List Mgmt. 2020 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

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GWS Goose said:
I think we can get to that by finding a way to still get the compensation pick, we'll also give you guys a few picks back. Geelong probably give up a pick in the teens and a player. We'll give whatever we get for Hately and a pick in the 30's, maybe something else. We'll get the compensation pick, a pick in the teens and a player. Geelong get Cameron and a few later picks.
Click to expand...

I dont know what type of side deal could be arrived at ..but if something can be wroked out obviously it would make it easier to get done...Id think future picks would beneficial in that type of trade and perhaps a 3rd party. What would Hogan be worth?

In the end , if people like Rendell & SOS are to be believed Wells likes both clubs to feel like its win win then a deal of some sort is likely
 
Turbocat said:
Typically a reasonable trade is when both sides feel they have given too much ground, so Id say Geelong will give more than they want and GWS will get less than they want. I suspect there are posters from all teams that take POV that would struggle to get something done... yes and some can be as you describe.

What is your want? 2r1 picks and a player ?
Click to expand...
that is clearly overs
 
sydney_gws said:
that is clearly overs
Click to expand...

Well I will let you say that on you board... what do you feel will get the transfer done. I have said in multiple posts that probably 2 R1' get it done.

I know several players have been mentioned... if the player was happy to move and he fitted into that range of accpetable to both parties then its realistic. Hard in afl to push trade players. Collingwood are having a good try at it atm.

Do you have any academy players next year you need points for?
 

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Turbocat said:
Well I will let you say that on you board... what do you feel will get the transfer done. I have said in multiple posts that probably 2 R1' get it done.

I know several players have been mentioned... if the player was happy to move and he fitted into that range of accpetable to both parties then its realistic. Hard in afl to push trade players. Collingwood are having a good try at it atm.

Do you have any academy players next year you need points for?
Click to expand...
Our only draftable academy player is the next Green of the rank. He'll be late draft or rookie list by all reports.

Think Carusso and Wells will get creative and use the compensation pick somehow. It'll get done, and these 2 have a history of finding a way, neither have egos about winning the trade, both focused on the end result. I remember Carusso saying with one trade when suggested that they probably could have got more, he said yeah possibly, but it was enough for what we needed to do. In reality that is the most important part of it.
 
Last edited:
GWS Goose said:
I think we can get to that by finding a way to still get the compensation pick, we'll also give you guys a few picks back. Geelong probably give up a pick in the teens and a player. We'll give whatever we get for Hately and a pick in the 30's, maybe something else. We'll get the compensation pick, a pick in the teens and a player. Geelong get Cameron and a few later picks.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with that although it might be extra picks if geelong cant find a player who is willing to be a part of the deal.
 
Gary Buckenara analyses Greater Western Sydney’s list after the 2020 season

It’s time for GWS to draw a line in the sand and give Jeremy Cameron and Geelong an ultimatum. Match the free agency bid and demand a trade from the Cats that includes one of five players or he goes into the draft. Read Gary Buckenara’s full list analysis.


Greater Western Sydney is suffering from ‘Spoiled Child Syndrome’. It’s all about individuals over the team and their poor season this year has exposed the problem.

As the old saying goes: A champion team will always beat a team of individual champions and this is the case at the Giants. There appears to be an underlying selfishness within the playing group, which is what separates the good teams from the great ones.

But there are bigger issues. GWS has a major player retention problem and have been quietly going down the same path as Gold Coast without anyone noticing because they’ve still played finals – until now.

In the last five years the following players (still on AFL lists) have left – Adam Treloar, Jack Steele, Will Hoskin-Elliott and Caleb Marchbank (all 2016), Devon Smith and Nathan Wilson (2017), Dylan Shiel, Rory Lobb and Tom Scully (2018), Adam Tomlinson and Jon Patton (2019), while Jeremy Cameron, Zac Williams and Aidan Corr are the established players leaving this year. Cameron’s departure is a disaster.

It doesn’t end there. Many excuse these departures because GWS has been able to orchestrate trade deals to receive, in some cases, two first-round draft picks. But now the players they selected with those picks also want out.

