List Mgmt. 2017 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[coniglio_number1]

Reckon we may come knocking again at the end of this year - remember us?

There is a fair bit of talk on our board (fuelled by a very in the know poster) that we are big into Hopper & Matt Kennedy.

So I guess I have a couple of questions....

1) What do you value those two at, both individually and as a package?
2) Are there any contracted players you'll likely want off your books at the end of the year?

If our dealings at the end of this year are anything like what has gone down over the past couple of years, we'll likely have our main targets & be willing to take on a contract (think Palmer, Lamb & Sumner) to get those targets at a slight discount.

From our perspective I have no doubt we'll be looking to keep our 2017 1st round pick, but we will be open to moving some other pieces around to get the required picks to on-trade through to you. I also would not completely rule out moving on our 2018 1st.

We are now at standard list size so the fire sale is over but if you really need some players we have Joel Patfull, Tendai M'Zungu, matt de Boer and stevie J all available

 

[Turbocat]

Reckon we may come knocking again at the end of this year - remember us?

There is a fair bit of talk on our board (fuelled by a very in the know poster) that we are big into Hopper & Matt Kennedy.

So I guess I have a couple of questions....

1) What do you value those two at, both individually and as a package?
2) Are there any contracted players you'll likely want off your books at the end of the year?

If our dealings at the end of this year are anything like what has gone down over the past couple of years, we'll likely have our main targets & be willing to take on a contract (think Palmer, Lamb & Sumner) to get those targets at a slight discount.

From our perspective I have no doubt we'll be looking to keep our 2017 1st round pick, but we will be open to moving some other pieces around to get the required picks to on-trade through to you. I also would not completely rule out moving on our 2018 1st.

One thing to remember is that you have gained R1's from us the last couple of years to grease the wheels... how do you make it happen this year..I might be wrong , id suspect GWS would like points this year rather than 18.

 

[coniglio_number1]

One thing to remember is that you have gained R1's from us the last couple of years to grease the wheels... how do you make it happen this year..I might be wrong , id suspect GWS would like points this year rather than 18.

With brander, spargo, paech et al no longer available to us we no longer require points desperately

 

[Colonial]

I'll give it a shot.

Reckon we may come knocking again at the end of this year - remember us?

Id be stunned if you dont.

There is a fair bit of talk on our board (fuelled by a very in the know poster) that we are big into Hopper & Matt Kennedy.

Id be stunned if there wasnt

1) What do you value those two at, both individually and as a package?

We dont want them to go and i dont see it as likely.

But for both you would be looking at 3 1st rounders and probably high end ones.

Neither have lost anything since they were drafted and we have developed them so less of a risk for the Blues.

2) Are there any contracted players you'll likely want off your books at the end of the year?

Afraid not. I dont see any players we would want, and nor you would want to give up that are any good anyway

If our dealings at the end of this year are anything like what has gone down over the past couple of years, we'll likely have our main targets & be willing to take on a contract (think Palmer, Lamb & Sumner) to get those targets at a slight discount.

We dont have an ever shrinking (or collapsing in the case of '16) cap and list size.
No more cheapies.

From our perspective I have no doubt we'll be looking to keep our 2017 1st round pick, but we will be open to moving some other pieces around to get the required picks to on-trade through to you. I also would not completely rule out moving on our 2018 1st.

I dont know where you would get the picks to do it.

You cant package a ton of 2nd rounders anymore as its no benefit to us.


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[Turbocat]

With brander, spargo, paech et al no longer available to us we no longer require points desperately

Fair point..you would know your group better than I. No others that might pop up after the champs games?

So 18 pick from Carlton may appeal?

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Which delusional fantasies?

That you're going to get Hopper and Kennedy

 

[coniglio_number1]

Fair point..you would know your group better than I. No others that might pop up after the champs games?

So 18 pick from Carlton may appeal?

