2011 Draft Discussion #2

[Banana Boots]

get manson, id love some black magic in the team

 

[Ruse]

I have a feeling Manson is gonna be the next Tyler Chalwell.

 

[Special88]

I have a feeling Manson is gonna be the next Tyler Chalwell.

Big call.

Chalwell has one of the best youtube vids of all time... of all time!!!

 

[whatboutbob]

I just posted similar up on the d&t board, but thought it might be worth discussing here.

With the drafting of Lester and Karnezis last year, have we moved on from the apparent policy of avoiding Vic Metro players?

Since 2000, out of 27 first and second round picks (particularly relevant for this year), the Lions have drafted from the following regions:

WA: 7 (McGrath, Moody, Hadley, Spaanderman, Clark, Leuenberger, Rich)
SA: 5 (Wright, Wood, Schmidt, Redden, Polec)
Vic Country: 5 (Bartlett, Henderson, Adcock, Gram, Selwood - 2 went 'home')
QLD: 4 (Charman, Merrett, Mills, Proud)
Tas: 2 (Green, Collier)
Vic Metro: 2 (Lester & Karnezis - last year)
NT: 1 (Corrie)
NSW: 1 (Garner)

...and partly because the comments are somewhat amusing in light of recent events, I thought I'd bump this article:

...the Lions' former recruiting guru Kinnear Beatson told WAtoday.com.au he had often followed the maxim of "when in doubt, go for the Sandgroper."

"Did we directly target WA players? No. But if it came down to a lineball decision between two players then we'd probably look more favourably on the kid from WA," Beatson said.

"One factor was the size of the grounds they play on in WA. They are generally much bigger than other states and a lot closer to size of the grounds the AFL uses.

"Also, the fact that it was much harder for a player to get back to WA was a factor."

"Even if a player wanted to go home, then the their chance of doing so was significantly less with only two clubs (Fremantle and West Coast) to choose from rather than 10, as would be the case with a young player from Victoria."

So do y'all think it will have any bearing on our drafting this year?

 

[whatboutbob]

Hehehe, Manson's just kicked his tenth in the NT.

(Fev kicked 8)

 

[cotter101]

Hehehe, Mason's just kicked his tenth in the NT.

(Fev kicked 8)

Pfft Fev you old man, Cant even kick more goals than an 18 year old.

 

[whatboutbob]

28 from Manson in three weeks I believe. Here's hoping he makes it.

 

[cotter101]

28 from Mason in three weeks I believe. Here's hoping he makes it.

I think if he gets drafted by a WA club it will help him.

 

[Bucking Beads]

We should take him, our list doesn't have a lot of x factor.

 

[Special88]

We should take him, our list doesn't have a lot of x factor.

Really hope we don't tbh. Would be a wasted pick mainly because i just can't see him living in Brisbane and the city life.

One of the WA clubs will pick him up.

 

[whatboutbob]

Offsider: IIRC you've said you'd take Sumner over WHE. Do you have any concerns about his perceived lack of an inside game?

 

[Cousin Jed]

We should take him, our list doesn't have a lot of x factor.

Style, confidence, knowledge, presentation, appearance, charisma, ccccoooolness under pressure

 

[Bucking Beads]

Style, confidence, knowledge, presentation, appearance, charisma, ccccoooolness under pressure

??????

 

[Grimreepah]

It seems the Brisbane board has hopped on the WHE bandwagon this year.

This follows on from:

2006 - Mitch Thorp
2007 - Brad Ebert
2008 - Jack Ziebell
2009 - Callum Bartlett
2010 - Dyson Heppell

FWIW I think people are overestimating the predictability of the draft. Conca was the bolter last year, after the BigFooty concensus had him going at about 20.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Did we really hop on the Thorp and Ebert bandwagons in a big way? IIRC, it was more who we were expecting to get at those picks.

 

[Grimreepah]

Did we really hop on the Thorp and Ebert bandwagons in a big way? IIRC, it was more who we were expecting to get at those picks.

Well I would suggest the interest in WHE is also because he is expected to go at around our pick. Not much point building a bandwagon for Coniglio.

 

[whatboutbob]

Offsider: IIRC you've said you'd take Sumner over WHE. Do you have any concerns about his perceived lack of an inside game?

Sumner interview

This season, which finished with a Dragons premiership, has been one of growth and sacrifice.

Sumner was rotated through the engine room to develop his inside game.

"I've been trying to get a lot more hard-ball gets in and under the contest," he said. About mid-season, the slick midfielder made his defensive pressure a priority, and was beginning to notch eight tackles a game.

The second efforts, smothers, blocks, and all-round grunt work were also starting to feature. Though the in-close buffeting he copped was tough on his light frame, the polished playmaker said he had become a more rounded player.

"I guess there were some question marks against my name for a couple of things, but I feel as if I have knocked some of those off."

