List Mgmt. 2019 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Watsclarkosmob]

As we all know it's silly season


Hawthorn Out: Pittonet and Pick 50
Hawthorn In: Pick 43 and Pick 72


Carton Out: Pick 43 and Pick 72
Carlton In: Pittonet and Pick 50


Hawthorn Out: Pick 30 and Pick 43
Hawthorn In: Patton, Bonar and Pick 60


GWS Out: Patton, Bonar and Pick 60
GWS In: Pick 30 and Pick 43



I'm hearing you with Bonar being early to mid 20's alone, so originally I had Hawthorn trading with Adelaide.


Hawthorn Out: Pick 11 (Total 1329 points)
Hawthorn In: Pick 23 and Pick 28 (Total 1492 points)


Adelaide Out: Pick 23 and Pick 28 (Total 1492 points)
Adelaide In: Pick 11 (Total 1329 points)


For a:

Hawthorn Out: Pick 28 and Pick 30
Hawthorn In: Patton, Bonar and Pick 60


GWS Out: Patton, Bonar and Pick 60
GWS In: Pick 28 and Pick 30


Which I believe is fair but over at the Hawthorn board they believe is overs.

 

[Ppollen]

so if their second round pick was, say 32, they would have received 33 for Ellis?

so it is contract related in that Ellis was obviously deemed of higher worth given his contract with GC is more than Tommo is getting at Melbourne.

thanks for the clarification.

Yes I believe his contract was more in total. Ellis is also rated higher according to the AFL player ratings.

 

[bossman111]

Not sure how i feel about this. The intel on an early bid for Green must be strong

 

[Giant Strides]

Wow, that's a lot to give up - and then we still have to pay for Green. Or are we going to pass on him?

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

Not sure how i feel about this. The intel on an early bid for Green must be strong

How does that even work? Picks 12 and 18 total 2253 points while pick 4 totals 2034. If someone was to use pick 4 to force GWS to match a bid, effectively dissolving pick 12 and 18 to match the pick 4 bid and a pick allocated worth the remaining points (2253 - (2034*0.8)=626) so around pick 31. I must be wrong with my understanding as that trade makes no sense.

 

[bossman111]

Not sure how i feel about this. The intel on an early bid for Green must be strong

Maybe Sauce gets added in, so something to do with not messing up the Tommo compo pick

 

[TryAnHit]

Could see us giving some later picks aswell to help you match the green bid

 

[eDPS]

Had a feeling you would go down this route, that’s a fairly smart trade as pick 12 would have been used for the bid anyway. As always you guys will have a certain player in mind and I wouldn’t be shocked if it’s one of Kemp or Stephens

 

[Giant Pete]

We have a player targeted. We know Melbourne won’t bid on Greene. So we end up with two top 5 players.

 

[Battlepants]

Why won't Melbourne bid on Green?

 

[Giant Pete]

Why won't Melbourne bid on Green?

Because they already have too many slowish, pure inside mids.

 

[Danny88]

Look three first round picks for a first round pick seems gross overs...

I’m bloody hopeless in trade week so what do I know

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Wow, that's a lot to give up - and then we still have to pay for Green. Or are we going to pass on him?

Why dont you do something like?
Out: FR1 12 18 60
In: Jacobs 4 28 (or whatever pick they get for Greenwood maybe) 49

Excluding the jacobs bit for 60 its fairly even on points and gives you 28 40 and 49 to match a green bid. Thats about 1200 points plus whatever you get for Patton should be enough to match a Green bid at 5. Worth it to get ahead of a sydney bid?

 

[Giant Strides]

Why dont you do something like?
Out: FR1 12 18 60
In: Jacobs 4 28 (or whatever pick they get for Greenwood maybe) 49

Excluding the jacobs bit for 60 its fairly even on points and gives you 28 40 and 49 to match a green bid. Thats about 1200 points plus whatever you get for Patton should be enough to match a Green bid at 5. Worth it to get ahead of a sydney bid?