Our best academy kid is Powell and he is rated as a second rounder so we have that covered. We will see if any high quality players leave us but I can't see hopper leaving

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

That you're going to get Hopper and Kennedy

TBF, both Hopper and Kennedy are out of contract this year and we can blow you guys out of the water salary wise. Its not even a contest. Secondly, when you guys have a fully fit list to choose from, I'm not sure either of them are guaranteed your best 22 spots. We can guarantee that to both of them.

 

[Orange Agent]

This 'in the know' carlton poster sure gets a lot of stuff wrong for some internet person who is held in such regard that people will just re-hash their crap over every board on the site.

 

[Colonial]

TBF, both Hopper and Kennedy are out of contract this year and we can blow you guys out of the water salary wise. Its not even a contest. Secondly, when you guys have a fully fit list to choose from, I'm not sure either of them are guaranteed your best 22 spots. We can guarantee that to both of them.

To be fair.

You cant blow us out of the water salary wise. You can offer more dollars, but what else do you offer? Success? Nope.

Hopper is best 22 with a full list and Kennedy isnt far off in my estimation. Sooo.....

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[Colonial]

This 'in the know' carlton poster sure gets a lot of stuff wrong for some internet person who is held in such regard that people will just re-hash their crap over every board on the site.

Supposedly our entire list, since our inception, all grew up as Blues supporters...

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[coniglio_number1]

Supposedly our entire list, since our inception, all grew up as Blues supporters...

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"Just get me here" - Tom Boyd

 

[Ellie Aquitaine]

TBF, both Hopper and Kennedy are out of contract this year and we can blow you guys out of the water salary wise. Its not even a contest. Secondly, when you guys have a fully fit list to choose from, I'm not sure either of them are guaranteed your best 22 spots. We can guarantee that to both of them.

In 2018, I'd be surprised if Hopper wasn't an automatic Best 22. If Smith leaves then Kennedy's future is much brighter.

You'll get one, maybe, but not both.

And can we program the post that you're looking at Taranto, Setterfield and Perryman for April 2018?

imagine how good our NEAFL side would have been with Cripps and Weitering!

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

In 2018, I'd be surprised if Hopper wasn't an automatic Best 22. If Smith leaves then Kennedy's future is much brighter.

You'll get one, maybe, but not both.

And can we program the post that you're looking at Taranto, Setterfield and Perryman for April 2018?

imagine how good our NEAFL side would have been with Cripps and Weitering!

Don't know about that, but we will certainly take Shiel off your hands at the end of 2019 when he is a free agent. Thanks in advance.

 

[Colonial]

Don't know about that, but we will certainly take Shiel off your hands at the end of 2019 when he is a free agent. Thanks in advance.

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[BrisbaneCFC]

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TBH, I'm not sure why you are being so dismissive. You guys have a lot of talent, and will continue to have a lot of talent that cant get into your best 22, or who will be looking for more money. GWS are still ripe for the picking and will continue to be for a few years yet.

 

[Danny88]

TBH, I'm not sure why you are being so dismissive. You guys have a lot of talent, and will continue to have a lot of talent that cant get into your best 22, or who will be looking for more money. GWS are still ripe for the picking and will continue to be for a few years yet.

That's true my friend but it's not as simple as here is money come play here. You need to offer more than that. Things like club culture, the promise of success and off field support are just as important. We have a recent history of providing those things hence we can keep people like shiel and cogs for unders.... if we are both being honest with ourselves can Carlton offer that? I mean if they aren't best 22 by the end of the year I get it (I think they will be) but I just can't see them walking out if they are getting a game

 

[Colonial]

TBH, I'm not sure why you are being so dismissive. You guys have a lot of talent, and will continue to have a lot of talent that cant get into your best 22, or who will be looking for more money. GWS are still ripe for the picking and will continue to be for a few years yet.

Lol

Yeah um not being dismissive.

Actually replied when posters come in with with day dream deals.

Your original comment was a joke and i replied in kind with a gif.

Shiel is best 22 by the way. He doesnt struggle to get in. May need to know about our players before coming after them. It helps.

