List Mgmt. 2017 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[LordLucifer]

I just can't see a best 22 midfielder in a flag contending team that is from NSW and whose parents are foundation members leave. He is a competitive athlete and I would imagine that reaching the ultimate glory is more important to him than mere currency

Just so you know, I'm a Foundation Member too.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Just so you know, I'm a Foundation Member too.

What's your story? NSW resident? From the area originally?

 

[dlanod]

What's your story? NSW resident? From the area originally?

Can't you see his location? He's obviously from Campbelltown.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Reading that article. its hard to know what to think of Stibbard, was he a genius or a completely defiant tyrant ??

Whilst you say that you would of won a flag by now if SOS had less misses (that is a big call), what you are forgetting is that even the best of the best recruiters get some wrong. To date, I'm not aware of anyone with a 100% strike rate.

Thing is, SOS still called those names, if he was as bad as you say, he would of cocked up more than you have said.

Overall, at the end of the season, your club has to shed 6 players just like every other club does. Given your massive talent base, all clubs (Carlton included) will be looking at who you want to jettison, its a natural instinct to try and pick players off the top teams. Hawthorn have had that issue for the past 6-8 years too. In our case, your offcuts are an improvement on a fair few of what we have already. Throw in to the mix that we are coming from a long way back thanks to a decade or two of poor recruiting plus there appears to be a good relationship between the two clubs and it makes sense to assume that the trades between us may continue.

I'm not as gung-ho about players like Hopper leaving as others are even though he would be a terrific get for us. It will really depend on his enjoyment levels as to whether he stays put or not. If he can see a prosperous future (and who wouldn't right at the moment), then he should stay for less $$ but the chance to be a premiership player.

If he thinks there are too many ahead of him in the pecking order, only then would he be on the open market.

No doubt we will lose players this year as we have every year but it can be a bit disconcerting being trolled on our own Board (not by you).

There is a polite way of asking questions which I think you are showing and arguing your own points well (hoping I don't sound patronising, not my goal).

I wish some of your colleagues were the same! We don't bother visiting other club forums as any differing view leads to an instant holiday. Our Mods are a bit more reasonable here.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Taking Plowman at 3 was ridiculous as even though we clearly lacked depth at that time in defence you do not pick for needs at the pointy end, you take best available unless you have a compelling reason (the potential draftee being a flight risk).

Anyway, it's fish and chips paper now...

Plowman and O'Rourke were part of the draft strategy dubbed by some of us at the time as "Bring a friend". We were settling young kids a long way from home so took kids that had played juniors together, or school footy together. Plowman and O'Rourke were good friends and it was thought that it might help settling in to strange surroundings.

Didn't work in that case because they're both gone now, but when you listen to someone like Thommo in his interview about why he re-signed, a large chunk of it was "I've been playing with some of these guys since the under 10s - we're all mates"

 

[LordLucifer]

What's your story? NSW resident? From the area originally?

Originally from Melbourne, live in Sydney, cannot stand the NRL, wanted the new franchise to kick their butt. Sheeds used to ring me up with his pre-recorded messages.

I went to watch some of your matches at Blacktown, was surprised to find my car still had all four wheels on it after the match.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Can't you see his location? He's obviously from Campbelltown.

On my mobile

 

[Andre the Giant]

Plowman and O'Rourke were part of the draft strategy dubbed by some of us at the time as "Bring a friend". We were settling young kids a long way from home so took kids that had played juniors together, or school footy together. Plowman and O'Rourke were good friends and it was thought that it might help settling in to strange surroundings.

Didn't work in that case because they're both gone now, but when you listen to someone like Thommo in his interview about why he re-signed, a large chunk of it was "I've been playing with some of these guys since the under 10s - we're all mates"

Very valid points particularly with the historically large go home factor. Just not sure you implement it right at the top. Maybe get your early pick and a mate with a round 3 or 4?

 

[dlanod]

Overall, at the end of the season, your club has to shed 6 players just like every other club does.

Three.

Given your massive talent base, all clubs (Carlton included) will be looking at who you want to jettison, its a natural instinct to try and pick players off the top teams. Hawthorn have had that issue for the past 6-8 years too. In our case, your offcuts are an improvement on a fair few of what we have already. Throw in to the mix that we are coming from a long way back thanks to a decade or two of poor recruiting plus there appears to be a good relationship between the two clubs and it makes sense to assume that the trades between us may continue.

Agreed in general...

I'm not as gung-ho about players like Hopper leaving as others are even though he would be a terrific get for us. It will really depend on his enjoyment levels as to whether he stays put or not. If he can see a prosperous future (and who wouldn't right at the moment), then he should stay for less $$ but the chance to be a premiership player.

If he thinks there are too many ahead of him in the pecking order, only then would he be on the open market.

