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2016 Non-Crows AFL Discussion - Cont. in Part 2 (link in OP)

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Can't agree. Even in a legitimate program, you are doing a series of injections of supplements. You absolutely would document that - shit, they'd be documenting the number of sit-ups they do, yet alone an intravenous supplement program.

Not really. In a high level deliberate doping scenario you would be leaving a set of documents akin to the fake set of books. The actual regimen wouldn't be getting recorded where it could be found and used as evidence against the program. Kane McGoodwin is right, no documentation is an admission of guilt. The question I'd pose is who would be stupid enough to knowingly document illegal injections. The fact that the records were destroyed suggests that the Dons wouldn't knowingly keep such records available to be used against them. I don't recall the Armstrong case identifying a complete lack of documentary evidence regarding their supplement program.
 
Nikki, do you have a prediction as to what you think will be the likely outcome?

Imo, anything less than 1 year bans would be a joke

There is more talk this time about the Dons' preparing for the worst given the Afl no longer have control...

In what way are the Dons preparing for the worst? Is there whispers that they'Ve started talking to next level players already? What more could they actually do. Lose players, replace players.
 
How is this supposed fake crowd noise any different from them playing a backing track over their little INXS sing-song?

The crowd is pretty quiet until the chorus anyway, particularly when they were losing last season. Many still don't know the words to the whole thing properly.
 

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In what way are the Dons preparing for the worst? Is there whispers that they'Ve started talking to next level players already? What more could they actually do. Lose players, replace players.
They have mentioned that they are planning for both scenarios... Whereas previously they were only entertaining the not guilty... Because imo the Afl had informed them.
 
They have mentioned that they are planning for both scenarios... Whereas previously they were only entertaining the not guilty... Because imo the Afl had informed them.

What led to Petrenko and others playing preseason games if they were guaranteed the all clear?

Edit - I think, from memory, it was a foot in both camps scenario. Didn't they 'serve' a few months from end of the year to the first games they played. If they were found guilty and got the greatest discount, then they were already done.
 
I will possibly be as clueless as the rest of us initially ;) Although not as clueless as the idiots on 5AA just now. They think even if the players are found guilty, they have been punished enough and any punishments would be directed towards the club admin. Um nope, that isn't how this hearing works. The admin haven't been charged with anything because they can't be under the WADA code. They are the ones ultimately responsible for what happened at Essendon, but it is the way of the code that they can't be punished and the onus is purely on the athlete (this has changed a bit with the new code in place where support staff can also finally face appropriate penalties in relation to an athlete doping).

Also the players have never had a guilty finding, so if they are, this will be the first time a punishment can be metered out to them. There might some reduction in penalty because of the couple of weeks they decided not to play but keep training, but.. *shrugs* who knows what is going to happen?
This drugs drama is the first in a "Team Sport" internationally .....so it's a test case and likely to become a precedent for future team infractions

Hence the importance of this case to WADA, which Essendon have overlooked as it operates in the AFL fishbowl .......put simply WADA cannot afford to lose this case, particularly using "no records kept" defense.

Furthermore if found guilty, the eyes of the worlds sporting organizations will be watching for the penalty .....IMO players haven't been helpful to ASADA, supporting whilst not actively participating in the various legal manoeuvres.

WADA as with most first time industry penalties, will want to send a VERY STRONG message to other sporting teams in all sports worldwide ......Essendon may be the unfortunate recipient of that strong penalty

You have to think this thru the eyes of WADA Internationally ...not little ol AFL
 
What led to Petrenko and others playing preseason games if they were guaranteed the all clear?

Edit - I think, from memory, it was a foot in both camps scenario. Didn't they 'serve' a few months from end of the year to the first games they played. If they were found guilty and got the greatest discount, then they were already done.
Wasn't it something like the ban would apply from the last game they played onwards? So by skipping preseason games the ban would apply from their last game of 2014 and the 3-4 months from preseason would already be included as time served?
 
Wasn't it something like the ban would apply from the last game they played onwards? So by skipping preseason games the ban would apply from their last game of 2014 and the 3-4 months from preseason would already be included as time served?