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[Bokonon_]

TBH, I'm not sure why you are being so dismissive. You guys have a lot of talent, and will continue to have a lot of talent that cant get into your best 22, or who will be looking for more money. GWS are still ripe for the picking and will continue to be for a few years yet.

I think you're missing the point. Shiel particularly is more than a commodity to us. In pragmatic terms he has real value as a marketing tool, and growing is a priority for our club. Even more than that he defines us in a way and has signed twice without fuss and without considering other offerrs.
Dont expect a positive response if you claim he's going to leave, we know it's rubbish.
Some players will go and we wanted to keep Marchbank for example, but had to trade because he wanted to go. That's life in a professional sport. But you're dreaming with him.

 

[Andre the Giant]

That's true my friend but it's not as simple as here is money come play here. You need to offer more than that. Things like club culture, the promise of success and off field support are just as important. We have a recent history of providing those things hence we can keep people like shiel and cogs for unders.... if we are both being honest with ourselves can Carlton offer that? I mean if they aren't best 22 by the end of the year I get it (I think they will be) but I just can't see them walking out if they are getting a game

I'll go a little further.

Carlton is a basket case of a club, they are made up of a bunch of cast offs and 2 time error pick ups, hacks, and a splatter of genuine quality.

They are so far away from being a contender it would be career suicide to join them.

I'd say conservatively if they nail every draft pick and trade (with SOS in charge an impossibility) they are a minimum of 5 years away from being a legitimate contender.

Apart from being miles behind GWS, Western Bulldogs, Adelaide and Geelong they are also behind Gold Coast, St Kilda and Melbourne in their development and will need to wait for all these teams to peak before offering a challenge.

Unless a player was an idiot like Marchbank or unwanted like Pickett they would have to be outside their heads or completely motivated by money to go near that slum team.

I'd be shocked if any of our genuine stars like Shiel would even entertain it (as free agents) unless they were looking for a superannuation pay off.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Lol

Yeah um not being dismissive.

Actually replied when posters come in with with day dream deals.

Your original comment was a joke and i replied in kind with a gif.

Shiel is best 22 by the way. He doesnt struggle to get in. May need to know about our players before coming after them. It helps.

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You seem to be missing the obvious with Shiel, the well known boyhood Carlton supporter, who only re - signed with you guys for two years, will be a free agent when his contract runs out, in his prime as a player. Ripe for us to take him off your hands at the end of 2019 right about the time we will have turned over our list, had four years of bringing quality draft picks into the club and will certainly be looking at pushing well into the 8 and finals in 2020. Its strange that you have dismissed the possibility out of hand.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I'll go a little further.

Carlton is a basket case of a club, they are made up of a bunch of cast offs and 2 time error pick ups, hacks, and a splatter of genuine quality.

They are so far away from being a contender it would be career suicide to join them.

I'd say conservatively if they nail every draft pick and trade (with SOS in charge an impossibility) they are a minimum of 5 years away from being a legitimate contender.

Apart from being miles behind GWS, Western Bulldogs, Adelaide and Geelong they are also behind Gold Coast, St Kilda and Melbourne in their development and will need to wait for all these teams to peak before offering a challenge.

Unless a player was an idiot like Marchbank or unwanted like Pickett they would have to be outside their heads or completely motivated by money to go near that slum team.

I'd be shocked if any of our genuine stars like Shiel would even entertain it (as free agents) unless they were looking for a superannuation pay off.

Its obvious we are behind GWS, Adelaide, WB who are all in premiership windows, Geelong, who have been perennial finals contenders for a decade, that's not up for debate. Its also unsurprising we are behind GC, who have reset their list after the handouts the AFL gave them at their inclusion to the AFL, and Melbourne and St Kilda, both whom are probably two to three years ahead of Carlton, who are only into their second full year of rebuilding, we haven't even finished the list turnover yet. I'm not really sure what your point is considering we are in year two of rebuild.

