List Mgmt. 2020 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Shadow89]

to get you have to give

nothing is for free and no reason for Geelong to feel a sense of entitlement

Tom Lynch.

 

[PMBangers]

Paid too much for Cogs etc and now this is the result. Can't have everyone on big deals. Agree he could command a lot more on the open market.

(He'd be great at North and we have squillions in cap space....)

Norths first actual big name signing in their war chest period? The amount of pressure and attention that he'd get would probably put him well off of that idea. The big thing to consider with Cameron is lifestyle. If he wasn't an AFL footballer he'd be a professional fisherman or something else lowkey. Honestly think Sydney, Brisbane and Geelong would be the most likely options with their lists and the lifestyle on offer

 

[Colonial]

Paid too much for Cogs etc and now this is the result. Can't have everyone on big deals. Agree he could command a lot more on the open market.

(He'd be great at North and we have squillions in cap space....)

1- we have no idea what was paid for cogs.
2- I wouldn’t judge him on 2020.
3- It would be a 1st for a big name to head to north from us. He isn’t a limelight kind of person and if being the “saviour” of North turned Kelly away then it would certainly turn Cameron. Not saying they were the only reasons.
Especially when North have just delisted or put up for trade allot of their side.

 

[SouthernGiant]

From a club insider...

Club has offered Jezza 5 x $900k. Manager is being a dick and demands minimum $1m per year.

Giants cant afford anymore.

Assuming the above is correct, I think the clubs offer is fair and they should not budge.

 

[Colonial]

 

[Colonial]

From a club insider...

Club has offered Jezza 5 x $900k. Manager is being a dick and demands minimum $1m per year.

Giants cant afford anymore.

Assuming the above is correct, I think the clubs offer is fair and they should not budge.

I would say that’s a great deal considering what he was paid supposedly previously.

Would love for him to stay but not at the cost of the list.

Jezza stick around 5 years at 900k is nothing to sneeze at. It’s still more than Greene gets

 

[Colonial]

Anyone know when our end of season interviews are? Have they happened?

 

[Andre the Giant]

I think with the very strong likelihood we will have 3 first round selections including 2 in the first dozen (I feel Jezza will leave) plus possibly 3 second rounders we have the opportunity to address need (KPD) and ruck (Trade) and use the picks to get high up and get a really high end talent.

The kid I absolutely love is Will Phillips. This guy is tough, he has good agility, uses the ball beautifully and is dual sided, has quick hands and 360 vision, looks like he has a tank and is very versatile. At 180cms he’s not tall but his other attributes more than make up for it. If we could get him and a nice KPD from this draft I would be over the moon. Here are his highlights:

 

[captainMyCaptain]

I think with the very strong likelihood we will have 3 first round selections including 2 in the first dozen (I feel Jezza will leave) plus possibly 3 second rounders we have the opportunity to address need (KPD) and ruck (Trade) and use the picks to get high up and get a really high end talent.

The kid I absolutely love is Will Phillips. This guy is tough, he has good agility, uses the ball beautifully and is dual sided, looks like he has a tank and is very versatile. At 180cms he’s not tall but his other attributes more than make up for it. If we could get him and a nice KPD from this draft I would be over the moon. Here are his highlights:

Absolute gun and came across exceptionally well in his interview on Road to the draft

 

[Giant Pete]

I think with the very strong likelihood we will have 3 first round selections including 2 in the first dozen (I feel Jezza will leave) plus possibly 3 second rounders we have the opportunity to address need (KPD) and ruck (Trade) and use the picks to get high up and get a really high end talent.

The kid I absolutely love is Will Phillips. This guy is tough, he has good agility, uses the ball beautifully and is dual sided, has quick hands and 360 vision, looks like he has a tank and is very versatile. At 180cms he’s not tall but his other attributes more than make up for it. If we could get him and a nice KPD from this draft I would be over the moon. Here are his highlights:

Cameron will stay. And we won’t be able to get high up enough to get will Phillips.

 

[Colonial]

Cameron will stay. And we won’t be able to get high up enough to get will Phillips.

If he won’t accept 900k a year for 5 years then I hope we don’t go higher.

Love Jezza but he got a great deal for the last quite a few years and still a great deal at 900k going forward.

