List Mgmt. 2020 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Shadow89]

to get you have to give

nothing is for free and no reason for Geelong to feel a sense of entitlement

Tom Lynch.

 

[Giant Pete]

Robbie Tarrant will be 32 at the start of next season for goodness sake.
Surely if we are looking for a defender we can find someone in the right age bracket.

 

[Giant Strides]

OK, so SITREP at this point in time.

Our 2020 list was 45, consisting of 38 main list, 5 Cat A rookies, & 2 Cat B rookies.

Assume (in the absence of facts from AFL House!) the 2021 list size will be 38-40 main list, 2-4 Cat A rookies (for a combined total of 42) & 2 Cat B rookies.

Current losses are Williams (bringing in a first round pick around 9), Corr (ideally bringing in an end of first round pick, but possibly just a second round pick around 29), Hately (if we're lucky and Crows trade reasonably around 30, if not 40 or later or nothing), and Jacobs, Shaw & Sheridan (Cat A rookie) retired/delisted.

Buckley upgraded from Cat B rookie (end of his permissible 3 year stint).

I assume we'll aim for 38 on the main list so current numbers: 34 (38 - 5 + 1) main list, 4 Cat A rookie, 1 Cat B rookie.

That leaves us basically 4 spots to pick up + 1 Cat B rookie (possibly Josh Green from our academy) using picks around 9, 20-30, maybe 30 or 40, 40 & 46. Preuss or Hickey for the ruck spot: Preuss probably requires around a 30 pick, Hickey would be the 46.

The other possible losses could be: Jezza (bringing in a first round pick around 10 if FA; if Geelong and we matched to force a trade then perhaps two picks around 12 & 14), Caldwell (hopefully Saints' first round pick around 15/16), O'Halloran (not much unfortunately, somewhere in the 30s unless we play hardball) & Langdon (not much, pick in the 50s, could be a straight swap for Hickey if we cannot get Preuss).

I'm also of the view that Sproule is not a guarantee to stay on the list, and it may depend on what else happens with the list.

Worst case, we lose all 4 possibles, and we are at 30/38 main list, 4/4 Cat A rookie, 1/2 Cat B rookie. Pick up a ruck and it's 31/38, but still that's 7 spots to fill - which I don't think we can/should be all from the draft - it's too high risk and leaves us very inexperienced in the backup department.

We would have roughly picks 9, 10 (if Jezza FA), 16, 20-30 & some 30s & 40s picks. Ideally if we could bundle up and sell some of those later picks to a club needing points for academy matching, or a team with a few holes to fill (such as Norths) that would leave us with 5 decent picks in the first & second round - so then perhaps looking at a couple of reasonable delisted FAs. Happy to look at any decent trades that might assist us fill gaps, but that obviously takes out drafting currency. GWS could obviously look to trade up to try to get an earlier first round pick at the cost of a couple of those (e.g. Carlton splitting it's pick #7 for Saad) - but that would mean even more likely to want to grab some experienced player(s) to compensate.

Possibly:

• Tom Phillips as a 2-way running winger - in contract for next year but likely to be squeezed out of Collingwood for salary cap reasons, we could spring him for a 30s pick I'd hope.
• Maybe Will Snelling, a small forward from Essendon not currently with a contract.
• As a left field option, if we lost Jezza, could we look at someone like Brody Mihocek: pay him more than Pies are willing but less than Jezza (so we obviously have the $)? He's not a star, but a solid reliable player while Riccardi is learning the ropes.
• I suggested tongue-in-cheek yesterday Jesse Hogan - but could he be an actual option for us? The risk is his mindset, and also he probably costs too much. (I'm not in favour, but throw the thought out there!)
• I've previously talked about options such as Witherden, Hartigan, Carlisle, Daw, Cedric Cox.

