2014 Draft Discussion

[sonofabeams]

Heppell has been going well in the VFL this year and deserves a chance.

I think a genuine small forward is still a need for what it's worth. But I think I'd rather look for one late in the national draft or rookie draft.

Yeh he looks good, suprised he missed out last year, has signed on the bombers reserves, and from all reports is doing really well

 

[Swanny10]

Heppell has been going well in the VFL this year and deserves a chance.

I think a genuine crumbing small forward is still a need for what it's worth. But I think I'd rather look for one late in the national draft or rookie draft.

I think the essential thing is we need a small that has that zip and pace that can read the ball off hands. An Eddie Betts/Lindsay Thomas type. The guys that we currently have that play this role aren't great crumbers IMO.

 

[blueiris]

I think the essential thing is we need a small that has that zip and pace that can read the ball off hands. An Eddie Betts/Lindsay Thomas type. The guys that we currently have that play this role aren't great crumbers IMO.

Disagree I think Green is really improving that part of his game and will only get better . Problem is Lepper playing Mayes in defense Mayes is definitely our best marking medium forward.

 

[jjami15]

Green's hands are very good.

 

[Gibbo_88]

I think the essential thing is we need a small that has that zip and pace that can read the ball off hands. An Eddie Betts/Lindsay Thomas type. The guys that we currently have that play this role aren't great crumbers IMO.

I think having the small forward that is consistently kicking goals is the icing on the cake. It's hard to know if we really have one on our list at the moment or not. It's a flow on effect, our midfield will become better the more they play together, the forwards will then get better delivery inside 50 and then there is going to be the opportunities for a small forward. Unfortunately the moment and in the near future, anyone playing the small forward role is defending more then they are attacking.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Disagree I think Green is really improving that part of his game and will only get better . Problem is Lepper playing Mayes in defense Mayes is definitely our best marking medium forward.

I agree.

Look at it as a learning curve - my guess is you will be praising Leppa in 12 months time for his development of Sam Mayes.

 

[blueiris]

I agree.

Look at it as a learning curve - my guess is you will be praising Leppa in 12 months time for his development of Sam Mayes.

I don't have a problem with Mayes in defense couldn't agree with you more but would love to see Mayes forward. Really want to see Harwood playing soon can't see what Leppa has against him especially when Golby gets games before him.

 

[James North]

I don't have a problem with Mayes in defense couldn't agree with you more but would love to see Mayes forward. Really want to see Harwood playing soon can't see what Leppa has against him especially when Golby gets games before him.

It'd be really great if we didn't have a preference where he played because he was a gun everywhere.

Without being Leppa, it is hard to know what his plans for guys like Golby and Harwood are ... but I think everything is being done very deliberately.

 

[QLDatHEART]

I thought Harwood made the jump into our 22 permanently last year. He showed dash and strong kicking percentage.
I wonder what has gone wrong.
We really need him in our team to free up the likes of Mayes and Hanley.
I don't hold much hope for Golby.

 

[QLDatHEART]

Mayes is much better forward

 

[James North]

Mayes is much better forward

Currently.

 

[jackess]

Wrong thread for this discussion but could our inability to adapt game plans be hurt by playing Mayes and others out of position? They have to learn a new gameplan and a new position.

 

[chopperduck]

I think most of the changes come under the banner of Leppa wanting players to have multiple strings to their bows. He isn't happy with players, especially our young developing players, being one dimensional and only being able to play 1 role. I think this year has a lot to do with development and him figuring out what these players are actually capable of. On the fancast Leppa indicated Mayes would likely see out the year in the backline. The main reason, so he simply gets more ball. He can kick goals, he is good at that, but he doesn't get a lot of the footy playing that position, even though he does usually kick a goal or two. They want him getting more ball and are playing him in a position that allows that. Overall, i think it is good coaching, and we will see this pay off in 3 or 4 years time. Players like Golby i think have been found out a bit, not being able to fit into other roles and not adjusting to the changes in the game plan. It is a bit of a case of sink or swim this year with the players who have been here the 4 or 5 years. I think Leppa believes they should be showing more than what they have to date, and Voss not being able to fully commit to youth in recent years probably didn't help that. He was encouraged to win games over development, and some of our younger players have suffered from that (not to mention our rubbish footy dept spend and all that jazz).

