Preview 2017 Young Talent Time

Discussion in 'Fremantle' started by Chris25, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. fnerd

    fnerd All Australian

    Fremantle
    Aug 23, 2009
    849
    perth
    Lol ....well i look fwd to recieving a first rd pick for tabs when we inevitably piss him off at the end of the year based on thats what mcgoverns trade is roughly worth

    Seriously thats absolutely rubbish (its not a strength of mitch)..I dont care what your little stat book says....ill back what ive seen with my own eyes ....also go over to the adelaide board with that assumption(they all virtually conclude mgov jr is their best contested mark..yes ahead of jenkins and tex)
    Also catch the telecast last night?...After a mcgov mark carey also stated how good BOTH McGoverns can mark the
    ball... (all in the commentry agreed)

    And finally more pertinently mathew taberner is a 'seriously limited and extremely average football player'.....hard as that may be to believe....FOR YOU
     

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  2. Joao

    Joao Club Legend

    Fremantle
    May 2, 2017
    1,171
    QLD
    Gov is a good contested mark in a similar way Fyfe is. He requires a run and jump at the ball or to drift in from the side of a pack. He judges the flight really well. He can't wrestle to win one like Tex and Jenkins with strength.

    No way MGov would perform better against the no1 defender than Tex and that is why the no1 goes to Tex.
     
    blue shark likes this.
  3. fnerd

    fnerd All Australian

    Fremantle
    Aug 23, 2009
    849
    perth
    Yeah I agree with your assessments, its not what i was arguing tho...it was in relation to that poster suggesting contested marking is not a strength of mcgov jr
     
    Joao likes this.
  4. Docker82

    Docker82 Club Legend

    Fremantle
    Jun 21, 2013
    2,125
    Anywhere. Any time.
    #579 Docker82, Jul 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
    Personally I wouldn't bother until third round if at all assuming we go tall first up (I agree with you we should). I'd rather use Cox as a second ruck and have an extra high-skilled small (assuming there's one available) than use a decent pick on a guy that may only be behind Cox anyway. Most or at least half second rucks playing league-wide these days are pretty average at actually rucking so we wouldn't be overly different to a lot of teams anyway.

    Personally I can't see Cox, Hamling and Pearce in the same backline, especially with Logue in the side as well. Cox is the obvious one to play forward given we're already playing him there. Cox, McCarthy and a real A-Grade gun KPF would be a very workable forward line especially if surrounded by good smalls and serviced by good mids.
     
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  5. theGav56

    theGav56 Brownlow Medallist

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Fremantle
    Oct 11, 2004
    14,104
    Bali
    You would think Logue and Cox are going to play at opposite ends of the ground. Adding McCarthy is a luxury which you do if the price is right .
     
  6. blue shark

    blue shark Club Legend

    Fremantle
    Aug 15, 2009
    1,703
    perth
    Our best line up is determined by players coming back from injury, oldest players staying on. But what you have written
    is pretty sound.
    We will have to fit Pearce into the team somewhere, maybe betwen him and Cox we have ruck pinch hitters or depth?
    If we were serious about taking Fogarty, might as well do a deal with Adelaide, at least McGovern is guaranteed, we
    know what we are getting
    A forward line of McCarthy, Cox or Pearce, Mcgovern is already an improvement on this year.
    Cox is already 194cm, McCarthy 193cm, Pearce 199cm? McGovern 191cm?
    But adding a genuune KPF gives us even mote options, we don't have to force Cox, Pearce forward.
     
  7. Joao

    Joao Club Legend

    Fremantle
    May 2, 2017
    1,171
    QLD
    A Pearce is not a forward. He has good hands but did not look anywhere near as comfortable there. Also could barely kick it 40m.

    I agree with Chris that we need to maintain our first round pick this year.
     
  8. Dirty_banchez

    Dirty_banchez Club Legend

    Fremantle
    Apr 15, 2013
    2,548
    I'm hearing meima is a very good chance at getting Rookie drafted this year. Teams are looking for more fun and bounce out of HB.
     
