List Mgmt. 2016 Draft, Trades and Retirements Thread

[Donza]

Looking at the draft you could throw a blanket over the top 20... 14 and 17 seem equal on potential...

 

[Tuco]

Re-signing Reid is a good idea. I know he's a meme of sorts on these boards. But I'm keen to roll out our actual fwd line next year. Xav did a great job plugging the hole. But it was makeshift this entire season. Reid or someone like him is the misding link IMHO.

 

[ashep]

Now that we've generously made our chief rival better, I'd really love to hear from the club how they plan on improving our team for 2017.

Because for now, we're going backwards.

 

[Vin Rogue]

Just wondering out of curiosity, how much does everyone actually value the draft? I know there's always plenty of talk about picks and which kids look best and what not, but we've been able to make genuine guns out of blokes that weren't rated highly in the draft so it's always felt somewhat irrelevant to me.

Is it really the be all that ends all? (I know squat about the draft so feel free to correct me)

My take on it is that skills don't change much from when you are an under age player to seniors. Your ability to deliver by hand and foot, and mark overhead under pressure stays much the same. Your heart for the contest doesn't change much also. Your ability to read the game doesn't change much. Your body shape, power and speed and endurance does change, and those against whom you compete. This is where it can all change to dross or gold. Some champs in the junior game are champs because their height and power far exceed others. But against men, they sometimes fail. Probably top five prospects should standout because of the high quality of their skills and poise. Beyond the top five, it really does become a lottery. I like Beatson's trust in the youngest players in the middle part of the draft. If they can perform against older lads in the TAC Cup then that is a good indicator that they will cope against bigger bodies as they transition to seniors. So beyond the first half a dozen picks, I reckon you are probably right to have the opinion you hold.

 

[Dan87]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-13/callum-twomeys-phantom-form-guide-october-edition

Florent, Bolton,Simpkin, Venables etc

 

[Vin Rogue]

But how can one of the best athletes the game's ever seen in Adam Goodes be pick no. 43? It's always left me feeling like the draft gives absolutely no indication really

Goodesie was a 17 year old. Each Club was allowed one 17 year old draft selection. We used ours at 43 but we could have used it at any later stage because we were the last to use our selection and Goodesie would still have been there. The real issue is how the other Clubs missed out before us with their selections. We got lucky. We got real lucky.

 

[Vin Rogue]

Re-signing Reid is a good idea. I know he's a meme of sorts on these boards. But I'm keen to roll out our actual fwd line next year. Xav did a great job plugging the hole. But it was makeshift this entire season. Reid or someone like him is the misding link IMHO.

Particularly the kick out of defence. He is our missing link man and marks very well overhead on his own, less so when contested. I would like to see him get some time as a pinch hitting midfielder. Hard to match up.

 

[Artygunner]

What is everyone's thoughts on Griffin Logue? I know we are probably more after speedy mid/hbf/hff that a KPP but I think there is plenty of options in the draft pool for that. Logue seems ready to go and his combine results were immense! Should we take 14 and 17 to the draft I'd say we go for Logue and Powell-Pepper

Callum Twomey on Logue at the combine;

The West Australian key defender was a star at the combine, recording a 9:58 minute 3km time trial and being the equal winner of the beep test. He matched the endurance efforts with being top-10 in the repeat sprints and taking out one of the running vertical jumps. The weekend at Etihad Stadium proved what many had seen coming for a little while: that Logue is one of the most bankable big defenders in the pool. He could play straight away, such is his body size, maturity and athletic profile. Logue is a good intercept marker and helps out teammates, too.

 

[bungwahl]

What is everyone's thoughts on Griffin Logue? I know we are probably more after speedy mid/hbf/hff that a KPP but I think there is plenty of options in the draft pool for that. Logue seems ready to go and his combine results were immense! Should we take 14 and 17 to the draft I'd say we go for Logue and Powell-Pepper

Callum Twomey on Logue at the combine;

The West Australian key defender was a star at the combine, recording a 9:58 minute 3km time trial and being the equal winner of the beep test. He matched the endurance efforts with being top-10 in the repeat sprints and taking out one of the running vertical jumps. The weekend at Etihad Stadium proved what many had seen coming for a little while: that Logue is one of the most bankable big defenders in the pool. He could play straight away, such is his body size, maturity and athletic profile. Logue is a good intercept marker and helps out teammates, too.