Jackson Hately(pick 14 in the 2018 draft) and Jye Caldwell (pick 11, 2018) are the next players in a long list after requesting a trade to Adelaide and Essendon respectively. Last year Aiden Bonar (pick 11, 2017) left, the year before Will Setterfield (pick 5, 2016 and from their academy!) and Matt Kennedy (pick 13 in 2015 also from the academy) in 2016.

That’s 19 players still in the AFL system that have left the Giants. It’s nearly a whole starting team. It’s a serious problem and one the club must act immediately to fix because continuing to trade out stars for first-round picks is no way to build a premiership-winning list, especially if the players drafted with those picks also depart a few years later.

GWS coach Leon Cameron, chief executive David Matthews and the board must build a culture where players see a future at the club and where there’s a team-first and selfless attitude with a hunger for on-field success. It starts from the top and filters down. That will assist the list management team, which needs to better manage the Total Player Payments (TPP), where players are willing to accept less money to stay because they see the opportunity to win premierships, similar to how Geelong have operated.

The Giants’ list is in good shape on paper, with 12 A and B-ranked players and eight players aged 21 or under with the potential to become A or B-graders (excluding the players set to depart) but if they can’t keep the group together, they’ll keep threatening but won’t win a premiership.

GWS must snap out of being happy to continue this player merry-go-round and get serious. It’s no way to manage a list and definitely no way to win a flag.

LIST NEEDS

It’s time to draw a line in the sand. Keep the required players and make it harder for players to leave the club.

Did the Grand Final loss break their spirit? It should have built a strong resolve and driven the players harder to make amends but it didn’t. The Giants must rethink the strategies that were in place by reviewing all areas of the football department and the playing list to find answers quickly and implement a plan to build and develop a list of selfless and club-committed players.

The biggest list weakness is obviously the lack of ruck stocks.

TRADE TARGETS

With Cameron’s departure, the Giants need to get into the Ben Brown market to replace him. His lead-up style will suit their game style because they like to move the ball quickly. Jesse Hogan would also be a good fit but would he want to move to Sydney? It’s worth having the conversation.

Braydon Preuss has requested a trade to GWS, which will give them the ruckman they so desperately need but is he really capable of being a No.1 ruckman? I’d still have a crack at restricted free agent Stefan Martin. Brisbane is yet to offer him a new contract and while he’s 34, why not bring him in for a year if the Giants still believe they can win the premiership in 2021.

I’d also be making a phone call to Todd Goldstein and his manager to make sure there’s definitely no interest in leaving North Melbourne. Goldstein has said he wants to be a one-club player but make a compelling pitch to try and change his mind.

Isaac Smith would be a great fit. While he’d take some of the heat off Josh Kelly and Lachie Whitfield and help provide outside run, his biggest value would be his leadership and team-first attitude, which the Giants desperately need.

UNTOUCHABLES

Toby Greene, Josh Kelly, Jacob Hopper, Lachie Whitfield, Callan Ward, Phil Davis, Tim Taranto, Phil Davis, Harry Himmelberg, Nick Haynes, Stephen Coniglio, Matt de Boer, Jeremy Finlayson and Jake Riccardi.

TRADE BAIT

GWS should match the bid for Cameron and talk to Geelong about a trade. Ask for pick No.11 plus one of these players – Esava Ratugolea, Brandon Parfitt, Sam De Koning, Lachie Fogarty or Charlie Constable. If the Cats don’t agree to that deal, then tell Cameron – you either play for us or you take your in chances in the pre-season draft. It’s time to make a stand.

RATING THE LIST

A-Grade: Toby Greene, Hopper, Kelly, Whitfield

B: Cameron, Coniglio, Corr, Davis, de Boer, Finlayson, Haynes, Himmelberg, Taranto, Ward, Williams

C: Buckley, Buntine, Cumming, Flynn, Hutchesson, Keeffe, Kennedy, Langdon, Lloyd, Mumford, Reid

*Developing (with A-B grade potential): Ash, Caldwell, Daniels, Tom Green, Hately, Hill, O’Halloran, Perryman, Riccardi, Taylor

Developing: Briggs, Brown, Idun, Shipley, Sproule, Stein

What the ratings mean:

A-grade: Elite player on any AFL list

B: Top 10-18 player on most lists

C: An 18-30 player on a list

Developing: Aged 21 or under

CRYSTAL BALL

With such a talented list, GWS should be challenging for a premiership but a champion team will always beat a team of individual champions. Leon Cameron must find a way to transform this team into one that plays for each other and the club rather than the club being there to serve the players. The Giants have ‘Spoiled Child Syndrome’ – it’s all about ‘me’ and ‘what do I get’. With more luck with injuries, the Giants should play finals next year as a minimum. The current list is good enough to finish top four and be a premiership contender even without Williams and Cameron, but it does make it harder to be a genuine flag contender when good players keep leaving. It’s time to act now and fix the culture and list management problems or GWS will keep underachieving.
 