Manager wants to play silly buggers he can play for North with, how many players they got left?

 

[Andre the Giant]

Cameron will stay. And we won’t be able to get high up enough to get will Phillips.

I believe he is very torn as to what to do and that has been a big reason for his form this year. As we speak I’d say more likely to go but it’s 50/50.

RE Phillips he will go high but if we package a few picks together we can trade up from the compensation position. He would be absolutely perfect for us. We’re traded up previously for Taranto and Ash and got ourselves where we needed to be.

We don’t need pretty vanilla squad players, we need to address need and bring in difference makers.

 

[Colonial]

My understanding re Cameron is it’s not just money it’s other things. I believe he is very torn as to what to do and that has been a big reason for his form this year. As we speak I’d say more likely to go but it’s 50/50.

RE Phillips he will go high but if we package a few picks together we can trade up from the compensation position. He would be absolutely perfect for us. We’re traded up previously for Taranto and Ash and got ourselves where we needed to be.

We don’t need pretty vanilla squad players, we need to address need and bring in difference makers.

What’s the “other things”?

 

[PMBangers]

We don’t need pretty vanilla squad players, we need to address need and bring in difference makers.

Isn't a sub 180cm inside mid the definition of vanilla? A real POD type would be an O'Driscoll/ Bruhn who are more hybrid types that can play wing/ forward roles as well

 

[Andre the Giant]

Isn't a sub 180cm inside mid the definition of vanilla? A real POD type would be an O'Driscoll/ Bruhn who are more hybrid types that can play wing/ forward roles as well

You mean like Rowell or the best player in the comp Lachie Neale. Height is overrated we need need class and our midfield needs balance.

This kid plays contest to contest but when he gets it he uses it efficiently and well. He would extract and connect, something we rent doing very well.

 

[Andre the Giant]

What’s the “other things”?

I understand he wants to be a half forward lead in rather than centre square player. He has been bashed up a bit, maybe that’s why.

 

[PMBangers]

You mean like Rowell.

Rowell is an exceptionally skilled inside midfielder, that's his point of difference to an entire competition, Phillips doesn't have that skill, he's a little more zippy but no where near Rowell for skill and game sense. If we've got two top 10 picks, without a doubt take a shot at Phillips if he falls to us, but I'm not seeing him fulfil a need like Green, Ash or Taranto were/ have to warrant trading up the order to get him. After bids we'd get say, 12 and 13 if Cameron also leaves, I'm much more comfortable using those on a Carroll/ Ford and Cox/ Reid if available

 

[Colonial]

Game style, he wants a different role. I understand he wants to be a half forward lead in rather than centre square player. He has been bashed up a bit, maybe that’s why. Can you justify paying the amounts quoted for that player...

Chears, in saying that I’m amazed a player is saying we have a game style after this season.

900k? Well happy with that if he can get back into form. But more? No

 

[Andre the Giant]

Rowell is an exceptionally skilled inside midfielder, that's his point of difference to an entire competition, Phillips doesn't have that skill, he's a little more zippy but no where near Rowell for skill and game sense. If we've got two top 10 picks, without a doubt take a shot at Phillips if he falls to us, but I'm not seeing him fulfil a need like Green, Ash or Taranto were/ have to warrant trading up the order to get him. After bids we'd get say, 12 and 13 if Cameron also leaves, I'm much more comfortable using those on a Carroll/ Ford and Cox/ Reid if available

We agree on many things but we’ll disagree on this one. By the way Phillips has improved considerably and is much more balanced now. He could go inside but also outside which I think is what we need. The one paced inside players dominate our list.

He’s not Rowell but nobody is, that guy is going to be the best player we’ve seen in years if he stays fit. He is the same height and my point went to height and the notion of that somehow being vanilla.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Chears, in saying that I’m amazed a player is saying we have a game style after this season.

900k? Well happy with that if he can get back into form. But more? No

When I say game style it relates to him and the way he is used.

He doesn’t want to be a crash ‘n’ bash centre square type player he wants to be used on wings and half forward more to use his attributes of speed and kicking.

He’s probably the best field kick in the team but the trouble is he is also the best goalkicker and attacking threat when in form!

