List Mgmt. 2020 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Shadow89]

to get you have to give

nothing is for free and no reason for Geelong to feel a sense of entitlement

Tom Lynch.

 

[Colonial]

If the Giants traded out Coniglio, Whitfield and Cameron, then brought in Bont and Hayden Young, their list manager should be shot

Nah, and for once I mean no disrespect to a dogs fan or their players, he would be hung drawn and quartered.

 

[Colonial]

I am not talking from a Richmond perspective because I am not chasing them but part of the problem must be culture and leadership and in terms of windows GWS needs a reset.


Its not about who is on the table. Its about how and who is going to win a premiership and if you don't have that you have nothing no matter whats on the table cause I will not be grabbing a seat.

How is GWS going to communicate change and a re-start, how is GWS going to separate the renewed period from the failures of the past?

I not having a crack at certain people cause I am too far away to tell but I would trade out Haynes not on performance but age being 28 in terms of your window possibilities.

Put it this way, no one in real contention without real problems underneath puts up the sort of performance that was dished up last night versus the Swans without Heeney and others.

I would trade out Kelly but I thought he showed enough last night to prove to me he is untouchable for GWS and given his age important for your clubs future.

I thought Kelly stood up a little last night in terms of on field leadership, Greene has done it regularly and Taranto is your youngster with the output and potential to provide leadership for your youngsters. They are your clear leaders but I wouldn't toss out your youngsters. Hately could be traded to Adelaide if you want picks because you are going to need to rebuild your forward line/backline and ruck department

Magic you’ve obviously hit the turps early.

 

[Colonial]

Thats the trouble with your values.


Its not about commitment, its about winning premiership

Your quick fire approach almost had your 2 time premiership coach out the door the year before he won it and your best player almost traded.

 

[Mr Magic]

Your quick fire approach almost had your 2 time premiership coach out the door the year before he won it and your best player almost traded.

do tell?

 

[Colonial]

do tell?

Really? Dusty looking around, even came to us, doesn’t ring a bell?

Hardwick always being up in the “coach’s that will be let go soon” threads and in the professional media has been forgotten as well?

 

[Colonial]

They would trade them out to get better players and improve their chances to win a premiership.

In my opinion, Kelly and Greene are there best players and they stay.

Having some of your best players is meaningless if your not contending for a premiership. Your biggest asset is AFL HQ and they want revenue increase and improved premiership projections

Caldwell, Halloran are closer to GWS premiership window. AFL HQ want the money meaning they want the club to be on the path and contending to get the numbers up, not going through the motions funding expensive salary payments

Cameron is 27, time is running out and what if he leaves to Geelong for virtually nothing. What if he gets an injury, look at Patton? Should thankful he has not suffered major injuries yet and still has currency. How much money will AFL HQ lose then if Cameron exits for minimal compo and will they shift the franchise?

Shift the Franchise? Careful Magic you’re slipping and showing your true colours.

 

[Mr Magic]

Shift the Franchise? Careful Magic you’re slipping and showing your true colours.

what colours are they??

AFL HQ know what they want, a broader audience and bigger market.

They would be very happy how Gold Coast are starting to sine and footy developing in Queensland

 

[Mr Magic]

Really? Dusty looking around, even came to us, doesn’t ring a bell?

Hardwick always being up in the “coach’s that will be let go soon” threads and in the professional media has been forgotten as well?

Dusty has nothing to do with this scenario.

Dusty is our best player. I said Kelly and Toby should stay and Toby is 26 to. Dusty was younger than 27 at the time was he not.

Richmond are not a expansionary club where AFL HQ wants the uptake of Aussie rules to increase as much as possible despite the barriers in Sydney which are not present in Victoria. Performance was not as critical arguably as the fan base was used to suffering for years and arguably more fanatical. The 2017 premiership was a shock to most RFC supporters

No comparision only contrast. RFC does not have forces working against them in Victoria like the Giants do in Sydney. Even the Queensland teams get a better go than Sydney teams including the Swans. Its obvious why there is more growth of Aussie Rules in Queensland than Sydney given the obstacles out in front of teams like the Swans and Giants which makes growing the market that much harder.

The importance of a performance orientated viable path towards a premiership for the Giants and success would be more critical to the Giants market I would have thought especially in fickle Sydney

Our older player Deledio was traded off to GWS. If you check RFC board bigfooty records will show I promoted this but I had no say in RFC's decision as I don't live in Victoria. Check the other RFC bigfooty posters who were annoyed at me promoting Lids possible departure at the time. I was talking about possible getting the picks used for Jack Martin in the mini draft and so forth for trading players out for years to fellow RFC fans displeasure but thats the reality and the virus brings home the business aspect as salary caps are compromised by external factors

 

[Colonial]

Dusty has nothing to do with this scenario.

