Draft Review 2005 - Redo the 2005 Draft

[Pykie]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Think Warnock and West will really improve massively over next couple of seasons and go on to be top 10 rucks in their own right. Possible top 5 around the league. .

Really?

I wouldn't have thought so.......



Kreuzer, NN, Goldstein, Luenburger, Mumford, Smith, McEvoy, Clarke, Lobbe, Gorringe and Bailey will all be infront of them imo

And thats not taking into account the likes of Jamar, Sandilands, McIntosh etc, who are older but will still be around, and remain better.

And guys like Ryder, Clark etc who are better ruckman than KPP if their clubs have the need to play them there regularly.

 

[Knightmare]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Really?

I wouldn't have thought so.......



Kreuzer, NN, Goldstein, Luenburger, Mumford, Smith, McEvoy, Clarke, Lobbe, Gorringe and Bailey will all be infront of them imo

And thats not taking into account the likes of Jamar, Sandilands, McIntosh etc, who are older but will still be around, and remain better.

And guys like Ryder, Clark etc who are better ruckman than KPP if their clubs have the need to play them there regularly.

With rucks it's more interesting projecting ahead because it is less precise and it is more projecting ahead on perceived upside.

If I was starting a team I'd go with (only including 20+ y/os):
Dominant: Naitanui, Goldstein, Mumford, Z.Smith, Leuenberger, Warnock, Very high level: Z.Clarke, West, Vardy, Jacobs (If I wasn't stopping at 10 would add Kreuzer + McEvoy to this category along with Vickery)

*Would take these over the likes of Kreuzer/McEvoy/M.Clarke/Ryder/Lobbe/Bailey as rucks all of whom you rated as clearly better.
Kreuzer I worry about injury issues. McEvoy would be the next on my list after Kreuzer, but don't think he will ever be dominant and will get dominated by bigger rucks. M.Clarke had the one good season, unsure if he will ever fulfill potential. Ryder lacks defined position + consistancy in any position. Lobbe hasn't shown enough yet but should develop. Bailey has had injury difficulties throughout, starting to get over but hardly think he is a sure thing.

Jamar is quality but nearing 30 so decided not to include (but would be in my very high level category just above West/Jacobs).
Sandilands/Cox among other 30 year olds would make the list if not for age.


It's interesting how much variation we can have with these rucks in their early 20s. Wouldn't happen at any other position. Even KPPs by 21/22 you generally know what you've got.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

I'd still take Ryder but he'd easily be in our 21. Hille is finished but Goldstein has already shown more as a ruckman than Hille has his entire career (in terms of consistency, Hille can dominate games like Cox and Sandilands and Goldstein as yet can't).

Ryder is far more versatile. As a pure ruckman, Goldstein, as a footballer, Ryder.

Just my opinion. No need for anyone to get their knickers in a knot.

Dustin Fletcher would be in the AA team every year if it were accurate.

wow, I think it's your objectivity I like the most.

Ryder should become a very good player, but he's not a patch on Goldstein IMO.

If you are a North supporter you would say Swallow.
If you are Collingwood supporter you would say Thomas.
If you are a neutral it would be 50/50 maybe slightly in Thomas' favour.
Not a lot between them. Thomas probably has more class whilst Swallow is more of a workhorse.

Think it'd be quite a bit more slanted towards Thomas. I ****ing hate Collingwood, but Thomas is a gun and is definitely ahead of Swallow.

 

[jabbers]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Paddy Ryder has really slid down people's lists from three years ago. Hasn't kicked on like most expected.

1. Pendlebury
2. Murphy/Thomas
4. Kennedy
5. Swallow

For mine.

 

[Silvagnis]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

No to the squib at one.

Murphy is harder and a lot more in and under than Pendlebury.

 

[eth-dog]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

No to the squib at one.

Murphy is harder and a lot more in and under than Pendlebury.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

1. Pendlebury
2. Kennedy
3. Murphy
4. Thomas
5. Swallow
6. Warnock
7. Hurn
8. Higgins
9. Clark
10. Birchall
11. Varcoe
12. Ryder
13. Jones
14. Carlile
15. Vince

 

[Silvagnis]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Have you seen Murphy take short steps like this or early on in his career?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFDgk8avqLU

Robinson, Murphy, Swallow or Selwood would have bodylined that ball.