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Brave New World said:
Gary Buckenara analyses Greater Western Sydney’s list after the 2020 season

It’s time for GWS to draw a line in the sand and give Jeremy Cameron and Geelong an ultimatum. Match the free agency bid and demand a trade from the Cats that includes one of five players or he goes into the draft. Read Gary Buckenara’s full list analysis.


Greater Western Sydney is suffering from ‘Spoiled Child Syndrome’. It’s all about individuals over the team and their poor season this year has exposed the problem.

As the old saying goes: A champion team will always beat a team of individual champions and this is the case at the Giants. There appears to be an underlying selfishness within the playing group, which is what separates the good teams from the great ones.

But there are bigger issues. GWS has a major player retention problem and have been quietly going down the same path as Gold Coast without anyone noticing because they’ve still played finals – until now.

In the last five years the following players (still on AFL lists) have left – Adam Treloar, Jack Steele, Will Hoskin-Elliott and Caleb Marchbank (all 2016), Devon Smith and Nathan Wilson (2017), Dylan Shiel, Rory Lobb and Tom Scully (2018), Adam Tomlinson and Jon Patton (2019), while Jeremy Cameron, Zac Williams and Aidan Corr are the established players leaving this year. Cameron’s departure is a disaster.

It doesn’t end there. Many excuse these departures because GWS has been able to orchestrate trade deals to receive, in some cases, two first-round draft picks. But now the players they selected with those picks also want out.

Jackson Hately(pick 14 in the 2018 draft) and Jye Caldwell (pick 11, 2018) are the next players in a long list after requesting a trade to Adelaide and Essendon respectively. Last year Aiden Bonar (pick 11, 2017) left, the year before Will Setterfield (pick 5, 2016 and from their academy!) and Matt Kennedy (pick 13 in 2015 also from the academy) in 2016.

That’s 19 players still in the AFL system that have left the Giants. It’s nearly a whole starting team. It’s a serious problem and one the club must act immediately to fix because continuing to trade out stars for first-round picks is no way to build a premiership-winning list, especially if the players drafted with those picks also depart a few years later.

GWS coach Leon Cameron, chief executive David Matthews and the board must build a culture where players see a future at the club and where there’s a team-first and selfless attitude with a hunger for on-field success. It starts from the top and filters down. That will assist the list management team, which needs to better manage the Total Player Payments (TPP), where players are willing to accept less money to stay because they see the opportunity to win premierships, similar to how Geelong have operated.

The Giants’ list is in good shape on paper, with 12 A and B-ranked players and eight players aged 21 or under with the potential to become A or B-graders (excluding the players set to depart) but if they can’t keep the group together, they’ll keep threatening but won’t win a premiership.

GWS must snap out of being happy to continue this player merry-go-round and get serious. It’s no way to manage a list and definitely no way to win a flag.

LIST NEEDS

It’s time to draw a line in the sand. Keep the required players and make it harder for players to leave the club.

Did the Grand Final loss break their spirit? It should have built a strong resolve and driven the players harder to make amends but it didn’t. The Giants must rethink the strategies that were in place by reviewing all areas of the football department and the playing list to find answers quickly and implement a plan to build and develop a list of selfless and club-committed players.

The biggest list weakness is obviously the lack of ruck stocks.

TRADE TARGETS

With Cameron’s departure, the Giants need to get into the Ben Brown market to replace him. His lead-up style will suit their game style because they like to move the ball quickly. Jesse Hogan would also be a good fit but would he want to move to Sydney? It’s worth having the conversation.

Braydon Preuss has requested a trade to GWS, which will give them the ruckman they so desperately need but is he really capable of being a No.1 ruckman? I’d still have a crack at restricted free agent Stefan Martin. Brisbane is yet to offer him a new contract and while he’s 34, why not bring him in for a year if the Giants still believe they can win the premiership in 2021.