 

[Colonial]

You seem to be missing the obvious with Shiel, the well known boyhood Carlton supporter, who only re - signed with you guys for two years, will be a free agent when his contract runs out, in his prime as a player.
.

****ing lol

Everyone of our players since inception has been a blues fan according to you lot.
He signed for 2 years. He does that. Most players do that.
Doesnt mean he will throw it all away to play for a bottom club that is struggling with every teams cast offs.

Ripe for us to take him off your hands at the end of 2019 right about the time we will have turned over our list, had four years of bringing quality draft picks into the club and will certainly be looking at pushing well into the 8 and finals in 2020. Its strange that you have dismissed the possibility out of hand.

Lol. Because it wont be happening. The Blues have our 2nds as their base of a squad.
Why would Shiel leave us, a club he has helped build and is part of the fabric, while in finals contention and go to a club at the bottom of the ladder?

It makes absolutely no sense.

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[Ichabod Noodle]

You seem to be missing the obvious with Shiel, the well known boyhood Carlton supporter, who only re - signed with you guys for two years, will be a free agent when his contract runs out, in his prime as a player. Ripe for us to take him off your hands at the end of 2019 right about the time we will have turned over our list, had four years of bringing quality draft picks into the club and will certainly be looking at pushing well into the 8 and finals in 2020. Its strange that you have dismissed the possibility out of hand.

No - I think it is you who seems to be missing the obvious with Shiel.

“I’ve been here from the start and have seen this club develop over the years,”
“We’re a close playing group and Sydney is home for me."
"The real question I face is do I want to stay for team success or do I want to return to Melbourne where I will get more money,”

He's been living up here since he was 17, in 2011. His girlfriend/partner for pretty much all of that time has been living here in Sydney too and considers it home with a life and a job and friends etc. She might be Choco's daughter but that just makes her a croweater if anything. Melbourne holds absolutely no draw for her at all.

I think you underestimate why Dylan plays football, what his life is like outside the bubble, and the level to which he has bought in to the future of this club.

 

[Jeremias]

We are now at standard list size so the fire sale is over but if you really need some players we have Joel Patfull, Tendai M'Zungu, matt de Boer and stevie J all available

Thank you for the kind offer, but we'll pass.

One thing to remember is that you have gained R1's from us the last couple of years to grease the wheels... how do you make it happen this year..I might be wrong , id suspect GWS would like points this year rather than 18.

If you're after points this year rather than next, it'll be a bit more difficult.

I suspect a lot may depend on what happens with Gibbs (Adelaide) and Kreuzer (FA).

If those two move on then we may have the 2017 currency to get a deal done. Wouldn't completely surprise if we traded our 2018 first to get more involved in the early stages of the 2017 draft either.

But for both you would be looking at 3 1st rounders and probably high end ones.

Neither have lost anything since they were drafted and we have developed them so less of a risk for the Blues.

3 x 1st rounders is a very high price to pay for 2 x OOC players with a collective 20 odd games under their belts.

But I do acknowledge both are very highly rated young players so it'll cost a fair bit.

Afraid not. I dont see any players we would want, and nor you would want to give up that are any good anyway

Think you've got things the wrong way around here - I was suggesting we'd take on an unwanted contract - like we've done previously with Palmer etc - not the other way around.

I dont know where you would get the picks to do it.

You cant package a ton of 2nd rounders anymore as its no benefit to us.

Agreed - it'll take a lot more than 2nd round picks.

As above, we may not have the currency right now but if we move on Gibbs, Kreuzer and our 2018 first that may no longer be the case.

That you're going to get Hopper and Kennedy

Did I say that?

This 'in the know' carlton poster sure gets a lot of stuff wrong for some internet person who is held in such regard that people will just re-hash their crap over every board on the site.

Maybe a bit harsh there.

There are plenty of posters claiming to be ITK who are anything but. However there are a few here and there who clearly know what's going on - we're lucky enough to have 1 or 2 on the Carlton board who have a very strong track record.

Anyway, I don't think I was "rehashing crap". I didn't think my initial post was out of line but each to their own I guess.