...it's just the Hopper part that's a bit silly, though not fundamentally unrealistic IMO.

Our offcuts this year are potentially some combination of SJ, MDB, Downie (retired?), Himmelberg and maybe M. Kennedy. The latter two would be dependent on opportunity and would see the most interest.

 

[dlanod]

On my mobile

Aww you would have missed my brilliant humour then.

"Location: Helltown"

 

[coniglio_number1]

Aww you would have missed my brilliant humour then.

"Location: Helltown"

Haha if I could describe my town it would be the armpit of the northwest

 

[LordLucifer]

No doubt we will lose players this year as we have every year but it can be a bit disconcerting being trolled on our own Board (not by you).

There is a polite way of asking questions which I think you are showing and arguing our own points well.

I wish some of your colleagues were the same! We don't bother visiting other club forums as any differing view leads to an instant holiday. Our Mods are a bit more reasonable here.

You will certainly lose some players this year like everyone does but how many of them are "big hitters" remains to be seen. I would never have expected Treloar to go but it is a real juggling act to keep them all on reasonable coin and regular game time. I can see that the recent delistings & trades have mainly been the fringe players or those with faults (however that is determined) whilst preserving the main core of 28-32 players. This ratio will change over time though especially if clubs like North make offers that just cannot be refused (the scope & morals of that offer is another completely separate subject to discuss too).

Right now, you are in a unique position with most of your discards attracting a premium price in return. This has lead to their replacements on the playing list coming from the pointy end of the draft. I do think it will all level out over the next 4-5 years as some players chase the massive $$$ that will be offered. I'd expect that to happen AFTER you have won a flag or two though as their perceived value and their resume will look pretty good then.

I cannot comment on whether your mods are more reasonable or not, I just prefer to talk about the facts, or what I think (or hope) the facts are.

 

[LordLucifer]

Our offcuts this year are potentially some combination of SJ, MDB, Downie (retired?), Himmelberg and maybe M. Kennedy. The latter two would be dependent on opportunity and would see the most interest.

You'll have to excuse me, I'm little confused.

Your team is listed as Brisbane and your avatar is Brisbane but you talk about the Giants like they are your team, what am I missing here ??

 

[dlanod]

You'll have to excuse me, I'm little confused.

Your team is listed as Brisbane and your avatar is Brisbane but you talk about the Giants like they are your team, what am I missing here ??

Also a foundation and still member of GWS, but a Qld/Lions ex-pat, and a very frequent poster on this board since its inception.

 

[Turbocat]

With downie having mental issues and likely to return home I can see us taking Richards as a certainty. Would be great having 2 local developing ruckmen on the list

Can I ask what his issue is...? Not related to playing?

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

You'll have to excuse me, I'm little confused.

Your team is listed as Brisbane and your avatar is Brisbane but you talk about the Giants like they are your team, what am I missing here ??

A long standing foundation member "duel citizen" - whose (I'm pretty sure) is sick of explaining it again (and again)

But if you notice his "other teams" the first one listed is us.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Can I ask what his issue is...? Not related to playing?

Not explained in any kind of detail by the club beyond the very vague and generic "mental health" - hasn't even been any real attempt to even speculate here (and nor should we)

I saw a photo recently of him back at the club in his training kit though, so I hope that's a positive development.

 

[Giant Strides]

Just my two bobs worth on the list management situation. Three slots (minimum) - not 6 - required at end of year for draftees. I always had Stevie J (retirement) & one of the rucks as two likely departures, with the third potentially coming from someone jumping for $ or opportunity. We're actually sitting in a pretty solid position with regards to OOC players still unsigned. (Lack of the revised salary cap still hangs over the landscape.) Kelly, Smith, Hopper, Matt Kennedy, Himmelberg, Adam Kennedy & Buntine (7) are the priorities. Simpson (who I thought was likely to go, but Downie's issues have clouded that) & MDB are our easy go-to plays for list openings. Salary cap is always an issue, but if we can get all of the players to buy into a team-first philosophy - given where the team sits as pressing for a flag - plus the likely revised salary cap, then I genuinely believe that we can (can - not will) retain everyone we want to.

With the removal of Brander & Spargo from the academy, there's really limited academy targets on our horizon. Our two second round picks are enough to pick up guys like Powell & Richards from the academy. Spargo could even drop to an available selection early second round. (A little bit depends on how the AFL treat the 'points reduction' sanction from Lachie Whitfield.) Hell, we could even just go with a rookie upgrade on Sproule, Reid or Lloyd for the third pick. In short, there's no pressing list size reason or salary cap reason to cull players, and we don't really need to get high picks to particularly target an academy player or even an open draft player we want or to fill a need.