I’d also be making a phone call to Todd Goldstein and his manager to make sure there’s definitely no interest in leaving North Melbourne. Goldstein has said he wants to be a one-club player but make a compelling pitch to try and change his mind.

Isaac Smith would be a great fit. While he’d take some of the heat off Josh Kelly and Lachie Whitfield and help provide outside run, his biggest value would be his leadership and team-first attitude, which the Giants desperately need.

UNTOUCHABLES

Toby Greene, Josh Kelly, Jacob Hopper, Lachie Whitfield, Callan Ward, Phil Davis, Tim Taranto, Phil Davis, Harry Himmelberg, Nick Haynes, Stephen Coniglio, Matt de Boer, Jeremy Finlayson and Jake Riccardi.

TRADE BAIT

GWS should match the bid for Cameron and talk to Geelong about a trade. Ask for pick No.11 plus one of these players – Esava Ratugolea, Brandon Parfitt, Sam De Koning, Lachie Fogarty or Charlie Constable. If the Cats don’t agree to that deal, then tell Cameron – you either play for us or you take your in chances in the pre-season draft. It’s time to make a stand.

RATING THE LIST

A-Grade: Toby Greene, Hopper, Kelly, Whitfield

B: Cameron, Coniglio, Corr, Davis, de Boer, Finlayson, Haynes, Himmelberg, Taranto, Ward, Williams

C: Buckley, Buntine, Cumming, Flynn, Hutchesson, Keeffe, Kennedy, Langdon, Lloyd, Mumford, Reid

*Developing (with A-B grade potential): Ash, Caldwell, Daniels, Tom Green, Hately, Hill, O’Halloran, Perryman, Riccardi, Taylor

Developing: Briggs, Brown, Idun, Shipley, Sproule, Stein

What the ratings mean:

A-grade: Elite player on any AFL list

B: Top 10-18 player on most lists

C: An 18-30 player on a list

Developing: Aged 21 or under

CRYSTAL BALL

With such a talented list, GWS should be challenging for a premiership but a champion team will always beat a team of individual champions. Leon Cameron must find a way to transform this team into one that plays for each other and the club rather than the club being there to serve the players. The Giants have ‘Spoiled Child Syndrome’ – it’s all about ‘me’ and ‘what do I get’. With more luck with injuries, the Giants should play finals next year as a minimum. The current list is good enough to finish top four and be a premiership contender even without Williams and Cameron, but it does make it harder to be a genuine flag contender when good players keep leaving. It’s time to act now and fix the culture and list management problems or GWS will keep underachieving.
Click to expand...
IDK Buckenara is a bit more crackpot than list guru these days imo. Doesn't actually offer anything there that hasn't already been brought up a thousand times
 
Brave New World said:
Gary Buckenara analyses Greater Western Sydney’s list after the 2020 season

It’s time for GWS to draw a line in the sand and give Jeremy Cameron and Geelong an ultimatum. Match the free agency bid and demand a trade from the Cats that includes one of five players or he goes into the draft. Read Gary Buckenara’s full list analysis.


Greater Western Sydney is suffering from ‘Spoiled Child Syndrome’. It’s all about individuals over the team and their poor season this year has exposed the problem.

As the old saying goes: A champion team will always beat a team of individual champions and this is the case at the Giants. There appears to be an underlying selfishness within the playing group, which is what separates the good teams from the great ones.

But there are bigger issues. GWS has a major player retention problem and have been quietly going down the same path as Gold Coast without anyone noticing because they’ve still played finals – until now.

In the last five years the following players (still on AFL lists) have left – Adam Treloar, Jack Steele, Will Hoskin-Elliott and Caleb Marchbank (all 2016), Devon Smith and Nathan Wilson (2017), Dylan Shiel, Rory Lobb and Tom Scully (2018), Adam Tomlinson and Jon Patton (2019), while Jeremy Cameron, Zac Williams and Aidan Corr are the established players leaving this year. Cameron’s departure is a disaster.

It doesn’t end there. Many excuse these departures because GWS has been able to orchestrate trade deals to receive, in some cases, two first-round draft picks. But now the players they selected with those picks also want out.

