Training 2017/2018 Pre-season Thread

[1970crow]

What are the chances of one of our players being in contention for the rising star this year

These are the sports bets odds

$6
Witherden & Graham
$9
Darcy & Raynor
$10
LDU
$14
Glass & Florent
$15
Brayshaw, Dow & Bolton
$17
Settlefied & Cerra
$21
Francis, Zurhaar, Larkey, Brown, Higgins, Stephenson, Daicos, Coffield, Partington, Mutimer, Hayes, Clark & Marshall.
$23
Naughton, McKay & Stengel.

Slim you'd think. To win the rising star, you'd need to play at least 2/3's of the year. That's probably not going to happen for any of our first or second year players. I'd guess that the only possibility amongst our lot to play enough games would be Gallucci. If he gets an early crack replacing CC in the forward line, he could possibly hold his spot for a fair portion of the year. Whether he's value at $51 is another matter.

 

[ad victoriam]

What are the chances of one of our players being in contention for the rising star this year

These are the sports bets odds

$6
Witherden & Graham
$9
Darcy & Raynor
$10
LDU
$14
Glass & Florent
$15
Brayshaw, Dow & Bolton
$17
Settlefied & Cerra
$21
Francis, Zurhaar, Larkey, Brown, Higgins, Stephenson, Daicos, Coffield, Partington, Mutimer, Hayes, Clark & Marshall.
$23
Naughton, McKay & Stengel.

Gallucci and Doedee are good money on $51.

 

[the universal]

He just likes sooking.

More like.

 

[Golumless]

No one can afford 22 Matt crouches there is a salary cap which is why there are all abilities in a team

That was more directed at role/player type seeing matt crouch is as pigeonholed as Atkins is.

 

[Bring back Bas]

What are the chances of one of our players being in contention for the rising star this year

These are the sports bets odds

$6
Witherden & Graham
$9
Darcy & Raynor
$10
LDU
$14
Glass & Florent
$15
Brayshaw, Dow & Bolton
$17
Settlefied & Cerra
$21
Francis, Zurhaar, Larkey, Brown, Higgins, Stephenson, Daicos, Coffield, Partington, Mutimer, Hayes, Clark & Marshall.
$23
Naughton, McKay & Stengel.

I am hopeful that Doedee can put together a season similar to what Mills produced in 2016 when he won the Rising Star Award. Mills averaged 18.6 disposals, 4.8 marks and 3.4 rebound 50's. The rising star judges seem to favour players who provide a steady contribution and hold their place, particularly in a strong team (evidenced by Mills and McGrath in the last two years). Doedee currently has his preferred position in the side available to him and will probably be playing in one of the top teams - all he needs to do is provide a contribution to the team and he will be a good chance. He may be handicapped because he is in his third season competing against first year players.

 

[marty36]

I am hopeful that Doedee can put together a season similar to what Mills produced in 2016 when he won the Rising Star Award. Mills averaged 18.6 disposals, 4.8 marks and 3.4 rebound 50's. The rising star judges seem to favour players who provide a steady contribution and hold their place, particularly in a strong team (evidenced by Mills and McGrath in the last two years). Doedee currently has his preferred position in the side available to him and will probably be playing in one of the top teams - all he needs to do is provide a contribution to the team and he will be a good chance. He may be handicapped because he is in his third season competing against first year players.

Wouldn’t that position be up for grabs with Cheney Kelly Doedee Gibson keath


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[Mego Red]

Wouldn’t that position be up for grabs with Cheney Kelly Doedee Gibson keath


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Kelly and Gibson play different positions. Doedee's position is his, and 22 good games could absolutely win him the Rising Star.

 

[arrowman]

It's a weird thing because if there is no option, you are better copping the holding the ball then taking a poor kicking option seeing it gives another couple of seconds to the defensive side. Atkins goes to the extreme with this and ignores 50/50s.

That hopefully corrects itself in the next 20-40 games.

I hesitate to say this, but maybe Rat needs a little more Douglas in his game by which I mean, Dougy may not be as good in traffic, but he is good IMO at the clearance kick from congestion, and to some advantage.

 

[marty36]

Kelly and Gibson play different positions. Doedee's position is his, and 22 good games could absolutely win him the Rising Star.

I guess time will tell

But pretty sure Gibson could play back pocket against a team like the tigers

I doubt a player who has never played in the AFL has a mortgage on a position unless your delusional


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[Scorpus]

So why did we play Lever and Kelly all of last year if it’s not needed then?

We preferred a defensive unit with more lockdown players. I'm suggesting a defensive unit with fewer lockdown players and more attack.

The reason for this is we don't have Brodie Smith in 2018, and even when we did have Smith, when he was shut down or off his game we massively struggled to transition the ball out of defence. It's all well and good to have 4-5 players that can defend a man, but if you can't get the ball out of the area, you're stuck having to use these 4-5 lockdown players over and over again as the ball rebounds straight back into the defensive area.

In an ideal world, we'd have a Kelly-like medium utility/defender who can also rebound with creativity. We don't have that sort of player, so I'd rather we prioritize rebound over having a fourth-string lockdown defender.

Plus with an appropriate player in that role, good team defence and good defensive structures, I think the loss of a lockdown defender can be mitigated more easily than our lack of creative defensive exits when our back is against the wall

 

[Coopers]

It's a weird thing because if there is no option, you are better copping the holding the ball then taking a poor kicking option seeing it gives another couple of seconds to the defensive side. Atkins goes to the extreme with this and ignores 50/50s.

That hopefully corrects itself in the next 20-40 games.

Atkins and the whole team were way better at this than previous years in 2017.