As an aside, my comments on Jezza - and TBH I really don't want to lose him. But if he was to go to Geelong, I cannot see that they would be paying him much (if any) more than us ... any move would be due to other factors clouding his mind. Therefore, I think that we would be able to match their price, since (my understanding is) we only have to match the total amount and we'd be close enough in the near years to have capacity at the back end to add a little for the match. That would require Cats to trade for him, which we could force as 2 first round picks rather than just the one we'd get from FA; even though the first one would be a couple of spots below the FA pick. I would still think that's a better outcome.

We would obviously also hope that Crouch stays at Adelaide or also goes to Geelong, and Daniher is a cheap pickup for Brisbane, so neither dilute our own FA picks in mid-first round.

Absolute best case scenario for us would be something like 9, 12, 14, 16, 22, but reasonably it's going to be considerably less than that.

 

[Giant Pete]

I reckon we bring in Phillips, Preuss and Tommy Bugg!

 

[Giant Strides]

I reckon we bring in Phillips, Preuss and Tommy Bugg!

Yes, I hadn't mentioned Tommy, but if we lose all 3 of Caldwell, Hately & O'Halloran, I'd be happy to bring him back. Costs nothing for cheap cover, and could play a defensive forward or defender role too.

I do think we need some speed in the guys who come in (irrespective of draft or trade), but obviously trades need to be targeted based on (1) who's available and (2) who's willing to come to Sydney.

 

[Giant Strides]

To me, getting Tom Phillips would be useful. While his disposal is meant to be not so good (but then, apart from Whitfield, who in the Giants is a good user of the ball, he is a willing two way runner. It would allow us initially next year to drop Lachie back into the Williams role (where he won an AA), and still have a great runner on the wing. Lachie can act as a distributor with Cumming & Ash to run off him, and Perryman to be a general utility down the back (or on the opposite wing). I wouldn't necessarily keep Lachie in that role long term, but losing Heater and Williams in the same year leaves us with a couple of holes to fill at the same time.

 

[Giant Pete]

To me, getting Tom Phillips would be useful. While his disposal is meant to be not so good (but then, apart from Whitfield, who in the Giants is a good user of the ball, he is a willing two way runner. It would allow us initially next year to drop Lachie back into the Williams role (where he won an AA), and still have a great runner on the wing. Lachie can act as a distributor with Cumming & Ash to run off him, and Perryman to be a general utility down the back (or on the opposite wing). I wouldn't necessarily keep Lachie in that role long term, but losing Heater and Williams in the same year leaves us with a couple of holes to fill at the same time.

I personally think cumming and Ash could do it well, with Lachie back there occasionally.

 

[Giant Strides]

I personally think cumming and Ash could do it well, with Lachie back there occasionally.

I hope so, it's just you've got two guys with less than 10 games experience each. It's a steep call for them to do it alone - I'd like to have a season where there's a more experienced head providing direction ... then hopefully they could take it from there.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Robbie Tarrant will be 32 at the start of next season for goodness sake.
Surely if we are looking for a defender we can find someone in the right age bracket.

32 is ok if you think the list can win a flag. Our overall age demographic is pretty good. He’s been pretty durable which is something Phil is struggling with. He’s highly unlikely.

Hate the idea of Bugg, he’s a basic player and will just rot in reserves.

 

[Giant Strides]

Cats board is reporting Tom Browne indicating Jezza is likely to stay at GWS.

"Tom Browne who seems to be giving 12 hourly updates said the Cameron has told people close to him that he wants to stay at the Giants.

Says it’s unlikely the Cats will get their man."

Hope so!

 

[Colonial]

Cats board is reporting Tom Browne indicating Jezza is likely to stay at GWS.

"Tom Browne who seems to be giving 12 hourly updates said the Cameron has told people close to him that he wants to stay at the Giants.

Says it’s unlikely the Cats will get their man."

Hope so!

Ffs I hope so.

But usually whatever Browne says it’s the opposite.

Just get it done and we are set.

 

[Giant Strides]

Ffs I hope so.

But usually whatever Browne says it’s the opposite.

Just get it done and we are set.

Yep. Until they announce an actual signed contract, have to remain skeptical.