Dusty is our best player. I said Kelly and Toby should stay and Toby is 26 to. Dusty was younger than 27 at the time was he not.

Richmond are not a expansionary club where AFL HQ wants the uptake of Aussie rules to increase as much as possible despite the barriers in Sydney which are not present in Victoria. Performance was not as critical arguably as the fan base was used to suffering for years and arguably more fanatical. The 2017 premiership was a shock to most RFC supporters

No comparision only contrast. RFC does not have forces working against them in Victoria like the Giants do in Sydney. Even the Queensland teams get a better go than Sydney teams including the Swans. Its obvious why there is more growth of Aussie Rules in Queensland than Sydney given the obstacles out in front of teams like the Swans and Giants which makes growing the market that much harder.

The importance of a performance orientated viable path towards a premiership for the Giants and success would be more critical to the Giants market I would have thought especially in fickle Sydney

Our older player Deledio was traded off to GWS. If you check RFC board bigfooty records will show I promoted this but I had no say in RFC's decision as I don't live in Victoria. Check the other RFC bigfooty posters who were annoyed at me promoting Lids possible departure at the time. I was talking about possible getting the picks used for Jack Martin in the mini draft and so forth for trading players out for years to fellow RFC fans displeasure but thats the reality and the virus brings home the business aspect as salary caps are compromised by external factors

Nice wide ranging post.

Changes nothing to what I said previous.

We aren’t throwing out players that the 17 other clubs would give their left nut for. That doesn’t build a culture that makes us a way station.

But thank you for your time.

 

[GWS Goose]

I am not talking from a Richmond perspective because I am not chasing them but part of the problem must be culture and leadership and in terms of windows GWS needs a reset.


Its not about who is on the table. Its about how and who is going to win a premiership and if you don't have that you have nothing no matter whats on the table cause I will not be grabbing a seat.

How is GWS going to communicate change and a re-start, how is GWS going to separate the renewed period from the failures of the past?

I not having a crack at certain people cause I am too far away to tell but I would trade out Haynes not on performance but age being 28 in terms of your window possibilities.

Put it this way, no one in real contention without real problems underneath puts up the sort of performance that was dished up last night versus the Swans without Heeney and others.

I would trade out Kelly but I thought he showed enough last night to prove to me he is untouchable for GWS and given his age important for your clubs future.

I thought Kelly stood up a little last night in terms of on field leadership, Greene has done it regularly and Taranto is your youngster with the output and potential to provide leadership for your youngsters. They are your clear leaders but I wouldn't toss out your youngsters. Hately could be traded to Adelaide if you want picks because you are going to need to rebuild your forward line/backline and ruck department

They have played in 4 consecutive finals series including 3 prelims and a GF with a terrible injury run. We beat Richmond and Collingwood in the last month and won 3 in a row. We are not playing well at the moment, but the way people are talking you'd think we were a basket case coming off a couple wooden spoons

 

[Mr Magic]

Nice wide ranging post.

Changes nothing to what I said previous.

We aren’t throwing out players that the 17 other clubs would give their left nut for. That doesn’t build a culture that makes us a way station.

But thank you for your time.

Thats just it, loyalty has no culture these days in the real world.

Its about performance and competing because you will not get a helping hand from the powers that be in Sydney who are loyal to others and rely on that loyalty for their own self gain and power base within a separate empire.

At least in Queensland they are more friendly and open to your excellence and what you have to offer and less power centric than Sydneysiders which is why AFL HQ's investment was wiser and more rewarding up there so the returns are more productive from a growth perspective

You can do what you like in your own bubble because the Sydney power base will carry on separate to you anyway. You will never get the attention of others if you cannot perform!

You are shut out just like Eddie McGuire was shut out, but you keep kicking goals within your own fishbowl if it makes you happy just don't anticipate the AFL HQ funds to keep flowing if Queensland moves ahead growing the market by installing more belief into others by greater performance and hope provided to by the clubs fostering more well being and being less insular and responsive to their markets appetite!

Toby Greenes efforts on field build more culture than any player retention strategies especially from players chasing a buck

 

[Colonial]

Thats just it, loyalty has no culture these days in the real world.