You are way better off flirting with the HTB decision cos they rarely pay it properly anymore, so you may as well hold onto it for as long as possible. Also just giving it to the other team is a worse turnover than being brought down with it. Atkins does the right thing.

 

[Mego Red]

I guess time will tell

But pretty sure Gibson could play back pocket against a team like the tigers

I doubt a player who has never played in the AFL has a mortgage on a position unless your delusional


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Graham has only played five or so AFL games, is competing with six to eight players for his position - and he's supposedly a Rising Star favourite.

Doedee is the best intercept player in the SANFL at 19, which is exactly the role of the player we need to replace.

 

[azza77]

We preferred a defensive unit with more lockdown players. I'm suggesting a defensive unit with fewer lockdown players and more attack.

The reason for this is we don't have Brodie Smith in 2018, and even when we did have Smith, when he was shut down or off his game we massively struggled to transition the ball out of defence. It's all well and good to have 4-5 players that can defend a man, but if you can't get the ball out of the area, you're stuck having to use these 4-5 lockdown players over and over again as the ball rebounds straight back into the defensive area.

In an ideal world, we'd have a Kelly-like medium utility/defender who can also rebound with creativity. We don't have that sort of player, so I'd rather we prioritize rebound over having a fourth-string lockdown defender.

Plus with an appropriate player in that role, good team defence and good defensive structures, I think the loss of a lockdown defender can be mitigated more easily than our lack of creative defensive exits when our back is against the wall

I don’t disagree with what you’ve said, but why can’t we use Kelly, along with Talia and Hartigan as our main lockdown defenders. Kelly can take the small forward as he has done in the past.

Let Doedee play loose, and allow Brown and Laird to attack more, with the help of Seedsman or Milera.

Seedsman was actually very good for Pied at HBF when fit. Few short memories around here. If he had a full PS I’m backing Seedsman for a pretty good year.

 

[marty36]

Graham has only played five or so AFL games, is competing with six to eight players for his position - and he's supposedly a Rising Star favourite.

Doedee is the best intercept player in the SANFL at 19, which is exactly the role of the player we need to replace.

Graham played in a AFL GF kicked three goals and held Sloane to 4 possessions for a half of footy

Graham might let Doedee carry his boots


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[Thetrader15]

Graham has only played five or so AFL games, is competing with six to eight players for his position - and he's supposedly a Rising Star favourite.

Doedee is the best intercept player in the SANFL at 19, which is exactly the role of the player we need to replace.

Agrre, but he is still only 19 and Done doesn't like (based on evidence) giving teenagers an extended run at it (Lever the exception)

 

[marty36]

Agrre, but he is still only 19 and Done doesn't like (based on evidence) giving teenagers an extended run at it (Lever the exception)

Why would he give Lever such a run

I can tell you, it’s because he was an outstanding talent

Why won’t he give others because they don’t have that talent


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[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

We preferred a defensive unit with more lockdown players. I'm suggesting a defensive unit with fewer lockdown players and more attack.

The reason for this is we don't have Brodie Smith in 2018, and even when we did have Smith, when he was shut down or off his game we massively struggled to transition the ball out of defence. It's all well and good to have 4-5 players that can defend a man, but if you can't get the ball out of the area, you're stuck having to use these 4-5 lockdown players over and over again as the ball rebounds straight back into the defensive area.

In an ideal world, we'd have a Kelly-like medium utility/defender who can also rebound with creativity. We don't have that sort of player, so I'd rather we prioritize rebound over having a fourth-string lockdown defender.

Plus with an appropriate player in that role, good team defence and good defensive structures, I think the loss of a lockdown defender can be mitigated more easily than our lack of creative defensive exits when our back is against the wall

Smith hasn't missed many games over the last few years but when he has we've lost every one

 

[ad victoriam]

Smith hasn't missed many games over the last few years but when he has we've lost every one

Need to check again.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Sure you don't want 22 MCrouch's but you also don't want a bloke that does everything possible to avoid body contact. This is my biggest criticism of rat and why he he struggles in the tight congested finals atmosphere type of games.

I also don't subscribe to the view by many on this board that he has an elite leg. I'll also add that his decision making and delivery in tight games has cost us dearly.....the Sydney game at home last year is a classic example.

He's still developing and pushing further with his prep and running

Plenty to play out yet , don't wipe out a guy who has talent and is a need for the side

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Smith hasn't missed many games over the last few years but when he has we've lost every one

except for those finals we won without him

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

except for those finals we won without him

Oh yeah...

That final means that we're 1-4 without him over the last three seasons. Not enough games to draw a strong conclusion (hopefully).

Without checking though it feels like when he plays badly we often are poor.

 

[Redleg Crow]

How we deal with the absence of Smith will go a big way to defining our season IMO.

TBH I have no idea what they’ll do. The “try to get someone to do his role” strategy seems a thin wallpaper that will reveal a big crack at some point

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Oh yeah...

That final means that we're 1-4 without him over the last three seasons. Not enough games to draw a strong conclusion (hopefully).

Without checking though it feels like when he plays badly we often are poor.

he only played 10 minutes of the qualifier so I would count that too.

We're a better team than wee were 2 seasons ago, and we have the entire pre-season to come up with a plan without him.

 

[marty36]

How we deal with the absence of Smith will go a big way to defining our season IMO.

TBH I have no idea what they’ll do. The “try to get someone to do his role” strategy seems a thin wallpaper that will reveal a big crack at some point

Would you replace him with Gibbs Sloane Hampton or Milera


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[Bearded Clam]

Would you replace him with Gibbs Sloane Hampton or Milera


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Pat Wilson should be in that list