Yes, we're going to need something back in that 20s block to recoup enough points, otherwise it's counterproductive.

You could simplify your scenario about by removing the later picks being traded, just go with:
GWS OUT: FR1 #12 #18 (assume 2020 Rd 1 between #11 & #18, total value between 3582 to 3238 points)
GWS IN: #4 #28 Jacobs (value 2711 points, that's a big points benefit to Adelaide)

GWS have: #4 #28 #40 #50 (from Hawks for Patton) #60.
Selection at #4, match Green bid @ #5 requires 1502 points, expends all those picks, with 22 points (pick 72) residual.
To carry the 5 picks we'd need an additional main list space, so probably delist Tommy Sheridan.

Requires one additional pick at 72 - Delahunty or just reselect Sheridan or a curveball selection.

 

[I Love Lamb]

Whose to say Demons won’t trade the pick away to a team looking for an inside mid? Sydney, Essendon, Cats? Huge risk by GWS

 

[Giant Strides]

Whose to say Demons won’t trade the pick away to a team looking for an inside mid? Sydney, Essendon, Cats? Huge risk by GWS

Yep, that's why I would not do it at that price.

 

[Mr Magic]

Yep, that's why I would not do it at that price.

So what price would you do it? Why not trade for pick 3, swap with pick 4?

RFC has a number of second round picks I suppose handy for Green points. Not sure who RFC is chasing but can't see us chasing Green anyway.

Not sure on the points but pick 18 for picks 38/40 or whatever etc... so its points positive for GWS but gets RFC higher up to chase whoever we are

 

[Giant Strides]

So what price would you do it? Why not trade for pick 3, swap with pick 4?

As I said earlier, trading for #3 would provide as much certainty as you'd get in this draft - I doubt that GCS will risk GWS not matching a bid and splitting up Rowell & Anderson. Still a big price but removes that uncertainty. (Still have to get Jacobs as RFA or via trade.) The problem with getting #4 then trading for #3 is it would cost us probably that pick #28, so now we're paying massive overs and have lost points to pay for Green - so it's not worth it.

We could just trust our recruiting team to find a gem in the 20s.

We'll just have to wait and see what transpires. It is works, they're legends; if not, they're zeros.

 

[Mr Magic]

As I said earlier, trading for #3 would provide as much certainty as you'd get in this draft - I doubt that GCS will risk GWS not matching a bid and splitting up Rowell & Anderson. Still a big price but removes that uncertainty. (Still have to get Jacobs as RFA or via trade.) The problem with getting #4 then trading for #3 is it would cost us probably that pick #28, so now we're paying massive overs and have lost points to pay for Green - so it's not worth it.

We could just trust our recruiting team to find a gem in the 20s.

We'll just have to wait and see what transpires. It is works, they're legends; if not, they're zeros.

it depends on who you are chasing and and the likelihood of that person going between 3 and 4.

What I do not get is this is partially counter productive for GWS IMO?


One of GWS's problem is their bottom 6 and general depth IMO. Even in the finals this year GWS relies on the availability of certain players with little backup. The trouble is it also reduces the flexibility of the way GWS can play making them more predictable and easier to be rebutted.

Consider this, GWS has gone well beating certain teams when intense and up and about but how often do they run into the upper echelon of teams where the opposition matches the intensity to win a premiership and how many of your players are truely ready for the ultimate finals contest? It comes with experience including trial and error and in some repects some of the players can be at the start of their real finals development.

The point is GWS have a lot of guns. It also is getting Green. Why is GWS not chasing role players of more talent it is deficient in to improve the overall list instead of cherry picking certain players at the top especially if it may not be able to hold on to them anyway in terms of cap and risk of moving away???

If GWS get a few role players on lessor money later on and in second round will they not want to stick to try and be part of a premiership for a little while arguably because the team is more formidable as a team and therefore closer to winning the premiership every player seeks as an ultimate reward??

GWS are going to have to get some money ball players or need to to compliment there approach.