 

[Offsider]

In regards to Sumner I don't see his inside game being to much of a problem. Sure he will not win the clearances as well as say Toby Greene or Taylor Adams would, but when he does they are far cleaner and more damaging. He is certainly capable inside, and this part of his game is very underrated IMO, he is often more of a receiver though, he will get the handball from the clearance and set up play, but he is able to be the one who dishes off the handball or finds the ball on the ground. Could do with reading rucktaps a bit but that should come with time. Its what happens when he gets the ball which is exciting, he breaks packs open with his pace and agility, he damages opponents and is capable of moving through packs quite well and making quick decisions. He also provides good defensive pressure and chases and tackles well. I would pick him at 8 if still there IMO over Hoskin Elliot, Buntine, Kavanagh, and possibly even Wingard, although maybe not with Wingard slightly ahead.

 

[Gibbo_88]

In regards to Sumner I don't see his inside game being to much of a problem. Sure he will not win the clearances as well as say Toby Greene or Taylor Adams would, but when he does they are far cleaner and more damaging. He is certainly capable inside, and this part of his game is very underrated IMO, he is often more of a receiver though, he will get the handball from the clearance and set up play, but he is able to be the one who dishes off the handball or finds the ball on the ground. Could do with reading rucktaps a bit but that should come with time. Its what happens when he gets the ball which is exciting, he breaks packs open with his pace and agility, he damages opponents and is capable of moving through packs quite well and making quick decisions. He also provides good defensive pressure and chases and tackles well. I would pick him at 8 if still there IMO over Hoskin Elliot, Buntine, Kavanagh, and possibly even Wingard, although maybe not with Wingard slightly ahead.

Which AFL player would you compare him to?

 

[whatboutbob]

Which AFL player would you compare him to?

Shermo, but skilled.

*handballs to Offy for a serious answer*

 

[Grimreepah]

It seems the Brisbane board has hopped on the WHE bandwagon this year.

This follows on from:

2006 - Mitch Thorp
2007 - Brad Ebert
2008 - Jack Ziebell
2009 - Callum Bartlett
2010 - Dyson Heppell

FWIW I think people are overestimating the predictability of the draft. Conca was the bolter last year, after the BigFooty concensus had him going at about 20.

Almost forgot...

2005 - Austin Lucy

 

[Quigley]

Personally I have not seen too much of Hamling, although his U18 champs was pretty good, albeit against the weaker teams. He seems quite athletic, vertical leap stood out a bit, and his skills were ok. I would see him more as a late pick up or rookie at this stage. Very inconistent, and I have doubt over his marking and ability to play KP at a high level.

I think we could do worse than select Henry Schade at 30 if available. I really rate his future potential as a CHB/FB and think he should be closely considered.

I am liking Schade at 30 as well. Going back and looking at all the KPD options again over the last week or so and Schade stands out for me as close to the best and one who looks atm like could be had for a bargain.

Manson is certainly helping himself but maybe not helping him get to WA. I had him way down a few weeks ago but his performances demonstrate some huge improvement in him I think. I am thinking now that Freo might well line him up for 20. FWIW unlike Chalwell Manson was invited to draft camp so has been on the radars of a few teams at least.

 

[Offsider]

I think that Schade is most well rounded of the KPD prospects, he is equally good offensively as he is defensively. Other than that I think that Michael Bussey is another very good KPD prospect, I only rate him as a defender. Talia is good and should be round 30, Frost should go higher purely to do with athletic ability, Frazer McInness is hard to rate but could go higher, stronger 1 on 1 than the others IMO.

I would not be against using pick 47 on Manson given the lack of talent available at that pick, it stops about 40 IMO. Will definately be interesting to see where he falls.

Quigley what are your thoughts on Jordan Murdoch and Myles Bolger?

Also Sumner himself likens his style to Dale Thomas, and that is probably pretty spot on IMO, although Sumner has less aerial ability, and a better ability to find his way through packs. Both are highly skilled, fast exciting players, labelled outside but with reasonable inside ability, both also have that hard edge.

 

[mpal6]

Shermo, but skilled.

*handballs to Offy for a serious answer*

"Is this the next Dale Thomas" article about Sumner in today's HS

 

[Quigley]

Quigley what are your thoughts on Jordan Murdoch and Myles Bolger?

Murdoch I haven't placed yet and I am having trouble doing so. I heard that he did 2.76 or something like that at the State Screening which really makes you sit up and pay attention. Still he is a difficult size at 188. Did some nice things at the Champs but probably not as often as I wanted to see either. He is also a 19yr old which I consider as well the same way as I think it should be considered when rating Boseley (who is one I am not as high on as most).


Bolger I really don't rate and would be very happy for someone else to take earlier than he should go. In two games from the Champs I saw Kolka and Cabrera beat Grundy and make him look like the bottom ager he is and then Grundy come back and spank Bolger and look stronger than him. Personally I don't see much to like. He is not strong, not athletic, not a factor around the ground, not well skilled and not a good decision maker.

What are you thoughts on those two? I will throw you a couple as well for your opinion who I like but no-one else seems to care for much - Raikiwasa and Piva Wright. Again two guys in that awkward size bracket who have shown a few nice things.