 

[PMBangers]

We agree on many things but we’ll disagree on this one. By the way Phillips has improved considerably and is much more balanced now. He could go inside but also outside which I think is what we need. The one paced inside players dominate.

He’s not Rowell but nobody is, that guy is going to be the best player we’ve seen in years if he stays fit. He is the same height and my point went to height.

Height wise, sure Rowell and Phillips are a good comparison but excel in different things. Idk about the improvement and adding balance to his game when he hasn't played since grand final day last year competitively, the only thing I'd be reading into for the VIC kids is any strength and endurance improvements as that's an easily quantifiable improvement, without a season of APS/NAB League or champs game improvements are too much guess work. Phillips is a great prospect and I suspect probably the most round 1 ready, and I'm more than happy selecting him at one of our first rounders (or only if Jez stays please) but I'm not selling the farm to get him, especially with how good the midfield options for next years draft look that'll have more easy to track performances. In saying that, I trust our recruiting team enough that if they trade up and select Phillips that it's the right call.

 

[Giant Strides]

Two interesting discussions.

With Jezza, I'm torn. Obviously highly talented, and given he's the last of our original 17 year old selections, I really don't want to lose him. Especially since a single FA compo pick around 10 (which will be further pushed back) is inadequate compensation for losing him. But while $900k might seem unders for a player of his talent, he has been well paid in his time with GWS to date, and if he wants to taste premiership success, he needs to be a team player and allow the club to keep other good players around him by not pressing for every last cent he could earn. So I understand the club holding the line.

I've just seen the comment on his preferred playing style, and I can see his concern. I've always thought that Jezza needed to kick it to himself! He is the best penetrating kick into the forward 50, but when he's on the receiving end, he rarely gets it delivered how he wants it. But that also means he needs other players on the team who are good enough to help him!

On Will Phillips, he's well rated although considered a notch below Rowell, has some zip away from the contest - which we could do with - but still has questions over his kicking efficiency (so, like many inside mids including Cogs, Taranto & Hopper!). Because he is seen as a bit vanilla (and I think the description is made worse by comparison with Rowell), I can see him not selected in the earliest picks - those going on the highly rated talls & Elijah Hollands - but I can't see he'd make it pass Bombers/Carlton/Crows. So we'd need to trade into that region - presumably they'd want both of those compensation picks to do so, and I'm not convinced Phillips is that much of a game changer on the players we currently have. Don't get me wrong, I think the ''vanilla'' tag is a bit wrong, but he doesn't scream ''two top draft picks'' worth for me. Given the multiple losses we are taking this year, I'd prefer to actually use all of the picks we get and trust the recruiting team to select the right players to help us.

That said, if Nathan O'Driscoll was there at our pick, I'd be ecstatic. He's got the same knock as others on his kicking, but has the speed and endurance to be a more balanced inside/outside midfielder, which is what I do think we could benefit from. He looks like he could be thrown onto a wing, or onto half-back flank initially, and do a job for us, and those are two problem areas for me.

Otherwise, I'd see the Perkins/Ford/Carroll outside/forward types, and a KPD Cox/Chapman as valuable pickups. Heath Chapman intrigues me. I'm seeing his role in juniors as somewhat similar to how Nick Haynes plays. With several years left in Haynes, he's not a type we really need, but given the loss of Corr, with Davis & Taylor back in, could he be that third tall - the most exciting aspect of his description is that he's a precise kick! I could perceive him taking either tall or small, rebounding well, and in a few years maybe more entirely taking over Haynes' intercepting role.

Now, if Jezza nominated Swans, I can't see how they'd have much more cap space than us to take him, so we could potentially match the offer and trade for him. In which case, pick 3 (plus something more) might be achievable. Will Phillips would be right in the mix in that case. But I think that's a pie-in-the-sky scenario.