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  9. blue shark

    blue shark Club Legend

    Fremantle
    Aug 15, 2009
    1,703
    perth
    Neither could Mayne but had two seasons kicking 39, 37 goals. Very hard to judge Alex because he has played 21
    games.
    But we need structure, a strong spine and AP, Cox could be our swingman, pinch hit in the ruck. I too would like to keep
    our first rounder, but if I had the choice between Fogarty or McGovern I'd choose the latter.
    Brander would be ideal, Sutherland should stay in Victoria, if he picks footy. Hayes would be a reach, I think Chris would
    pick Stephenson if available.
     
    fnerd likes this.
  10. eastfreo75

    eastfreo75 Premiership Player

    Fremantle
    Feb 11, 2011
    3,230
    pakenham
    #585 eastfreo75, Jul 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
    Depending where our first pick will be, will determine what we do.

    I wouldn't trade pick 5 unless it is a God father deal.

    Hayes, Sutherland, Garner and Stephenson are huge flight risks.

    Rayner might be a flight risk but his talent would be too good to pass on.

    Fogarty would a good get, being an inside mid/key forward type.

    Brander would be nice and fill a hole up forward.

    obrien for a 5-10 pick would be awesome as a good user who can break the lines off half back. Could rotate with Weller in the middle.

    My list would be:
    1. Rayner
    2. Brander
    3. Fogarty
    4. Davies-uniacke
    5. Stevenson
     
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  11. Hazelsnuts

    Hazelsnuts Senior List

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    North Beach. AIK Stockholm
    Sep 17, 2016
    221
    The beach
    Sorry but no way do give up early 1st round for McGovern, get him for a trade or swap in picks but not first round 1 - 6.
    If we down trade our first to later and an early second that means we are two for one deal like last year.
    Oscar Allen is the one I really like as a early second round, reckon he will grow to be 194cm +. He has the potential to be the KPF we need whilst using a late first rounder on McGovern or an elite mid.
     
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  12. theGav56

    theGav56 Brownlow Medallist

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Fremantle
    Oct 11, 2004
    14,104
    Bali
    Our first for McGovern and Adelaide first? Worth considering. Would need to be confident about quality available at their pick.
     
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  13. go_the_dockers

    go_the_dockers Norm Smith Medallist

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Man Utd
    Sep 11, 2008
    7,096
    Adelaide
    Pick 2-5 for McGovern and pick 15-18 is too much, as well I believe the next forward we get will need to be a main target not a 3rd forward.
     
    Wizard likes this.
  14. Joao

    Joao Club Legend

    Fremantle
    May 2, 2017
    1,171
    QLD
    No thanks.

    Gov is a talented player but has not shown top 5 talent. You just don't give the opportunity away when you have it to take that talent.

    Two good players =/= 1 very good player.
     
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  15. Scham

    Scham Norm Smith Medallist

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    West Perth
    Sep 19, 2004
    9,400
    Our recruiters have rated Allen highly for a long while now and he's improved a lot this year so who knows how highly they rate him now. Apparently they rated Logue a long way out and by draft time had him top 3. If they're as confident as you are that he'll grow to 195 they could very well take him with their first pick.
     
  16. meima

    meima Brownlow Medallist

    Fremantle
    Jun 5, 2015
    12,229
    Thanks my rookie list buddy Nyhuis is killing it .
     
  17. Joao

    Joao Club Legend

    Fremantle
    May 2, 2017
    1,171
    QLD
    If he needs to be 195+ to be the player you require then I don't think it is wise to pick him high and hope he gets there. I think you would need to assume he isn't going to grow. Average male stops growing at 18.
    He was very impressive at the U18s though, so I am not surprised the recruiters like him.

    After last years draft/trade period I feel like our recruiters will do some stuff that none of us are expecting.
     