First year in charge of a team that has to come from a long way back. Needs a couple of years of good drafting, Leppa is putting in place they way he wants us to play, but the focus is on development of these young players so that in 5 years time, we aren't just making up the numbers.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I think most of the changes come under the banner of Leppa wanting players to have multiple strings to their bows. He isn't happy with players, especially our young developing players, being one dimensional and only being able to play 1 role. I think this year has a lot to do with development and him figuring out what these players are actually capable of. On the fancast Leppa indicated Mayes would likely see out the year in the backline. The main reason, so he simply gets more ball. He can kick goals, he is good at that, but he doesn't get a lot of the footy playing that position, even though he does usually kick a goal or two. They want him getting more ball and are playing him in a position that allows that. Overall, i think it is good coaching, and we will see this pay off in 3 or 4 years time. Players like Golby i think have been found out a bit, not being able to fit into other roles and not adjusting to the changes in the game plan. It is a bit of a case of sink or swim this year with the players who have been here the 4 or 5 years. I think Leppa believes they should be showing more than what they have to date, and Voss not being able to fully commit to youth in recent years probably didn't help that. He was encouraged to win games over development, and some of our younger players have suffered from that (not to mention our rubbish footy dept spend and all that jazz).

First year in charge of a team that has to come from a long way back. Needs a couple of years of good drafting, Leppa is putting in place they way he wants us to play, but the focus is on development of these young players so that in 5 years time, we aren't just making up the numbers.

Well said. It's a delicate balance though. I don't think anyone thinks he will be a permanent backman which means it is a learning experience for Mayes. But given he is still finding his feet in the AFL, I would hate to see his confidence broken because he is playing a role to which he isn't suited or destined for long term. I also challenge the theory that playing in the backline of a weaker team necessarily translates to a player getting more of the ball. In fact, his higher possession games have been when he is playing wing or half forward are far as I can tell.

 

[Kevvo]

Well said. It's a delicate balance though. I don't think anyone thinks he will be a permanent backman which means it is a learning experience for Mayes. But given he is still finding his feet in the AFL, I would hate to see his confidence broken because he is playing a role to which he isn't suited or destined for long term. I also challenge the theory that playing in the backline of a weaker team necessarily translates to a player getting more of the ball. In fact, his higher possession games have been when he is playing wing or half forward are far as I can tell.

I reckon that is a legitimite concern, but so far, Mayes strikes me as someone with a bit of perspective. I'm confident he will take it for what it is and probably get a fair bit out of it.

When Leppa spoke about it on the fancast, I got the impression it was about more than just possessions. Reading the reserves wrap, the coaches seem to believe in the virtue of running players in the positions their opponents would normally play (ie a HFF at HBF) to expose them to what works and what doesn't.

 

[blynd_freddie]

Wrong thread for this discussion but could our inability to adapt game plans be hurt by playing Mayes and others out of position? They have to learn a new gameplan and a new position.

NO?

I would have thought part of learning any 'big picture' game plan would be an understanding of how all the 'pieces'/(players roles) fit together?

Sure, in certain instances it might be beneficial to 'dumb it down' or keep it simple for some players but generally I would have thought most players would develop faster by knowing the majority of the hows and whys of each area of the ground.

For example: I would have thought a long kicking defender or midfielder would certainly benefit with the knowledge of the forwards leading patterns - Mayes [when playing back]would be learning to kick where he ought to be leading/blockingdecoying to when playing forward is one aspect. Another would be linked around forward pressure - play him on a forward like with experience and have him learn in real-time what he is being taught on the track?

 

[scoman]

Dropped into Redlands this morning and saw a quarter of the Qld v Eastern Rangers. Weller looked a class above winning plenty of football. Dawson was playing in the forward pocket and spent a bit if time on the bench despite being named on the ball. Kicked a nice goal by running hard into an open forward line to scoop up a bouncing ball in the goal square. Didn't see much else from him. He might be playing another game this weekend.

 

[Dylan12]

On TAC Future Stars earlier, Petracca ??? looked good (very solidly built KPF), albeit from a short highlights clip, but at 196cm the panel were of the opinion that he already has the size to debut and make an impact next year.

To the draft watchers such as Quigley and cotter101 where does he fit compared to Wright, Durdin and McCartin?

Edit. In Wallace's rolling top 10 based on the current ladder, he had Petracca at no.8. FWIW, he had the Lions taking McCartin at no.1...interestingly Wright at no.5.

 

[pulpdriver]

On TAC Future Stars earlier, Petracca ??? looked good (very solidly built KPF), albeit from a short highlights clip, but at 196cm the panel were of the opinion that he already has the size to debut and make an impact next year.