I just have that sneaky feeling he'll be a very good player!

 

[Olian]

Goodesie was a 17 year old. Each Club was allowed one 17 year old draft selection. We used ours at 43 but we could have used it at any later stage because we were the last to use our selection and Goodesie would still have been there. The real issue is how the other Clubs missed out before us with their selections. We got lucky. We got real lucky.

Goodes had played soccer up to 14 years of age. So he was still an unknown compared to others.

 

[Vin Rogue]

Now that we've generously made our chief rival better, I'd really love to hear from the club how they plan on improving our team for 2017.

Because for now, we're going backwards.

Calm down. We gave away the midfielder we could most afford to lose. If we'd been able to keep him at the price point we offered then we would all be happy ( except Tom, who felt he was worth more coin.) I think that the large number of young players we introduced to regular senior footy is sensational. That they were able to take the Club to a minor premiership is reason for massive optimism. The upside for these young players and our team is huge. The struggle - and we are witnessing it right now, is how to keep the gems after you unearth them. Cos we have some real gems. Backwards??? Please explain how Tom Mitchell is anywhere near our best player or near being the best prospect over the next five years and beyond?

 

[Vin Rogue]

Let's face it, Sam Mitchell is getting the ROK treatment, Clarko just knifed him in a nicer way.

Reckon it's the coaching role that Mitchell is wanting. For WestCoast??? Potentially a very cheap game controller for at least one year. And he brings umps with him. At least he talks to them a lot.

 

[scaryness]

Hope we upgrafe our picks

14, 17 for a top 10

I think we should keep 14 and 17. Two picks are better than one this year.

 

[Olian]

Now that we've generously made our chief rival better, I'd really love to hear from the club how they plan on improving our team for 2017.

Because for now, we're going backwards.

Going backwards with two first round selections?

 

[YorshireSwan]

I think we should keep 14 and 17. Two picks are better than one this year.

I'm thinking this too, given our history of first round choices I'd prefer we hedge our bets and have a double chance rather than throwing it all at another Towers type selection.

 

[Deccas]

Now that we've generously made our chief rival better, I'd really love to hear from the club how they plan on improving our team for 2017.

Because for now, we're going backwards.

our club improves with the natural improvement we get out of Jones Heeney Mills Hewett Robinson Loyd Aliir Papley all having another season adn finals experience under their belts. Natural improvement is moving this list along quite nicely imo.

 

[ashep]

Calm down. We gave away the midfielder we could most afford to lose. If we'd been able to keep him at the price point we offered then we would all be happy ( except Tom, who felt he was worth more coin.) I think that the large number of young players we introduced to regular senior footy is sensational. That they were able to take the Club to a minor premiership is reason for massive optimism. The upside for these young players and our team is huge. The struggle - and we are witnessing it right now, is how to keep the gems after you unearth them. Cos we have some real gems. Backwards??? Please explain how Tom Mitchell is anywhere near our best player or near being the best prospect over the next five years and beyond?

Going backwards with two first round selections?

We've given away one of the best ball winners in the competition for a couple of picks.

Unless we can somehow draft another Mills who comes in and is a star in year 1 - not bloody likely at 14 - our list will be worse next year than it was in 2016.

Not sure how that can be argued to be honest.

 

[Donza]

We've given away one of the best contested ball winners in the competition for a couple of picks.

Unless we can somehow draft another Mills who comes in and is a star in year 1 - not bloody likely at 14 - our list will be worse next year than it was in 2016.

Not sure how that can be argued to be honest.

One of the best contested ball winners?
what??

 

[ashep]

One of the best contested ball winners?
what??

Whoops. Meant in general, not just contested.

Either way, unless you're arguing that pick 14 will be a better player than Tom Mitchell in 2017, our list has gone backwards.

Yes I understand that our kids will get better, but players like Grundy, McVeigh, Jack, Tippett (pre-injury) and even Buddy will probably go slightly backwards in terms of production so when you look at it player for player, we haven't improved.