Murphy isn't a nutter like Robinson, but he has more intensity and pace than Pendlebury who couldn't burn off Puopolo there. Recall a great comment that in comparison to Riewoldt who cried after that incident with Michael and Scott, Murphy was seething and ropeable at being taken out by Copeland. An injured Murphy put his body on the line and kept tackling after Copeland took him out.

I rate Thomas higher for his legspeed and fearless approach to a contest.

I'd love to hear a compelling argument as to why Carlton would change our picks one and four for Pendlebury and Thomas. If Murphy hadn't been booked in for hip surgery in January of 2010, he would have followed up his 30 goal season in 2009 and won the first of two AA guernseys. Murphy won the AFLCA POTY award. They must know a bit.

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

No to the squib at one.

Murphy is harder and a lot more in and under than Pendlebury.

General that may even be true, but until Marc reduces his whinging to umpires and cuts back on his over acting for free's.

He will be continued to be perceived as a winey front runner, that hates the physical side of the game.

The fact the defensive side of his game goes missing alot doesn't help also.

Having said all that he is one of the best offensive players in the league, and is starting to go past Judd in that regard.

 

[Number 10]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

No to the squib at one.

Murphy is harder and a lot more in and under than Pendlebury.

Hahahaha, I needed a laugh today.

Good joke

 

[Sin City]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

General that may even be true, but until Marc reduces his whinging to umpires and cuts back on his over acting for free's.

He will be continued to be perceived as a winey front runner, that hates the physical side of the game.

The fact the defensive side of his game goes missing alot doesn't help also.

Having said all that he is one of the best offensive players in the league, and is starting to go past Judd in that regard.

Couldn't care less where people have players ranked but these comments about Murphy - while certainly true in 2008 - are way off the mark. He hasn't been doing any of the diving for years and has worked very hard on the defensive side of his game.

Is much more physical player than he used to be an does a heap more work in close, his tackle numbers have also gone up a heap lately (58 & 64 in 08 & 07, 100 and 108 the last two years).

 

[Silvagnis]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

1. Marc Murphy
2. Dale Thomas
3. Scott Pendlebury
4. Josh Kennedy
5. Mitch Clark
6. Grant Birchall
7. Andrew Swallow
8. Patrick Ryder
9. Matt Priddis
10. Bernie Vince
11. Shannon Hurn
12. Travis Varcoe
13. Shaun Higgins
14. Sam Gilbert
15. Heath Hocking
16. Kieran Jack
17. Ben McGlynn
18. Nathan Jones
19. Richard Douglas
20. Alipate Carlile
21. Robert Warnock
22. Matthew Stokes
23. Garrick Ibbotson
24. Paul Duffield
25. Joel Patfull
26. Jason Porplyzia
27. Paul Bower
28. Xavier Ellis
29. Courtney Dempsey
30. Max Bailey
31. Alan Toovey
32. Sam Lonergan
33. Matt Thomas
34. Nick Lower
35. Trent West
36. Clint Bartram
37. John Anthony
38. Ben McKinley
39. Danny Stanley

 

[jabbers]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Have you seen Murphy take short steps like this or early on in his career?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFDgk8avqLU

Robinson, Murphy, Swallow or Selwood would have bodylined that ball.

Murphy isn't a nutter like Robinson, but he has more intensity and pace than Pendlebury who couldn't burn off Puopolo there. Recall a great comment that in comparison to Riewoldt who cried after that incident with Michael and Scott, Murphy was seething and ropeable at being taken out by Copeland. An injured Murphy put his body on the line and kept tackling after Copeland took him out.

I rate Thomas higher for his legspeed and fearless approach to a contest.

I'd love to hear a compelling argument as to why Carlton would change our picks one and four for Pendlebury and Thomas. If Murphy hadn't been booked in for hip surgery in January of 2010, he would have followed up his 30 goal season in 2009 and won the first of two AA guernseys. Murphy won the AFLCA POTY award. They must know a bit.

You can't be serious with that link. Pendlebury fumbled a poor handball, nothing more.
Pendlebury lays more tackles than Murphy and wins more contested footy. His record in big games is exceptional. Murphy is a very good player but a clear second in that draft.

 

[bombermick]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

What has Mitch Clark done to be ahead of Priddis, Gilbert, A. Swallow and Ryder? He's had one great season, but the others have performed at a high level for far longer - particulary Gilbert and Priddis.

 

[AGC]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

1. 
   