Its about performance and competing because you will not get a helping hand from the powers that be in Sydney who are loyal to others and rely on that loyalty for their own self gain and power base within a separate empire.

At least in Queensland they are more friendly and open to your excellence and what you have to offer and less power centric than Sydneysiders which is why AFL HQ's investment was wiser and more rewarding up there so the returns are more productive from a growth perspective

You can do what you like in your own bubble because the Sydney power base will carry on separate to you anyway. You will never get the attention of others if you cannot perform!

You are shut out just like Eddie McGuire was shut out, but you keep kicking goals within your own fishbowl if it makes you happy just don't anticipate the AFL HQ funds to keep flowing if Queensland moves ahead growing the market by installing more belief into others by greater performance and hope provided to by the clubs fostering more well being and being less insular and responsive to their markets appetite!

Toby Greenes efforts on field build more culture than any player retention strategies especially from players chasing a buck

You really do have no idea. Nice rant though[emoji106]

 

[Mr Magic]

You really do have no idea. Nice rant though[emoji106]

Thats why some feel like they are flogging a dead horse.

Clueless..

The youngsters can still believe, others might be aware of the con

 

[Colonial]

Thats why some feel like they are flogging a dead horse.

Clueless..

The youngsters can still believe, others might be aware of the con

Oh you are flogging something for sure, no doubt what so ever.

 

[PMBangers]

**** anyone else loving being told about your own list and club by opposition supporters?

 

[PMBangers]

Ultimately we're in some poor form, and this year is throwing things up so it's understandable. I don't think we've seen anything new tbh, the problems and list holes everyone is talking about we've seen and spoken about before. I personally think we should look to move on a guy like Hately (or even Hopper but that'd be less popular) to get some picks in/ free some cap space to address other problem areas for us.
Young KPD- someone that can partner Taylor for a decade or so is something we should look at imo, and someone with the scope to fill a Toby Greene role. How we achieve that I don't know, trading is one way, whether its bringing guys in or getting picks in.

 

[Colonial]

fu** anyone else loving being told about your own list and club by opposition supporters?

And how our club should treat players.

**** building a culture. Trade anyone that isn’t Tobes. [emoji2357]

 

[Giant Strides]

That was a very poor effort from our team versus Sydney, however, other games in this round have shown that it can happen: ladder leaders Port were humiliated by a greater margin, second-placed Lions almost lost the the replacement second-last team (and they've been much better than us all year), Crows still are totally crap. Nothing from other teams excuses our result, and I am still fuming at our individual and collective efforts, but does provide a perspective.

However, some of the analysis of our list by outside posters shows they have little clue. The talent is there on the list, and it's reasonably distributed across age ranges. The problem this year (and in other years) has been getting it all going at the same time.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Clarko would love your list, just saying

 

[Danny88]

Clarko would love your list, just saying

Doesn’t he currently play slow boring football too? Isn’t the hawthorn board just now blowing up about his inability to change?

 

[Del28562]

Why aren't you playing a young ruck, why am I watching two old men who should be insurance policy take turns on playing. Play Briggs and see what he can do, it reeks of no imagination from the coaches.

The midfield when green doesn't go through has a one pace sameness to it.

The untouchables are
Greene
Cogs
Kelly
Hopper
Taranto
Himmelberg
Williams
Ash
Haynes
Whitfield
Corr

All others should be on the trade table if you don't make finals

Needs are a young athletic ruck
Small pressure fwds
Outside pace

 

[Pres]

Why is Himmelberg untouchable but Cameron isn't?

 

[Mr Magic]

Why aren't you playing a young ruck, why am I watching two old men who should be insurance policy take turns on playing. Play Briggs and see what he can do, it reeks of no imagination from the coaches.

The midfield when green doesn't go through has a one pace sameness to it.

The untouchables are
Greene
Cogs
Kelly
Hopper
Taranto
Himmelberg
Williams
Ash
Haynes
Whitfield
Corr

All others should be on the trade table if you don't make finals

Needs are a young athletic ruck
Small pressure fwds
Outside pace

too many have free passes for mine.

Lets drop potential trade possibilities for the moment and look what players have to offer.

Lets assume GWS can't get rid of players even if they wanted to for whatever reason what would one do to improve the effectiveness of the current team list and who is playing on the field currently?

They played better as a team versus West Coast. Most would agree? I would say yes but happy to listen to different viewpoints. Toby Greene did not do a lot however they seemed to gel better at times.

Most of the players were more disciplined with the exception of the Taranto incident which one could put down to young frustration.