So, while I understand the need for supporters of other clubs - particularly those going through hard times - to look at a list such as GWS has & salivate, some of the commentary & rationale put forward in regards the GWS list & need to move players is just plain wrong or certainly skewed by self-interest. Might players like Matt Kennedy & Himmelberg jump for opportunity, or Kelly for $? Yes, they might. But it's not guaranteed. And it's likely to be only 1 to 3 players total. So GWS supporters are going to be pretty bullish about holding onto guys, particularly when the options on offer aren't that appealing from a potential flag-winning perspective.

 

[_GT_]

Just my two bobs worth on the list management situation. Three slots (minimum) - not 6 - required at end of year for draftees. I always had Stevie J (retirement) & one of the rucks as two likely departures, with the third potentially coming from someone jumping for $ or opportunity. We're actually sitting in a pretty solid position with regards to OOC players still unsigned. (Lack of the revised salary cap still hangs over the landscape.) Kelly, Smith, Hopper, Matt Kennedy, Himmelberg, Adam Kennedy & Buntine (7) are the priorities. Simpson (who I thought was likely to go, but Downie's issues have clouded that) & MDB are our easy go-to plays for list openings. Salary cap is always an issue, but if we can get all of the players to buy into a team-first philosophy - given where the team sits as pressing for a flag - plus the likely revised salary cap, then I genuinely believe that we can (can - not will) retain everyone we want to.

With the removal of Brander & Spargo from the academy, there's really limited academy targets on our horizon. Our two second round picks are enough to pick up guys like Powell & Richards from the academy. Spargo could even drop to an available selection early second round. (A little bit depends on how the AFL treat the 'points reduction' sanction from Lachie Whitfield.) Hell, we could even just go with a rookie upgrade on Sproule, Reid or Lloyd for the third pick. In short, there's no pressing list size reason or salary cap reason to cull players, and we don't really need to get high picks to particularly target an academy player or even an open draft player we want or to fill a need.

So, while I understand the need for supporters of other clubs - particularly those going through hard times - to look at a list such as GWS has & salivate, some of the commentary & rationale put forward in regards the GWS list & need to move players is just plain wrong or certainly skewed by self-interest. Might players like Matt Kennedy & Himmelberg jump for opportunity, or Kelly for $? Yes, they might. But it's not guaranteed. And it's likely to be only 1 to 3 players total. So GWS supporters are going to be pretty bullish about holding onto guys, particularly when the options on offer aren't that appealing from a potential flag-winning perspective.

As always, quality posting mate. Downie will be interesting no doubt. Really is a shame to struck down like that at any age, but when you're young and trying to get your short AFL career off the ground...Here's hoping we get some good news soon. When will know more about the cap?

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Haha brisbaneCFC is whinging about us now in the Carlton board.

TBF mate, I simply stated that I had a post deleted as it was deemed " arguing ". There was no whinging. I thought we were simply engaging in a decent conversation back and forth without any malice or anger intended. But if that's how your moderator saw it that's fine, no problem with that at all. I'm happy to engage in conversation with any of you guys here. I don't see anything wrong with friendly banter back and forth.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Does Patful count as one of the three or do the three have to come from the main list?

 

[Turbocat]

Not explained in any kind of detail by the club beyond the very vague and generic "mental health" - hasn't even been any real attempt to even speculate here (and nor should we)

I saw a photo recently of him back at the club in his training kit though, so I hope that's a positive development.

Quite correct. Im sure your club will take all the advisable measures. Geelong has been thru this a few times, id say its more common than some want to think about. Its very hard to gauge about the train kit thing , id say it would be different for each player.

 

[Bokonon_]

TBF mate, I simply stated that I had a post deleted as it was deemed " arguing ". There was no whinging. I thought we were simply engaging in a decent conversation back and forth without any malice or anger intended. But if that's how your moderator saw it that's fine, no problem with that at all. I'm happy to engage in conversation with any of you guys here. I don't see anything wrong with friendly banter back and forth.

I get posts deleted all the time, sadly. Our board is a bit sensitive right now we have the Mutts coming up on Friday night.
I dont get the sensitivity over trading with Carlton given we done so much of it where its in our mutual interests, but each to his own. Our board is a strange mix of previous alliances and that might be a clue. I can barely suffer Port to exist for example, some might be old Pies or Tigers supporters with no Carlton love

 

[Giant Strides]

Does Patfull count as one of the three or do the three have to come from the main list?

No, it's off the main list, so Patfull coming off the rookie list doesn't count.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I get posts deleted all the time, sadly. Our board is a bit sensitive right now we have the Mutts coming up on Friday night.
I dont get the sensitivity over trading with Carlton given we done so much of it where its in our mutual interests, but each to his own. Our board is a strange mix of previous alliances and that might be a clue. I can barely suffer Port to exist for example, some might be old Pies or Tigers supporters with no Carlton love

Cheers, all good mate. Like I said I'm happy to have some banter with you guys.