Jackson Hately(pick 14 in the 2018 draft) and Jye Caldwell (pick 11, 2018) are the next players in a long list after requesting a trade to Adelaide and Essendon respectively. Last year Aiden Bonar (pick 11, 2017) left, the year before Will Setterfield (pick 5, 2016 and from their academy!) and Matt Kennedy (pick 13 in 2015 also from the academy) in 2016.

That’s 19 players still in the AFL system that have left the Giants. It’s nearly a whole starting team. It’s a serious problem and one the club must act immediately to fix because continuing to trade out stars for first-round picks is no way to build a premiership-winning list, especially if the players drafted with those picks also depart a few years later.

GWS coach Leon Cameron, chief executive David Matthews and the board must build a culture where players see a future at the club and where there’s a team-first and selfless attitude with a hunger for on-field success. It starts from the top and filters down. That will assist the list management team, which needs to better manage the Total Player Payments (TPP), where players are willing to accept less money to stay because they see the opportunity to win premierships, similar to how Geelong have operated.

The Giants’ list is in good shape on paper, with 12 A and B-ranked players and eight players aged 21 or under with the potential to become A or B-graders (excluding the players set to depart) but if they can’t keep the group together, they’ll keep threatening but won’t win a premiership.

GWS must snap out of being happy to continue this player merry-go-round and get serious. It’s no way to manage a list and definitely no way to win a flag.

LIST NEEDS

It’s time to draw a line in the sand. Keep the required players and make it harder for players to leave the club.

Did the Grand Final loss break their spirit? It should have built a strong resolve and driven the players harder to make amends but it didn’t. The Giants must rethink the strategies that were in place by reviewing all areas of the football department and the playing list to find answers quickly and implement a plan to build and develop a list of selfless and club-committed players.

The biggest list weakness is obviously the lack of ruck stocks.

TRADE TARGETS

With Cameron’s departure, the Giants need to get into the Ben Brown market to replace him. His lead-up style will suit their game style because they like to move the ball quickly. Jesse Hogan would also be a good fit but would he want to move to Sydney? It’s worth having the conversation.

Braydon Preuss has requested a trade to GWS, which will give them the ruckman they so desperately need but is he really capable of being a No.1 ruckman? I’d still have a crack at restricted free agent Stefan Martin. Brisbane is yet to offer him a new contract and while he’s 34, why not bring him in for a year if the Giants still believe they can win the premiership in 2021.

I’d also be making a phone call to Todd Goldstein and his manager to make sure there’s definitely no interest in leaving North Melbourne. Goldstein has said he wants to be a one-club player but make a compelling pitch to try and change his mind.

Isaac Smith would be a great fit. While he’d take some of the heat off Josh Kelly and Lachie Whitfield and help provide outside run, his biggest value would be his leadership and team-first attitude, which the Giants desperately need.

UNTOUCHABLES

Toby Greene, Josh Kelly, Jacob Hopper, Lachie Whitfield, Callan Ward, Phil Davis, Tim Taranto, Phil Davis, Harry Himmelberg, Nick Haynes, Stephen Coniglio, Matt de Boer, Jeremy Finlayson and Jake Riccardi.

TRADE BAIT

GWS should match the bid for Cameron and talk to Geelong about a trade. Ask for pick No.11 plus one of these players – Esava Ratugolea, Brandon Parfitt, Sam De Koning, Lachie Fogarty or Charlie Constable. If the Cats don’t agree to that deal, then tell Cameron – you either play for us or you take your in chances in the pre-season draft. It’s time to make a stand.

RATING THE LIST

A-Grade: Toby Greene, Hopper, Kelly, Whitfield

B: Cameron, Coniglio, Corr, Davis, de Boer, Finlayson, Haynes, Himmelberg, Taranto, Ward, Williams

C: Buckley, Buntine, Cumming, Flynn, Hutchesson, Keeffe, Kennedy, Langdon, Lloyd, Mumford, Reid

*Developing (with A-B grade potential): Ash, Caldwell, Daniels, Tom Green, Hately, Hill, O’Halloran, Perryman, Riccardi, Taylor

Developing: Briggs, Brown, Idun, Shipley, Sproule, Stein

What the ratings mean:

