Training 2017 Preseason Thread

[eth-dog]

Howlett's manager looked around for better offers but there wasn't much interest. I don't think he can be too upset if he ends up playing VFL as other afl clubs were hardly knocking down doors to get him.

He had two good offers to go back home actually.

 

[efcboy]

He had two good offers to go back home actually.

Not what I heard - he had offers the year before but not this time around.

 

[eth-dog]

Not what I heard - he had offers the year before but not this time around.

Well one of us is clearly wrong, but I'm confident in my source.

 

[Longjohnmire]

Well one of us is clearly wrong, but I'm confident in my source.

Well done, Caro.

 

[eDPS]

 

[bjisgod9]

No where near best 22

Yeah would have to disagree, with Walla most likely playing fwd, Mckenna & McGrath are the only two half backs with line-breaking speed. Pretty good kick too.

 

[efcboy]

Well one of us is clearly wrong, but I'm confident in my source.

Howlett signed a one year deal with Essendon. If he had received a multi year deal elsewhere he most likely would have departed as he and his manager are smart enough to realise he's on the fringe of selection at EFC and he has to compete with the likes of parish, McGrath, Langford etc for a spot now.

 

[Bark Maguley]

its still a bit early for pre-season dont you reckon?

 

[Saint]

It is specifically an Essendon problem.

Name another club where you and old are in the same battle to the same extent.

Fremantle, they probably had the same number of experienced players injured who will come back and dislodge guys who played a lot this year.

The only difference is that our younger players got AFL matches when they would have otherwise been playing in the VFL. They've known the situation the whole time, it's not a surprise. Brown isn't going to complain if Hurley takes his spot on the field. Nor is Laverde going to be pissed off that Hooker is the new lead-up forward and he'll have to spend lots of time in the VFL this year.

Those players will most likely count themselves lucky rather than crack the sads as Wallace is implying.

 

[Saint]

He had two good offers to go back home actually.

You mean his manager leaked that he had good offers and Essendon should come to the party.

What a surprise. Every player has imaginary offers (or maybe real offers) from rival teams when it's contract negotiations time. But when it comes to trade time, those same offers seem to dry up.

 

[Saint]

Probably worth noting that the problem we supposedly have is a great one to have, I'd hardly call it a problem that so many of our players have AFL experience and demand game time.

Contrast this with teams like North Melbourne, Carlton or Brisbane where they're trying to cobble together 22 players every week who they have no idea if they're up to AFL standard or not. (Just like us last year).

I know which situation I'd rather be in.

 

[BrunoV]

Fremantle, they probably had the same number of experienced players injured who will come back and dislodge guys who played a lot this year.

The only difference is that our younger players got AFL matches when they would have otherwise been playing in the VFL. They've known the situation the whole time, it's not a surprise. Brown isn't going to complain if Hurley takes his spot on the field. Nor is Laverde going to be pissed off that Hooker is the new lead-up forward and he'll have to spend lots of time in the VFL this year.

Those players will most likely count themselves lucky rather than crack the sads as Wallace is implying.

Fremantle got rid of almost everyone whose position was in dispute and will field a team that has little resemblance to the one that made a prelim in 2015.

I'm not sure how you can speak for players and their expectations and ambitions.

The point was that posters just dismissed Wallace's article, paranoid that the only reason he would say anything negative about Essendon is because he does not like the club. In support all you've done is run out the company line "everyone is happy" before a decision has been made (so current happiness is irrelevant).

In the current climate, quality young kids/players under contract try to walk out on clubs every year (some successfully and some not). Pulling the club in the other direction is the reality that we have put 12 of our listed players through hell.

There are more than enough objective factors (including the contrasting playing styles of old and new) in all of this to be concerned that we could have a problem with list management during and at the end of the year. That does not mean it will happen but if you're going to try and approach AFL analytically, which Wallace does, and usually does quite well, it's more than fair to have raised the question.

 

[eDPS]

 

[eDPS]

 

[Kakkle]

Well one of us is clearly wrong, but I'm confident in my source.

efcboy is correct. No offers last year from any club. Did receive an offer in 2015 from a Melbourne based club.

 

[BrunoV]

efcboy is correct. No offers last year from any club. Did receive an offer in 2015 from a Melbourne based club.

Wasn't it Carlton? From memory Hird talked Howlett into playing 100 games for Essendon.

 

[Kakkle]

Wasn't it Carlton? From memory Hird talked Howlett into playing 100 games for Essendon.

