that because Ryder is also capable of playing KPF, his actual ruckwork gets underrated - for example, he is a far better tap ruckman than Hille, but as he is more important spending time as a KPF - Hille gets the #1 mantle.
What makes you say that? Is it because he can also play KPF? Look past Ryder's versatility - he is a ruckman first and foremost.
I just wanted a bit of objective analysis - not some baseless statements. I get it though - Ryder would be more valueable spending time as a KPF/2nd ruck - I agree.
It's just that I get the feeling that because Ryder is also capable of playing KPF, his actual ruckwork gets underrated - for example, he is a far better tap ruckman than Hille, but as he is more important spending time as a KPF - Hille gets the #1 mantle.
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Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
What?
I started this debate, and I'll stick by my comments.
It's not as if the guys I said I'd take before him stunk it up on the weekend either.
Swallow had 26 disposals (15 contested), 7 clearances, 6 tackles and 6 I50's.
Pendlebury and Murphy both had huge games too.
I'd still take the 4 midfielders ahead of him, regardless of one game.
What?
I started this debate, and I'll stick by my comments.
It's not as if the guys I said I'd take before him stunk it up on the weekend either.
Swallow had 26 disposals (15 contested), 7 clearances, 6 tackles and 6 I50's.
Pendlebury and Murphy both had huge games too.
I'd still take the 4 midfielders ahead of him, regardless of one game.
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Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
love the way u selectively state that hansen has only played 11 games as a kpf in relation to the bags of goals he has kicked, yet fail to give ryder the same treatment.
why is that?
love the way u selectively state that hansen has only played 11 games as a kpf in relation to the bags of goals he has kicked, yet fail to give ryder the same treatment.
why is that?
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
Very effective forward, pretty good in the ruck and took some good marks around the ground.
Is that sarcastic?Oh christ, did Ryder have a good game on the weekend?
Very effective forward, pretty good in the ruck and took some good marks around the ground.
Wizard
Brownlow Medallist
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
He IMO just doesn't have the physicality and the physique to be a 22 - 25 game a year ruckman. His athleticism no doubt is amazing, but as the say the big guys don't get any smaller as the game goes on - while Paddy is sure to tire as the games go on, so his big advantage is dwindled as games drag on if he spends huge periods rucking.
Goldstein has 4cm and 6kgs over him at the moment and i'd think the gap in weight will increase as their careers move on, this too me is a big thing.
A guy of Ryders stature would really start to struggle more if he had to play four qtrs with a guy like Sandilands/Cox/Jamar leaning on him and pushing him around all day.
Just my opinion, others obviously vary.
He IMO just doesn't have the physicality and the physique to be a 22 - 25 game a year ruckman. His athleticism no doubt is amazing, but as the say the big guys don't get any smaller as the game goes on - while Paddy is sure to tire as the games go on, so his big advantage is dwindled as games drag on if he spends huge periods rucking.
Goldstein has 4cm and 6kgs over him at the moment and i'd think the gap in weight will increase as their careers move on, this too me is a big thing.
A guy of Ryders stature would really start to struggle more if he had to play four qtrs with a guy like Sandilands/Cox/Jamar leaning on him and pushing him around all day.
Just my opinion, others obviously vary.
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
Wasn't a comment directed at you. But rather the guy who came out with,
As you said, the midfielders you list had good weekends too. But I value a good flexible player like Ryder ahead of midfielders, as midfielders are more common.
And I absolutely value Ryder ahead of players like Clark and Warnock.
Wasn't a comment directed at you. But rather the guy who came out with,
As you said, the midfielders you list had good weekends too. But I value a good flexible player like Ryder ahead of midfielders, as midfielders are more common.
And I absolutely value Ryder ahead of players like Clark and Warnock.
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
He's played nigh-on 20 in the ruck the last 2 years, and rarely missed since his first year.
Jamar's managed 20 games in a year twice in 8 years. Goldstein never has (albeit only established himself last year).
How many games have huge units like Rehn, McIntosh, Primus, Gardiner missed - lots.
You might think a lighter built guy like Goodes or Ryder would get worn down more but both of them have been more durable than heavier contemporaries.
Not that many ruckmen avoid serious injuries completely. Bigger they are, harder they fall as the saying goes.
Does it have an impact at the centre bounces - a little. Does his weight (and height) count against him in the pitched ruck battles - yes. He will never be the best ruck in the league.
The question is, does he do more through pace, athleticism and skill around the ground to counteract that - IMHO, yes.
Not sure.
He's played nigh-on 20 in the ruck the last 2 years, and rarely missed since his first year.
Jamar's managed 20 games in a year twice in 8 years. Goldstein never has (albeit only established himself last year).
How many games have huge units like Rehn, McIntosh, Primus, Gardiner missed - lots.
You might think a lighter built guy like Goodes or Ryder would get worn down more but both of them have been more durable than heavier contemporaries.
Not that many ruckmen avoid serious injuries completely. Bigger they are, harder they fall as the saying goes.
Does it have an impact at the centre bounces - a little. Does his weight (and height) count against him in the pitched ruck battles - yes. He will never be the best ruck in the league.
The question is, does he do more through pace, athleticism and skill around the ground to counteract that - IMHO, yes.
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
He's not the best centre-bounce ruck, but his tap work around the ground (especially in the forward line) is very good, especially combined with his ability to get the ball in those contests.
He is also on of the best 1% in the league in my view. His experience in defense gives him an excellent knowledge of when to spoil or mark, when to tap or take possession, and he gets a lot of tackles and blocks in.
He's not the best centre-bounce ruck, but his tap work around the ground (especially in the forward line) is very good, especially combined with his ability to get the ball in those contests.