 

[fridgeman]

I think some very unrealistic options are being put up here, Tarrant I cant see leaving Melbourne and if the club was keen the money required would not work for the club, I cant see Bugg making it back on a list not sure what he has done with his time away from the game but he would have lost a lot in that time and he could be a reserves player but not worth a list spot

Still no announcement on the delisted players from the club so not sure what the hold up is but I think it was late last year

I dont doubt that Cameron is seeing what the Cats have too offer but I think it could be a way of seeing what he could get from another club and then he and his manager can go back to the club and say this is the Cats offer and this is what is required for the player to re-sign. Hopefully it is in the 800-850 mark and they can find a business investment for him or a fishing show appearance fee

Caldwell is a hard one and I can potentially see him in the best 22 next year and with a midfield rotation but it could come down to money and if he is tempted by the money on offer from the other clubs

Langdon again is hard to get a read on and it could be down to the end of year interview and what the coaches think his prospects are at the club and it will be another loss of depth that effects the club going forward so hopefully he stays

Tom Phillips seems like he would fit the requirements for the club but it depends on if he would be interested in a move to Sydney and how much money it would take and also if the Pies are open to a trade. Aged 24 and 74 games so he would add some experience to the list and addresses the need for some outside run

Witherden would be a great option and a better option than Phillips but the same issues exist with how much money would it take for him to move to Sydney v what the Lions or a Vic club could offer him

Hopefully a experienced ruck comes in and either Hickey or Preuss hopefully is a upgrade on this year and it allows Flynn and Briggs to step in when required

Brander is one I would be keen on if they see him as a potential defender he would fit in nicely as ex academy and although Keefe and Davis are still on the list for 21 I could see a permanent spot in 22 for him

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Robbie Tarrant will be 32 at the start of next season for goodness sake.
Surely if we are looking for a defender we can find someone in the right age bracket.

We have Kyle Hartigan who is 28 & a free agent. Our issue is he is the same age as Talia & we need to rebuild with the likes of McAsey. Not a gun, but serviceable. Strong & quick... just decision making can be suspect... but just get him to give off to one of your running backmen.

Is pick 29 fair for Hately? Doubt we go the PSD route.

Hope you hold on to Jezza.

 

[PMBangers]

We have Kyle Hartigan who is 28 & a free agent. Our issue is he is the same age as Talia & we need to rebuild with the likes of McAsey. Not a gun, but serviceable. Strong & quick... just decision making can be suspect... but just get him to give off to one of your running backmen.

Is pick 29 fair for Hately? Doubt we go the PSD route.

Hope you hold on to Jezza.

I'd be happy with 29 for Hately in a normal year, but I expect that gets knocked back 5-6 picks by FA compo and then 3 or 4 more due to bids. For that reason I'd be happy to throw in a third rounder with Hately to get your second rounder or your Atkins Compo if that ends up being Band 2/3

 

[Giant Strides]

We have Kyle Hartigan who is 28 & a free agent. Our issue is he is the same age as Talia & we need to rebuild with the likes of McAsey. Not a gun, but serviceable. Strong & quick... just decision making can be suspect... but just get him to give off to one of your running backmen.

Is pick 29 fair for Hately? Doubt we go the PSD route.

Hope you hold on to Jezza.

Kyle Hartigan is one who has been briefly discussed in this thread. There are mixed feelings amongst GWS fans about Kyle - none strongly in favour of getting him. I think we understand he's a bit of a whipping boy for Crows fans, but that he's not as bad as the worst descriptions. But neither is he a gun, otherwise you wouldn't be looking to move him on. Adelaide and GWS are probably in similar positions with the experience mix and aiming to develop younger KPDs, with Taylor just a touch older than McAsey. We would have preferred to have held Corr longer, but I would think we were looking for another young KPD in this year's draft to develop. Therefore, I'm not sure whether we could be bothered to grab Hartigan - at 2 years older than Corr he's probably got only 3 years left in him. As a cheap option for a backup, I'd probably be happy enough; but I suspect the club would not.