    M_rash likes this.
  18. Gussman

    Gussman Team Captain

    Fremantle
    Oct 14, 2016
    560
    I don't think a specific height is needed to be the player we need. He just needs to be able to crash the packs, take a contested mark and be able to play one on one on a opponents number 1 defender.

    Look at Pav. He was a great option for a long time, but was only 192cm.

    That being said, a bit of extra height probably wouldn't hurt.
     
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  19. theGav56

    theGav56 Brownlow Medallist

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Fremantle
    Oct 11, 2004
    14,104
    Bali
    I agree that it is too much, but I am not certain the club will go KPF with our first. I think another option could be Adelaide's next years first round. A stronger draft with greater forward depth. Not advocating the trade just shooting the breeze.
     
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  20. Bradesmaen

    Bradesmaen Brownlow Medallist

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    SJ Sharks/Everton/NY Jets
    Apr 8, 2007
    27,585
    London
    MGov isnt worth a first, no way in hell. He can take a mark but his brother shits all over him for decision making and kicking. Third round at best. This is a forward who has kicked 35 goals in 26 games, spending 90% of that forward. Yes they have other avenues to goal, but they are all booting 40+ a year
     
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  21. theGav56

    theGav56 Brownlow Medallist

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Fremantle
    Oct 11, 2004
    14,104
    Bali
    I definitely think he is closer to a 3rd round than pick 3.
     
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  22. Paracleet

    Paracleet We finally really did it. You maniacs!

    Fremantle
    Jun 30, 2011
    2,180
    There are a number of problems with this view:
    • Pav is in the top echelon of the players to ever play the game. Possibly the greatest ever all round non rucking utility.
    • Pav was a non standard weight for his height, presumably due to his body type. He was 192 and like 98/99/100 kg. Standard playing weight is height - 100. (Meaning he could better defend space against taller defenders)
    • The average height of defenders (and indeed all players) has increased since Pav was in his pomp. Let alone when he was drafted. (In the 20th century!)
    Plenty of guys around 192 can still take contested mark. But there is more than one kind of contested mark. The kind the McGoverns or Fyfe take where you float in from the side you just don't get the opportunity to do deep forward since people block your run. Much more useful in the forward to be able to mark shoulder to shoulder in static contests (Like Cloke) or to be have elite pace and leading patters and ability to shield the ball from the spoiling fist on that lead (like say, J Reiwolt). Or be good at all three like Kennedy and Buddy.

    That's why Jeremy McGovern is never going to be a number 1 forward. If he goes forward all you need to do it put someone on him who can stop him getting a jump at the ball. With his lack of pace and not particularly good ground work he is then a liability who the defenders can run off.

    If you're going pick a guy at that 192ish height to play forward in this day age you'd want to be pretty confident he had more than one string to his bow.
     
    Dormammu, mad4freo, Crippa and 4 others like this.
  23. theGav56

    theGav56 Brownlow Medallist

    Fremantle
    Other teams:
    Fremantle
    Oct 11, 2004
    14,104
    Bali
    Do you think unorthodox, multi-pronged forward lines can work, or is that focus essential?
     
  24. Paracleet

    Paracleet We finally really did it. You maniacs!

    Fremantle
    Jun 30, 2011
    2,180
    No it's not, but those slightly shorter players need proportionally greater ability to make up for it. Making them equally hard to obtain!
     
  25. Joao

    Joao Club Legend

    Fremantle
    May 2, 2017
    1,171
    QLD
    Well if Allen is as good as Pav I am all for it. Maybe he is... seriously I wouldn't know if he was.

    I don't think I will mind too much who we pick (unless we do an Adelaide and pick a Doedee over Burton). I just recognise the difference a proper key forward makes (seriously North aren't in it yesterday without Brown).

    Last year the only player I didn't want with our first was Logue. I really liked Berry. I had never even heard of Darcy. That stuff looks like it might work out.
     

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