The offer was a 3 year deal, but he stayed with us for two. Hird returning was a big factor in his decision to stay and not take up Carltons offer.


Why would Fremantle in particular make a offer for someone like Howlett, yet toss side a perfectly capable AFL standard midfielder in Barlow?

 

[BrunoV]

The offer was a 3 year deal, but he stayed with us for two. Hird returning was a big factor in his decision to stay and not take up Carltons offer.

What a terrific decision that has been for Ben. He'd be a permanent fixture at Carlton whose inside mid stock were and remain the worst in the competition. This is a team that will end up giving 100 games to players like Kerridge, Wright and which went out to recruit Palmer this year.

That's the point at which, rather than talking Ben into staying, we should have been doing the actual "right thing" by the player, telling him that the trade is best for his career and promising him that the deal would be done (even if we accept a bag of peanuts).

 

[boncer34]

Howletts manager spoke to clubs. They didn't initiate the contact and their complete lack of interest didn't improve after hearing his contract demands.

 

[efcboy]

Richmond made Howlett an offer a couple of years ago as well but Howlett stayed to be loyal to Hird.

 

[bombreys]

How do you read Essendon hatred into the article?

I will preface this by saying I do not necessarily expect that this scenario will end in disaster but everyone is focusing on discussions held before banned players, and others, re-committed or committed to the club in isolation. I would have thought it is more complicated.

Clearly these conversations were all positive, otherwise the relevant players would not be on our list, but do you really think that any of the players heard "you might have to play for your spot" and thought "that's cool, if I don't make the cut so be it"? I would be amazed if any of the players did not approach those discussions from the perspective that playing for a spot would be a teammate's problem problem. That's not a criticism of anyone in any way, it reflects the self belief that I would expect of a professional athlete.

In many way anything that happens until a tough choice is made will be irrelevant. It's when the tough call is made that someone will be disappointed and emotion then enters the equation.

How does Worsfold go to Howlett, for example, and say "Ben you're doing everything right but Fantasia and Walla are the small forwards and we like the run of Parish and Langford in the middle so we just don't have a spot". Howlett will know that nothing will have changed between his re-committing and my hypothetical conversation. The same goes for any returning player who is left out. When does he start thinking that this was the second time he was used? It's very much on the club to be clear about its ultimate intentions.

What flimsy rationale is Worsfold going to try to sell to Gleeson or McKenna who finds himself in the twos despite finishing 2016 the way they did? They'll both know that they are at the required standard and they'll know that they made way for a senior player they did not need last year. They'll know that the hardest place to play for your spot is in the VFL and that "playing for a spot" borders on being bullshit corporate speak.

I do not think these reactions are unreasonable. At the end of the day there will be arbitrary decisions which are made. That's team selection, do we really believe that the ordering of a log jam, in our case between 18 and probably 26, on a list is ordered according to some objective scientific formula that is beyond dispute?

I would not hold it against any player for being pissed off. We're trying to "have our cake and eat it too" and that is an approach that does not usually work. It strikes me as naive to just assume that we will get away with it before we have even arrived at the first potential problem. The player are human, afterall.

Maybe not 'hatred' per se, but you can tell reading the quotes that he was trying to turn it into something negative, as he does with everything Essendon related. You'll never hear him praise any part of the Club.

Respectfully, I don't agree with most of what you've said - anyone who's good enough plays. You play your best 22 available, in line with the teams best structure. I, and I'm sure Worsfold, couldn't care less if someone's feelings are hurt.

With your 'flimsy rationale' comment, Worsfold doesn't have to sell anything to anyone. If Gleeson/McKenna want to play, they have to be up to it. Age isn't going to get you a game, perhaps like it did in 2016. Guys like Watson, Goddard and even Hooker are playing to win.

When you say you wouldn't hold it against any player for being pissed off, I most certainly would - there's nothing to 'get away with'. This is football. If you're deserving of playing, you'll play.

Really, we're not that different to any other team. Injuries will take place, the year will begin, and we'll quickly realize that this team isn't quite as deep as we may have thought it was. Selection may be tough, but it's never going to be a problem.

 

[eDPS]

 

[eDPS]

 

[Simon_Says]

Sorry for the intrusion onto your board, will you be announcing your Captain for Next year tomorrow?

 

[eDPS]

Sorry for the intrusion onto your board, will you be announcing your Captain for Next year tomorrow?

If you look further up his page you will find your answer