 

[PMBangers]

Replacing Haynes is less vital imo as replacing Davis. Worst case is Taylor can move into a more Haynes like role, but I have very little faith in any of our young KPD prospects to develop into a number 1 or number 2 KPD. I like Idun as a possible Corr replacement in a couple of seasons, but he hasn't shown anything to suggest he can play a shutdown role on the Kings, Naughtons or Hipwoods going into the future. Cox and Reid are non negotiables if there for me, and looking at next years draft, I'd be ok with waiting a year for more mids/ fwds if the club thought bringing in Davis and Haynes replacements in the same year was a smart move. Sort of locks in our future backline as being

??? - Taylor - ???
Ash - Cox/ Reid - Chapman

And I could certainly live with that. If Jezza leaves, working up for McDonald wouldn't be a terrible idea either, but like Phillips I'm not sure I'd want to sell the farm for him

 

[Giant Strides]

Replacing Haynes is less vital imo as replacing Davis. Worst case is Taylor can move into a more Haynes like role, but I have very little faith in any of our young KPD prospects to develop into a number 1 or number 2 KPD. I like Idun as a possible Corr replacement in a couple of seasons, but he hasn't shown anything to suggest he can play a shutdown role on the Kings, Naughtons or Hipwoods going into the future. Cox and Reid are non negotiables if there for me, and looking at next years draft, I'd be ok with waiting a year for more mids/ fwds if the club thought bringing in Davis and Haynes replacements in the same year was a smart move.

Absolutely agree regarding Haynes not yet needing to be replaced, and wanting a 1st/2nd KPD this draft to develop - hence my earlier discussion around Jake Stein's development and whether we needed to look at an interim experienced KPD as well as a draftee. (Although I see Taylor becoming the Davis replacement, and needing a sidekick developed. That may be Jake Stein for a few years, or Idun - although he seems too short for the KPD role.) I too had looked primarily at Reid and Cox looking to be a future 1st/2nd KPD; it's just some recent review of player discussions etc has made me a bit wary of taking Reid so early, and Cox certainly has a reasonable amount of development required. Chapman has popped into my mind in a similar way to GWS taking Sam Taylor when he wasn't deemed a need, but was too good to pass up given the circumstances. Obviously, these are just my thoughts and I'm no draft recruiter!

I must admit that I am not a great fan of this year's draft - I think it's worse than previous drafts in a number of areas - so I'm probably tending to cherrypick who I think might work best for us. (Obviously with no recruiting science behind me!) I guess that's the fun of this period of the year - every fan has their own thoughts and ''what if ... '' assessment of the draft and team needs.

 

[PMBangers]

Absolutely agree regarding Haynes not yet needing to be replaced, and wanting a 1st/2nd KPD this draft to develop - hence my earlier discussion around Jake Stein's development and whether we needed to look at an interim experienced KPD as well as a draftee. (Although I see Taylor becoming the Davis replacement, and needing a sidekick developed. That may be Jake Stein for a few years, or Idun - although he seems too short for the KPD role.) I too had looked primarily at Reid and Cox looking to be a future 1st/2nd KPD; it's just some recent review of player discussions etc has made me a bit wary of taking Reid so early, and Cox certainly has a reasonable amount of development required. Chapman has popped into my mind in a similar way to GWS taking Sam Taylor when he wasn't deemed a need, but was too good to pass up given the circumstances. Obviously, these are just my thoughts and I'm no draft recruiter!

I must admit that I am not a great fan of this year's draft - I think it's worse than previous drafts in a number of areas - so I'm probably tending to cherrypick who I think might work best for us. (Obviously with no recruiting science behind me!) I guess that's the fun of this period of the year - every fan has their own thoughts and ''what if ... '' assessment of the draft and team needs.

I agree Cox and Reid definitely need development, and a lot to go right to be the players we'll want them to be, I'd only look at them if we had two firsts. Chapman certainly a good player, and could see the argument for best available at where our picks are likely to land so it'll be interesting to see, I think the big theme of this year will be clubs genuinely mean it when they say "We rated him a lot higher" because of how much guesswork will be done filling the between spots with vic kids.
Agree with this draft being weak as well, I'm seeing that top 5 as the place to be, then 5-20 as decent and after that will be pretty shakey, there will be bargains with VIC Kids though. This is why I'm pretty stubborn with waiting for next year for any big trade ups for certain prospects, looks a lot better than this year and last year.

 

[Giant Strides]

It will be a year that the recruiting team earns their money (and reputation!) for sure. As much for who they don't take as well as for who they do take a punt on. Hopefully, our recruiting team is tuned into who's developing well who are not seen so much by the amateur draft watchers.