Think so. They missed September to round 1 which was in excess of 6 months which is 2 years divided by 2 and then again. Which I think is how the best discount works. There was the potential issue with Fletcher and another playing in the international rules which could have resulted in in-season bans because they didn't complete the full 6 months. I think.
 

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One year ban is my tip

Served Nov-Dec each year for the next six seasons

Sure the AFL would love that but I think the ban setting is handed down by CAS or WADA as it is at that level and has been taken away from the local agency originally responsible. ;)
 
WADA as with most first time industry penalties, will want to send a VERY STRONG message to other sporting teams in all sports worldwide ......Essendon may be the deserving recipient of that strong penalty

You have to think this thru the eyes of WADA Internationally ...not little ol AFL
fixed that for you
 
This drugs drama is the first in a "Team Sport" internationally .....so it's a test case and likely to become a precedent for future team infractions

Hence the importance of this case to WADA, which Essendon have overlooked as it operates in the AFL fishbowl .......put simply WADA cannot afford to lose this case, particularly using "no records kept" defense.

Furthermore if found guilty, the eyes of the worlds sporting organizations will be watching for the penalty .....IMO players haven't been helpful to ASADA, supporting whilst not actively participating in the various legal manoeuvres.

WADA as with most first time industry penalties, will want to send a VERY STRONG message to other sporting teams in all sports worldwide ......Essendon may be the unfortunate recipient of that strong penalty

You have to think this thru the eyes of WADA Internationally ...not little ol AFL

I must admit that I'm not familiar with the sporting "court" hierarchy, but in normal situations "appeals" are not a re-trying of a case because you didn't like the original result, but must be on specific grounds, like procedural errors, etc. Is there anything different in this case?
 

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Funny how the only people to talk about this are Tealsters here.

Whatever keeps you guys happy...........


Personally don't see how it would be a big deal anyway. Only discussed by you guys as you hold on to that "crown" of loudest crowd in the Universe so tightly. You guys get so upset when the contrary is suggested. Almost as if you guys are upset we are cheating in some sort of contest about this.

End of the day our supporters drowned out the siren, and that annoyed Eddie.

Remember when they got the Guinness world record people to come in and measure the sound level and didn't get close to the world record, they were so confident they measured it live on channel 7.
 
Seriously, the fake crowd noises were 100% real. I'm not sure if they still do it but I have heard it myself. Even you are in disbelief. I heard them at the second showdown in 2014, a crows home game. I was in the southern stand, in the nosebleeds where I heard the same cheering noises and applause occurring regularly, appearing to come from a speaker nearby and sounding the same each time. I initially dismissed it as I too was in disbelief until 3/4 time when I went to join my friend who couldn't handle it up the top due to vertigo (I thought he was just being weak personally) as he had chosen to watch the game standing at ground level behind the goals. When I approached him, the first thing he said to me was "did you hear the fake crowd noise coming over the PA?" and at that point I realised it was real. I couldn't believe it as I was not used to such a non organic atmosphere. I can only assume crows fans who haven't heard it are either too in to the game, in denial or too adapted to a fabricated environment to pay attention to it. No one I have spoken too about it has ever heard of anything like that occurring anywhere else. In a way, fake crowd noises sort of explains the need for a chant night. These things also fall in line with other innovations from the crows, such as last years 12 days of crows Christmas video. Whilst the natural instinct from you guys would be to now rattle off various comparisons to these things from the PAFC in some sort of response to this post, I'm not sure much comes close to the things I have mentioned, regardless of what angle it is spun from when described. Anyway, I don't usually hang out here and am probably unwanted so I'm off now.
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Haha how long did this shit post take you to write though
 
I must admit that I'm not familiar with the sporting "court" hierarchy, but in normal situations "appeals" are not a re-trying of a case because you didn't like the original result, but must be on specific grounds, like procedural errors, etc. Is there anything different in this case?
No ...just a court of appeal to a higher international authority .....no further appeals available after Tuesdays results
 
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