 

[Vin Rogue]

We've given away one of the best contested ball winners in the competition for a couple of picks.

Unless we can somehow draft another Mills who comes in and is a star in year 1 - not bloody likely at 14 - our list will be worse next year than it was in 2016.

Not sure how that can be argued to be honest.

Let me try. If Titch is one of the best contested ball winners in the competition, how then would you describe JPK, Hanners and Parker? And what if Heeney is Titch's replacement in the midfield? Will he be a gain or a loss in comparison to Tom?
Mills will not replace Titch - but I am happy to see that you are open to any new star replacing Titch. Watch this space. Leonardis and or Newman could both be new guns introduced next year. We do not need our draft pick 14 to be an instantly successful replacement for Titch.
And when our team regains Reid and AJ from long term injury, and Allir's continued rise - how will they be cause to see us going backwards?
Tom Mitchell is great at getting his hands on the ball - what happens after that........we have all sighed and shaken our heads. He has some baggage which Hawthorn may or may not be able to fix. The jury is still out.

 

[Donza]

Whoops. Meant in general, not just contested.

Either way, unless you're arguing that pick 14 will be a better player than Tom Mitchell in 2017, our list has gone backwards.

Well danger went for a pick 9 no?

It doesn't work like that though does it?
Pick 14 can be an investment in something different. A decent first round draft than can be moulded into something..or even dropped straight into first grade if they perform well pre season. The coaches aren't averse to doing so.
The swans have three A-grade ball winners in JPK, Parker and Hanners. Then Mitchell became superfluous.

 

[cinderella man]

Goodesie was a 17 year old. Each Club was allowed one 17 year old draft selection. We used ours at 43 but we could have used it at any later stage because we were the last to use our selection and Goodesie would still have been there. The real issue is how the other Clubs missed out before us with their selections. We got lucky. We got real lucky.

And a really lazy ***** ! Also helped him slide a bit. Turned himself into a legend because he combined extraordinary ability with professionalism,hard work, application, attitude & courage.

 

[Donza]

Let me try. If Titch is one of the best contested ball winners in the competition, how then would you describe JPK, Hanners and Parker? And what if Heeney is Titch's replacement in the midfield? Will he be a gain or a loss in comparison to Tom?
Mills will not replace Titch - but I am happy to see that you are open to any new star replacing Titch. Watch this space. Leonardis and or Newman could both be new guns introduced next year. We do not need our draft pick 14 to be an instantly successful replacement for Titch.
And when our team regains Reid and AJ from long term injury, and Allir's continued rise - how will they be cause to see us going backwards?
Tom Mitchell is great at getting his hands on the ball - what happens after that........we have all sighed and shaken our heads. He has some baggage which Hawthorn may or may not be able to fix. The jury is still out.

Yup.
25% of his happy handballs hit the mark.

 

[bungwahl]

Whoops. Meant in general, not just contested.

Either way, unless you're arguing that pick 14 will be a better player than Tom Mitchell in 2017, our list has gone backwards.

Certainly the player we bring in at pick 14 won't start out better than Mitchell, but I don't think that necessarily harms our list for 2017.

Our midfield this season was very same-same.. predominantly inside, one paced, average disposal, etc. Tom Mitchell was behind three AA midfielders and losing him may actually enable us to change things up a bit. Maybe it gives us the chance to bring in some more speed or a player with better foot skills?

 

[brad cooper]

We've given away one of the best ball winners in the competition for a couple of picks.

Unless we can somehow draft another Mills who comes in and is a star in year 1 - not bloody likely at 14 - our list will be worse next year than it was in 2016.

Not sure how that can be argued to be honest.

Ill happily argue it.

Geelong lost the best in the competition at the end of 2010 after losing a prelim to the eventual premiers collingwood who were the youngest team in the modern era to win a flag.

Geelong didnt trade in anyone and their draft picks netted not one player who made a significant impact the following season.

Yet geelong went on to win the flag in 2011 beating the same side that smashed them in the previous years prelim. With a major reason being the natural improvement in players like Duncan, Christensen and hawkins. As well as the existing established players taking up the slack left by Abletts departure.

We can do the same