Have a look at RFC's profile list wise as a point of difference. We have elite talent, not saying its the best set-up but its different to GWS. GWS has elite talent to, arguably more than RFC but the list is different IMO. Look at Pickett 1st game some say nearly wins Norm Smith. Easy said than done identifying these players but is GWS's recruitment/development approach too narrow?

Not saying anything wrong with GWS players but do you have any bottom six players capable of winning a Norm Smith going into the match?? Its just a possible point of difference GWS might be wise to consider when formulating teams competing on the field versus competitive opposing opposition set-ups.

One may also argue GWS list profile is riskier because a lot of talent is within a number of select players and not enough talent has been distributed among the lessor types. What that means is when you have injuries, touch wood, the effect on the overall team is greater. Sure you have a lot of youngsters with good talent that will come through but again the lack of depth in role players and options if things go pear shaped or you need a different matchup/approach is limited. You only have to see the options you have for ruck even with Jacobs arriving.

If I was GWS attempting to do what you are doing with pick 4 or 3 I would want to be sure I am getting a good chance of a real gun. In other words a Fyfe/Dusty or at least Macrae type. If GWS are just trying to get a specific type this play IMO is far too risky and costly. I assume Rowell and Anderson are gone 1 and 2 and GWS is chasing what they think is a player potentially better than those two and if they rate the player that high they may as well go for pick 3.

When Dusty came around I did not think he would last to RFC, we where just very lucky and Sydney Swans wanted trade to our pick to get him so they were not stupid either.

If I was looking for inspiration this is what I would like to hear from Leon Cameron.

Leon Cameron should come out and say GWS is not a Ferrari. The Ferrari comments were made by someone who used both hands and we apologise for that.

GWS is a football team!!!

A number of years ago GWS had a team abundant with individual talent and with that talent they got close to winning some important finals. However, we failed and that was part of the learning process and we have grown and are starting to mature as a football team. Part of that growth has been our players playing together more coherently and understanding each other as team mates in pursuit of our onfield goals!! Our team's soul is growing and developing and we are becoming a football team.

In our last match the scoreline did not reflect our growth. It was an aberration and we believe our team is growing and developing such that we think we will create waves in the AFL competition in 2020 and beyond including contending in the finals and we look forward to embracing your continued support to help drive us to the ultimate success we all crave!!!

Part of that belief is the belief we have a lot of current existing elite talent and great structure to enable us to challenge for the goals and success we strive to achieve. From that belief we are looking at bolting on a number of supporting cast personnel to enhance and empower the overall team to develop further and improve as a team to as one we attempt to win the ultimate prize on the AFL footy field with renewed confidence!!! So when we are talking about supporting cast its not necessarily all the best juniors coming through, although that helps, but the best players/options including mature types to impact the team in the short and medium term so the team is recognised as a contending force consistently in the now and therefore a place where other players who strive to win want to come and enjoy the team success we are striving for!! This is not about just collecting individual talent in the under 14's and under 16's and winning individual trophy's, this is at this level, about playing totally as a team so we can beat formidable opposition at the highest levels to achieve the success on field we desire and the rewards that come with that ultimately from the teamwork we display in every facet of our approach!!

 

[TryAnHit]

Surely that trade would not be done till draft night and till after GWS see no bid on green at 3

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Surely that trade would not be done till draft night and till after GWS see no bid on green at 3

Melbourne are stacked for inside mids they arent bidding on green.

 

[dlanod]

Melbourne are stacked for inside mids they arent bidding on green.

And no one is going to pay a premium to trade up for Green, knowing they can't actually get him - they'll just be wasting draft capital.

 

[Colonial]

Star GWS players have "made a pact": Edmund

The agreement in place could ward off future offers from rival clubs

www.sen.com.au

Fingers crossed

 

[VanDemonxx]

Wouldn't be surprised if we end up now trading pick 3 to you guys for 4 and something
We don't want Green but would easily trade the pick to several clubs who would

 

[Colonial]