For Hately, pick 29 after two years of development is very poor return. Kids can't expect to walk into a club and immediately become guaranteed first graders - even someone selected in the first round - and his development has been at a normal rate. But they don't seem to accept that situation, and in the case of interstate kids, which unfortunately GWS is always going to have to rely on, always look for the easy out for home, opportunity or $ (or for Hately - all 3!). I know that Crows have suffered similar in the past, so I'm not telling you anything new. So in the circumstances, with PSD an option or 3rd & 4th round picks, 29 is the best we could hope for, and it's still useful for trading or the national draft this year.

As PMBangers said, it's poorer this year given all of the likely pushbacks, but hey, what can we do?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Kyle Hartigan is one who has been briefly discussed in this thread. There are mixed feelings amongst GWS fans about Kyle - none strongly in favour of getting him. I think we understand he's a bit of a whipping boy for Crows fans, but that he's not as bad as the worst descriptions. But neither is he a gun, otherwise you wouldn't be looking to move him on. Adelaide and GWS are probably in similar positions with the experience mix and aiming to develop younger KPDs, with Taylor just a touch older than McAsey. We would have preferred to have held Corr longer, but I would think we were looking for another young KPD in this year's draft to develop. Therefore, I'm not sure whether we could be bothered to grab Hartigan - at 2 years older than Corr he's probably got only 3 years left in him. As a cheap option for a backup, I'd probably be happy enough; but I suspect the club would not.

For Hately, pick 29 after two years of development is very poor return. Kids can't expect to walk into a club and immediately become guaranteed first graders - even someone selected in the first round - and his development has been at a normal rate. But they don't seem to accept that situation, and in the case of interstate kids, which unfortunately GWS is always going to have to rely on, always look for the easy out for home, opportunity or $ (or for Hately - all 3!). I know that Crows have suffered similar in the past, so I'm not telling you anything new. So in the circumstances, with PSD an option or 3rd & 4th round picks, 29 is the best we could hope for, and it's still useful for trading or the national draft this year.

As PMBangers said, it's poorer this year given all of the likely pushbacks, but hey, what can we do?

Given the Crows history of bidding on players, there may be some push forwards too.

We could take out the 1st 3 picks for the Bullies & send them into points deficit for next year.

 

[Giant Strides]

Given the Crows history of bidding on players, there may be some push forwards too.

We could take out the 1st 3 picks for the Bullies & send them into points deficit for next year.

True. Although I suspect you'll trade and not bid, but Norths or Hawks should, and hence pull a few picks forward.

 

[Giant Pete]

I think 29 for Hately is where it should land.
I don’t think we need Hartigan. I’d like us to look at someone in the 23-26 age bracket.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

 

[Colonial]

As long as we don’t pay to much for him in trade and payment.

Think we lose 1 of Flynn or Briggs now, they still haven’t got a go and that must weigh on them.

 

[Simmofreo]

As long as we don’t pay to much for him in trade and payment.

Think we lose 1 of Flynn or Briggs now, they still haven’t got a go and that must weigh on them.

True, but I think this is a great move. Our ruckman are always too old or too young.

It's bout time we had someone proven in the middle.

I like it

On CPH2009 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Colonial]

True, but I think this is a great move. Our ruckman are always too old or too young.

It's bout time we had someone proven in the middle.

I like it

On CPH2009 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Is he proven though? he has played for 2 clubs where he was always number 2.

 

[dlanod]

Is he proven though? he has played for 2 clubs where he was always number 2.

I've seen him play well when he's been a #1 option in a few games for North.

It's more a concern that he wasn't the preferred option when Gawn missed games this year though, as that suggests he's regressed.

 

[Colonial]

 

[GWS Goose]

Is he proven though? he has played for 2 clubs where he was always number 2.

This is exactly my view.
Yep, he was stuck behind 2 stars, so not being selected doesn't mean he is no good, but he has really got the runs on the board.

As has also been mentioned, Melbourne first selecting Luke Jackson and than playing him ahead of Preuss isn't a ringing endorsement for him either.

Hope he does well, but for me, he isn't the sure bet that others seem to think.

is this an indictment that we dont think the young rucks have it.