   38 Ben McKinley
   39.Danny Stanley

That is the biggest insult to Danny Stanley that I have ever seen

 

[AGC]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

You mention the word argue - I am asking a question - I continually read that Goldstein is the second or third best ruck in the AFL - And he finished 7th in the B and F.

Strange that I have never mentioned Ryder or any other player in my post -

We are discussing Goldstein.

The two are not related. Goldstein is the 3rd best ruck in the competition at the moment and the 2nd best ruckman in the AFL this year.
Goldstein was our 7th best player this year. There were no ruckman ahead of him in our b and f.

 

[mufassa]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

You mention the word argue - I am asking a question - I continually read that Goldstein is the second or third best ruck in the AFL - And he finished 7th in the B and F.

Strange that I have never mentioned Ryder or any other player in my post -

We are discussing Goldstein.

So B&F is the way we rank a player now? Stanton is the 2nd best player at Essendon. Great - is betting open on the spoon yet?

 

[Ambrosia]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

1. Scott Pendlebury
2. Marc Murphy
3. Dale Thomas
4. Josh Kennedy
5. Andrew Swallow
6. Robert Warnock
7. Matt Priddis
8. Trent West
9. Grant Birchall
10. Shaun Higgins

I've read your reasons for why you have him there but he is too small to compete with the taller ruckman will always be a handy back up ruckman who can fill a whole forward and back and it could just be me but I personally would rather clark/ryder imo

 

[yaco55]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

So B&F is the way we rank a player now? Stanton is the 2nd best player at Essendon. Great - is betting open on the spoon yet?

How else do you rate a player - And this is after reading how good Goldstein currently is - Leigh Adams beat him in the B and F - And Adams is a good, solid player.

Goldstein is a good player - tracking to be a very good player - But he is not currently a GUN - as suggested by North supporters.

For example - Zaharakis who won our B and F is a good player - Like Goldstein should end up a very good player - But no need to say he is a GUN.

And Stanton is irrelevant to the argument - seeing that many Essendon supporters dont rate Stanton.

I will watch North's B and F results in 2012 with interest - A natural progression by Goldstein should see him finish top 4 in the B and F.

 

[PykeDream]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

That is the biggest insult to Danny Stanley that I have ever seen

Haha, I thought this too, I think Stanley probably deserves to be a bit higher after playing his role so well this year for the Suns - at the very least he's certainly much better than McKinley is or will likely ever be.

 

[Keystone agony]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Paddy Ryder has to be top 10 without a second thought the second best tall from this draft behind Kennedy.

Also dont think Jack is getting his due course. He is considered better than Vince for me. Id pick him ahead of Vince anyday if i re did the draft now. Had an injury interrupted season and people tend to remember the last season the most but he had a superb season the year before.

 

[Spitta09]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

1. Marc Murphy
2. Dale Thomas
3. Scott Pendlebury
4. Josh Kennedy
5. Mitch Clark
6. Grant Birchall
7. Andrew Swallow
8. Patrick Ryder
9. Matt Priddis
10. Bernie Vince
11. Shannon Hurn
12. Travis Varcoe
13. Shaun Higgins
14. Sam Gilbert
15. Heath Hocking
16. Kieran Jack
17. Ben McGlynn
18. Nathan Jones
19. Richard Douglas
20. Alipate Carlile
21. Robert Warnock
22. Matthew Stokes
23. Garrick Ibbotson
24. Paul Duffield
25. Joel Patfull
26. Jason Porplyzia
27. Paul Bower
28. Xavier Ellis
29. Courtney Dempsey
30. Max Bailey
31. Alan Toovey
32. Sam Lonergan
33. Matt Thomas
34. Nick Lower
35. Trent West
36. Clint Bartram
37. John Anthony
38. Ben McKinley
39. Danny Stanley

Clark and Birchall ahead of Swallow thanks for the laugh mate

 

[Wargreymon90]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Clark and Birchall ahead of Swallow thanks for the laugh mate

agreed
Swallow should be a locked at 5. Could even consider him at 4.

 

[Keystone agony]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

agreed
Swallow should be a locked at 5. Could even consider him at 4.

Something eagle fans could argue is also that Priddis has been better than Swallow. If you looked at number,stats even brownlow votes for similar players who are both the inside hard players for their sides, Priddis would came at well in front.

 

[Sin City]

Re: 2005 Afl draft Re-Done

Stats.

Priddis is good but Swallow is a better player.