To the draft watchers such as Quigley and cotter101 where does he fit compared to Wright, Durdin and McCartin?

Edit. In Wallace's rolling top 10 based on the current ladder, he had Petracca at no.8. FWIW, he had the Lions taking McCartin at no.1...interestingly Wright at no.5.

Are you sure he's 196cm? Everywhere else has him listed at 186cm.

 

[Dylan12]

Are you sure he's 196cm? Everywhere else has him listed at 186cm.

I'm sure that's what they said on Future Stars. He looked like a pretty big boy. I'm positive they said 196, but perhaps I heard it wrong if that is the case.

 

[cotter101]

On TAC Future Stars earlier, Petracca ??? looked good (very solidly built KPF), albeit from a short highlights clip, but at 196cm the panel were of the opinion that he already has the size to debut and make an impact next year.

To the draft watchers such as Quigley and cotter101 where does he fit compared to Wright, Durdin and McCartin?

Edit. In Wallace's rolling top 10 based on the current ladder, he had Petracca at no.8. FWIW, he had the Lions taking McCartin at no.1...interestingly Wright at no.5.

Petracca is currently 186cm tall. He has been able to play as a key forward in the TAC Cup in the past but would play as a medium/third tall forward at the next level. He just manhandles anyone who gets in his way. His ability to judge the flight of the ball and read the game sets him apart from most in the draft. Starting to play in the midfield and had adapted to the role very well. Endurance probably the only thing holding him back.

As I said above, he isn't really a Key Forward. So I can't really compare him to Wright and McCartin.

I don't yet see Petracca as a first round certainty. But if he was available at our second, I'd snap him up. Getting someone like Wright/McCartin and then Petracca would just about be our forward problems solved.

 

[jjami15]

Think we should just draft Geelong Falcons! McCartin and Jackson Nelson this year and Rhys Mathieson or Darcy Tucker next year. Add them to Lewy and Gardiner. That'll solve go home issues!

 

[Offsider]

Personally I believe that Petracca is a top 10 talent in the draft this year, but to some extent I expect him to slide like some other dominant medium sized forwards have (Matt McDonough at Richmand was in the same boat). Petracca is excellent over head, is a decent athlete, strong and is very clean. He doesn't have elite speed like some other small forwards, but he plays as more of a medium key position player, similar to a Luke Bruest or Jamie Elliot in style in that he plays as a focal point in attack despite his size. He also has a great kick and skills wise he is up there in the draft. Just needs to work on his endurance and defensive game.

 

[sonofabeams]

Petracca is currently 186cm tall. He has been able to play as a key forward in the TAC Cup in the past but would play as a medium/third tall forward at the next level. He just manhandles anyone who gets in his way. His ability to judge the flight of the ball and read the game sets him apart from most in the draft. Starting to play in the midfield and had adapted to the role very well. Endurance probably the only thing holding him back.

As I said above, he isn't really a Key Forward. So I can't really compare him to Wright and McCartin.

I don't yet see Petracca as a first round certainty. But if he was available at our second, I'd snap him up. Getting someone like Wright/McCartin and then Petracca would just about be our forward problems solved.

Would absolutely love Petracca Been carving it up in the TAC has been moved more midfield this year and had 31 odd touches in his last game, a excellent contested mark,

 

[POBT]

he plays as more of a medium key position player, similar to a Luke Bruest or Jamie Elliot in style in that he plays as a focal point in attack despite his size.

I reckon this sort of player is becoming increasingly valuable. I reckon you ideally want one of two things in your forward line - either a KPP type who moves like a flanker (Darling, Crameri etc) or a flanker who can take a mark like a KPP (Elliot, Breust, Le Cras etc). The reason is that sides are increasingly plonking a ruckman in the forward line for long periods. Therefore, if you play 2 genuine tall KPPs plus a ruckman, you run the risk of being too immobile and getting destroyed on the rebound.

However, a hybrid player who can give you a more balanced option (ie a genuine marking target, a ground level capability and good defensive efforts) will help balance out the immobility of a tall ruckman. It also opens up options so that, if you want to play tall (eg a ruck-forward and 2 genuine talls), that player can give you some ground coverage but if you want to go small (eg put your reserve ruck on the bench) you don't lose a lot in structure.

I reckon Paine gives us some of what we need from that role but he lacks the agility of a Bewick. But Bewick lacks physicality and can't really be used as a target man, except perhaps on the lead. Ash is probably our best performed in this hybrid role.