A-grade: Elite player on any AFL list

B: Top 10-18 player on most lists

C: An 18-30 player on a list

Developing: Aged 21 or under

CRYSTAL BALL

With such a talented list, GWS should be challenging for a premiership but a champion team will always beat a team of individual champions. Leon Cameron must find a way to transform this team into one that plays for each other and the club rather than the club being there to serve the players. The Giants have ‘Spoiled Child Syndrome’ – it’s all about ‘me’ and ‘what do I get’. With more luck with injuries, the Giants should play finals next year as a minimum. The current list is good enough to finish top four and be a premiership contender even without Williams and Cameron, but it does make it harder to be a genuine flag contender when good players keep leaving. It’s time to act now and fix the culture and list management problems or GWS will keep underachieving.
Click to expand...

Some good points, some VFL ranting.
 
Could not agree more with this view!

The aspect of player movement Goddard finds "kind of pathetic"

“I find it staggering."
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au

Former St Kilda and Essendon defender Brendon Goddard cannot believe that some young players in the AFL aren’t willing to fight for senior selection, saying it’s “kind of pathetic” they all too often give up and hand in a trade request. His comments come on the eve of the trade period, where several players are expected to seek a trade after being starved of senior game time.

Goddard said he finds it “staggering” how attitudes have changed since his playing days, where after being drafted it would be expected players would spend time in the second-tier competition before earning senior selection on a consistent basis. “Particularly with Generation Z and the expectation of just wanting to play football and if they’re not playing footy straight up and struggling to get in the team, they put their hand up to go home and go to the different team. The days are gone where these young kids come in and expect to be fighting for a position in the senior side in their first three or four years. Especially high draft picks, playing 70 or 80 VFL games is just not acceptable these days – the attitude around it has changed. It’s hard for me to get my head around it and it’s kind of pathetic in a way.”
 
It's an effect of us and the Suns coming into the comp. Not that I was (or am) the smartest of football watchers when we came in, but it seems that with all of our and the Suns youngsters playing every game early days, purely because of the list make up, new draftees, especially those first rounders, come in expecting they'll be considered best 22 within a season, and it's just not realistic. These kids getting drafted now have grown up with the expansion teams as just part of the comp, they don't know much (or any) different, so they see it as the norm. Throw in the fact we have football state clubs that are bottoming out offering them large contracts and opportunity and it's a really hard up hill battle for us.
 
So, basically, whatever we do we'll cop it from the Vic media. If we set a fair price for players, and Vic clubs can entice them home with more $, it's our fault. But if we pay too high a price for some players, others will leave for lack of money and that's our fault. As I posted previously, all Victorian clubs can muster up stupid money for one player every few years - if they all choose to apply that to a GWS player, of course they can prise them out for the lure of going home + more money. As I also said previously, because of the simple nature of the competition being what it is, the proportion of Victorian players & clubs etc - it's not a true national comp.

Sure, you can throw the ''well you have to make them want to stay'' (which is exactly what they did to Brisbane with the ''go home 5''), but while there is certainly an element of truth, the way it's quoted ad nauseam is just a stupid media/nuffy driven over-simplification. In a normal cycle, no club should have a mortgage sitting at the top (or the bottom either!), and the system has to be robust enough built to ride through those patches.

Case in point - Zaccy is a good player, from NSW, but no way is worth the $ that Carlton have thrown at him:

www.foxsports.com.au

AFL Day 1 of free agency wrap: Daniher DONE, Giants duo GONE in huge opening day

Trade wrap: Daniher DEAL DONE, Giants duo GONE in huge opening day
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

BLUES MAKE MOVE FOR THEIR GIANT TARGET

Carlton has filed the paperwork to sign GWS’ Zac Williams as a restricted free agent.

The AFL is still processing the details but the Giants have 72 hours to potentially match the offer.

They are not expected to do so.

Foxfooty.com.au’s Tom Morris reported last month Carlton had offered Williams a five-year deal worth around $850,000 to $900,000 per season.
 
captainMyCaptain said:
Might be worth a serious look
Click to expand...

Like Hogan, some 'damaged goods' issues. Liked him during his draft year ... obviously his heart condition was a concern ... had a great first year, but since then issues thrown up & his on-field performance has suffered. Question would be how many 'damaged goods' players we take a punt on at one time.
 
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