He is also on of the best 1% in the league in my view. His experience in defense gives him an excellent knowledge of when to spoil or mark, when to tap or take possession, and he gets a lot of tackles and blocks in.
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
1. Murphy (1)
2. Pendlebury (5)
3. Ryder (7)
4. Swallow (43)
5. Jack (Rookie 57)
6. Thomas (2)
7. Clark (9)
8. Hurn (13)
9. Vince (32)
10. Warnock (42)
11. Gilbert (33)
12. Higgins (11)
13. Hocking (Rookie 20)
14. Jones (12)
15. Varcoe (15)
6-15 are a bit of a lucky dip really, and could also include Dempsey, Priddis, Kennedy, Carlile and a few others depending how they kick on this year. Still very early days. Birchall and Ellis were looking good a while back but have dropped off, so the lower parts of this list move about a bit.
The top 5 I am pretty set on though. I think they will be continue to be quality and will only go lower on the list if someone else picks it up and becomes an absolute star.
Hocking is obviously my talking point. I don't think he will look as strange in this list come the end of the year.
1. Murphy (1)
2. Pendlebury (5)
3. Ryder (7)
4. Swallow (43)
5. Jack (Rookie 57)
6. Thomas (2)
7. Clark (9)
8. Hurn (13)
9. Vince (32)
10. Warnock (42)
11. Gilbert (33)
12. Higgins (11)
13. Hocking (Rookie 20)
14. Jones (12)
15. Varcoe (15)
6-15 are a bit of a lucky dip really, and could also include Dempsey, Priddis, Kennedy, Carlile and a few others depending how they kick on this year. Still very early days. Birchall and Ellis were looking good a while back but have dropped off, so the lower parts of this list move about a bit.
The top 5 I am pretty set on though. I think they will be continue to be quality and will only go lower on the list if someone else picks it up and becomes an absolute star.
Hocking is obviously my talking point. I don't think he will look as strange in this list come the end of the year.
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
Did you just wake up from a coma?
Seriously...WTF is this garbage?
Did you just wake up from a coma?
Seriously...WTF is this garbage?
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Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
But Goodes hasn't played in the ruck since early in 2004 (the season after winning the Brownlow as a ruckman) when he injured a PCL after clashing knees with an opponent at a centre bounce. Roos realised at that point that Goodes was far to valuable to waste him bashing and crashing against bigger ruckmen.
I realise Ryder is taller than Goodes and has a better vertical leap. I still wonder about how effective he would be as a first ruck over 5-6 seasons playing 60+% of 22+ games. That doesn't mean he can't be a very effective relief ruckman but I think it explains why most reckon the likes of Goldstein, Mumford (of the up and comers), Hille, Jolly, Cox, Sandilands, McIntosh etc (of the more established rucks) are better bets as long-term first rucks.
But Goodes hasn't played in the ruck since early in 2004 (the season after winning the Brownlow as a ruckman) when he injured a PCL after clashing knees with an opponent at a centre bounce. Roos realised at that point that Goodes was far to valuable to waste him bashing and crashing against bigger ruckmen.
I realise Ryder is taller than Goodes and has a better vertical leap. I still wonder about how effective he would be as a first ruck over 5-6 seasons playing 60+% of 22+ games. That doesn't mean he can't be a very effective relief ruckman but I think it explains why most reckon the likes of Goldstein, Mumford (of the up and comers), Hille, Jolly, Cox, Sandilands, McIntosh etc (of the more established rucks) are better bets as long-term first rucks.
Smyth94
Norm Smith Medallist
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
As Slatts pointed out, Ryder has played two full seasons as the leading ruckman and has barely missed a game through injury in that period. The overwhelming evidence suggests that durability in the ruck is not an issue for Ryder.
Don't get the concerns to be honest.
As Slatts pointed out, Ryder has played two full seasons as the leading ruckman and has barely missed a game through injury in that period. The overwhelming evidence suggests that durability in the ruck is not an issue for Ryder.
Don't get the concerns to be honest.
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
Just curious as to what you base this on? Taking into account that one has been AA, won a Norm Smith Medal, has a top 5 finish in the Brownlow and is a premiership player. The other has been Runner Up in a Carlton B&F and finished top ten in a Brownlow. I could probably agree with you if you said the above at the end of 2009 but since then Pendlebury has gone ahead of Murphy.
Just curious as to what you base this on? Taking into account that one has been AA, won a Norm Smith Medal, has a top 5 finish in the Brownlow and is a premiership player. The other has been Runner Up in a Carlton B&F and finished top ten in a Brownlow. I could probably agree with you if you said the above at the end of 2009 but since then Pendlebury has gone ahead of Murphy.
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
Tuck 400 odd, Bartlett 400 odd, Bradley 360 odd, some gingery bloke in his late 30s going around... wiry's under-rated.
There's a lot of "seems" in it, based on a wiry frame.
Tuck 400 odd, Bartlett 400 odd, Bradley 360 odd, some gingery bloke in his late 30s going around... wiry's under-rated.
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
The gap between Pendlebury nd the rest is getting bigger.
+1
The gap between Pendlebury nd the rest is getting bigger.
Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done
And yet Murphy has narrowed the gap between them already this season. Go figure!
As to Scodogs question, why the +1? You were already involved in a discussion just a few pages back where the reasoning for someone putting Murphy & Pendles neck and neck was laid out. Couple that with Murphy's form this year and I thought the answer would have been one of the more easily tapped in footy jabbers.
And yet Murphy has narrowed the gap between them already this season. Go figure!
As to Scodogs question, why the +1? You were already involved in a discussion just a few pages back where the reasoning for someone putting Murphy & Pendles neck and neck was laid out. Couple that with Murphy's form this year and I thought the answer would have been one of the more easily tapped in footy jabbers.