This is what I would do and I think Gerard Healy alluded to this in commentary. Why not consider Cameron up the ground? I simply think he was always more a CHF than a FF even in his peak. Against West Coast on the weekend he had moments up the ground marking the ball. I seen someone in a post said he prefers t out the back like a joe the goose play but really forwards can't play for that to happen because backlines are too smart for that. So why is Cameron in the square especially if Cameron is not that strong overhead according to one of your other posters? To me he reminds me of Richo except he is a weaker mark and better kick. I think he is better up the ground but even if you want him near goals why not play him half forward??

The other thing I question is the effectiveness of Coniglio as a inside mid. He does get tackled like on the weekend, but all players do, however under pressure in close I think he is not as agile with the dexterity of some others let alone the strength. How effective are his clearances especially under pressure or close attention relative to other options? Is Coniglio that effective as an inside mid and if not relative to others why play him there regularly? I would look at Coniglio at half back, half forward, possibly a wing or deeper forward at times. He has skill, kicked a nice goal, used his opposite foot well on the weekend, has reasonable speed, can do a lot of things well, but against the best is he one of your better options as inside mid? Apart from Hopper and others like Green, there are other options for the Giants like Kelly, Taranto of course, but I also like Greene and Williams inside at times but there are other talented players like Caldwell as well.

The other thing is what to do with Whitfield? Whitfield is a great kick, every one knows it. He can find space, racks up plenty of possessions. However, how effective is he really for GWS and can you rely on the method in finals especially against better opposition? If I am a supporter of GWS I am asking the question is Whitfield a trap? Whitfield clearly is not a bad player. But has Whitfield become a weakness for the Giants in terms of system because they are over reliant on him and his effectiveness is not as great against better pressure and defensive setups especially come finals? If I want the GWS to succeed surely I would prefer the Giants to be as robust as possible, not overly reliant on anyone and be more versatile and less predictable especially with all the talent supposedly at the lists disposal. Furthermore if I am the opposition do I want Whitfield pin pointing passes in the backline or closer to forward area causing goals? The thing is if Cameron is further up the ground as a link option is Whitfield's precision play needed as much from the backline especially if there are other options and can he be used more effectively elsewhere? Is Whitfield better played in a true wing role or even closer to the forward line create goal kicking opportunities for GWS forwards on the end of his precision?

The other obvious thing, without getting into too many subplots, is why was first gamer Riccardi so effective? Some of if was circumstance, not paid enough respect possibly, some of it ability but why now and why not earlier? If this guy can stand up will that not lift the GWS midfield and defence as well because they are starting to get more bang for their buck from the work they put in? I look at Riccardi and I see a nice kick, I see a young buck, I see someone with nice size one can develop, not too tall, not too big, can move seems quick enough at times and can move in the right places, agile enough for his role. Strangely, even though he is a first gamer, he offers more than some of a lot of the forwards currently to me individually in terms of output and goal scoring penetration. He can present, hold a mark, looks good enough in terms of providing more presence and holding a key post more effectively in a forward position so why not play him more?

To me these are things I would address for automatic structural improvement in my eyes without worrying about further subplots regarding roles of other players, how to play them and other flexible options including the big problem area such as the ruck?? Just on the rucks though, are the youngsters at GWS that bad especially since Riccardi seems to have been held back in another position?

The other thing, and its in the context of what Deledio said recently in terms of the team/players looking for the perfect play too much, and knowing how Cameron used to play with his precision kicking from the backline largely, is is the method and structural restrictions of play a potential reflection of a more limited scope from the coaches vision?? Cameron played with a precise kick where his effectiveness would mean his range of outcomes was relatively narrow due to his precision regardless of who was on the end of it. Is this viewpoint coming against him and the lists output in the way he coaches because is he not seeing enough range of outcomes and not considering enough other possibilities as a result of looking at things through his lens that may be too refined from his own past experience? Not everybody can kick it like Whitfield and part of the success of some players and teams is more on the side of winning the ball and being less reliant on the precision of the disposal from having increased contested capability of the receiver to win the ball even when disadvantaged. Sometimes a Ferrari loses out to a tank on the battlefield!! Downhill skiers are not that helpful when you need a tank to go into the troughs and mud and slime dodging the bullets to win the battle!!

 

[Colonial]

Why is Himmelberg untouchable but Cameron isn't?

Geelong fan who wants him.

 

[Pres]

Geelong fan who wants him.

That was my thinking too.