2020 Non-Crows AFL Discussion Part 2

[arrowman]

Obviously I have not reviewed the contract, but I would assume that the current pandemic would be covered off by the definition of a "force majeure event". ...As such, I really do not understand (subject to seeing the contract) on what legal grounds the Victorian government could seek "compensation" from the AFL for moving the game to another venue.

What if one of the parties (the Vic Govt) is actually responsible for creating the force majeure conditions (OK, not like they had much choice, but still...)?
(Just playing Denis Denuto with that one )

Anyway, even if you could argue force majeure, the AFL isn't going to invoke that and give the middle finger to the Vic Govt. The worst part is that another state government is going to have to, in effect, pay the compensation bill on behalf of the AFL.

What is the bet that, as a result of this compensation, either more games have to be scheduled in Victoria (specifically at the MCG)

Given that that would mean taking home games from non-Vic teams, you'd hope it would get massive pushback from the non-Vic clubs and be a non-starter.

wouldnt it make much more financial sense to have the states bid on the Grand Final, similar to the process in the NFL? This could have provided a huge cash windfall for the AFL if there was competitive pressure each year.

The problem with that, IMO, is the limited pool of potential venues. It's WA, SA, Qld, NSW, Vic; same 5 governments lining up every year. IMO You'd end up playing the GF for several years at least, in the state that was most willing to plunder their treasury for status. And I don't think I'd want my State govt to be trying to (and god forbid, succeeding in) outbidding the big boys every year, just to line the pockets of the AFL.

 

[Vader]

GC and GWS were as bad as us in their first years too

As I said... we're on par with the worst teams of the last 60 years. We haven't sustained it for years on end, the way some of those other clubs did, but on a season vs season basis, we're the equal of the worst of the last 60 years.

 

[Vader]

There is literally not a single way you can know that, and that’s the point. This year is completely unprecedented, and no-one, not you or I, or anyone else has any idea what would have happened in regular circumstances.

And pretending you would based off how we’ve gone after the event is utterly useless and has no foundation of truth outside of your basic opinion.

But if this is the mountain you want to plant your flag on be my guest. But just know it’s complete nonsense

As I said before... you're still in stage 3 of grief - bargaining. Eventually you'll work your way through to stage 5 - acceptance.

There is literally no evidence whatsoever that we would be any better than we are right now, if the season had been played under normal conditions. On the contrary, all evidence suggests that we'd be even worse, as our lack of fitness would be even more exposed.

 

[ABAB]

As I said... we're on par with the worst teams of the last 60 years. We haven't sustained it for years on end, the way some of those other clubs did, but on a season vs season basis, we're the equal of the worst of the last 60 years.

Not your normal season though, if you are unfit in the preseason in a normal season at least you can build and catch up throughout the real season. If you aren't in a good shape back from the COVID-19 lock-down, you are stuffed from the get go with the shorter break, no real reserve and less game in a shorter period.

 

[Vader]

Not your normal season though, if you are unfit in the preseason in a normal season at least you can build and catch up throughout the real season. If you aren't in a good shape back from the COVID-19 lock-down, you are stuffed from the get go with the shorter break, no real reserve and less game in a shorter period.

Our fitness was stuffed last season, when they were perpetually giving up at half-time. COVID hasn't helped, but it's not the reason why our players are so unfit. They were unfit before the COVID break, they came back from the COVID break unfit, and they're still unfit today.

 

[GreyCrow]

Every terrible team in the league is self-inflicted.

Even as much as the AFL weren't helping Fitzroy in the 90s, there were paths they had to survive. After all, North Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, Melbourne and Hawthorn managed to do that despite the real threat of potential mergers.

If you listen to the Greatest Season podcast on the Footscray-Fitzroy merger you will see that Leon Weigard was a stupid Viccentric old fool who should have stepped aside

 

[ABAB]

Our fitness was stuffed last season, when they were perpetually giving up at half-time. COVID hasn't helped, but it's not the reason why our players are so unfit. They were unfit before the COVID break, they came back from the COVID break unfit, and they're still unfit today.

My point was in a normal season you can at least catch up your fitness base to some extent because you had more game time with a much longer season and real reserve side.

 

[BRL121]

I've never heard this one before: what do BFers think?
Not AFL, but Rugby League: Canberra Raiders player will not be playing this week because "he doesn't want to play against his old club"!
I'm staggered. Why would the club go along with this? Appalling. What sort of delicate flowers make footballers these days?

 

[Thetrader15]

I've never heard this one before: what do BFers think?
Not AFL, but Rugby League: Canberra Raiders player will not be playing this week because "he doesn't want to play against his old club"!
I'm staggered. Why would the club go along with this? Appalling. What sort of delicate flowers make footballers these days?

Didn't Kurt Tippett do that for about 3 years too?

 

[Mego Red]

Our players are gassed after 3x 16-min quarters, and most of them can barely walk half-way through the 4th quarter. There's nothing to suggest that this is caused by them going 100% for longer, and everything to suggest that they're just plain unfit.

Teams are regularly walking all over us after half-time, and its a ritual slaughter every week in the final quarter. Adelaide has been competitive until half-time in many games this season. 3rd quarters have generally been bad. 4th quarters would be less embarrassing if they went straight to the change rooms during the final break, and left the opposition to play the final quarter on their own.

If we had full-length quarters, teams would be running all over us even more than they are now. Those 3-goal to zip last quarters (e.g. Geelong) and 7-goals to 1 last quarters (Melbourne & North Melbourne) would be even worse. Things are ugly now - they could be so, so, so much uglier if we had to play 4x 20-min quarters.

We've been in every game of the last month or more. It wouldn't have surprised if we won any of them.

Clubs aren't overrunning us due to some magic fitness pill - we have players who are dropping their heads because mentally they're waiting each week for the moment when the game is lost. And when that happens, the other side kicks away.

It's ridiculous to compare us to Carlton or Melbourne or Fitzroy or Sydney or GCS. In three years, let's talk. But this season is meaningless because clubs are playing games every four days and barely training.

 

[Vader]

My point was in a normal season you can at least catch up your fitness base to some extent because you had more game time with a much longer season and real reserve side.

No. Players don't "catch up their fitness base" while they're playing. Between recovery from the last game, and preparation for the next, they just don't have time to do the work required to build the fitness base.

OK... it can be done - but there's a price to pay. We used to do "fitness loading", starting about 6 weeks out from the finals, and going for 2-3 weeks. It worked, in that the club peaked for the finals. However, the price was 2-3 weeks of bog ordinary performances, as the players were exhausted from the additional training before they even started the game.

The way it's usually done is to drop a player, and tell them to work on their fitness without having to worry about playing on the weekend. They did this with Tex, Brouch, and many other times in the past.

Players were never going to recovery any fitness base lost during the COVID shutdown - and they didn't have a fitness base pre-COVID lockdown anyway.

 

[Vader]

We've been in every game of the last month or more. It wouldn't have surprised if we won any of them.

Clubs aren't overrunning us due to some magic fitness pill - we have players who are dropping their heads because mentally they're waiting each week for the moment when the game is lost. And when that happens, the other side kicks away.

It's ridiculous to compare us to Carlton or Melbourne or Fitzroy or Sydney or GCS. In three years, let's talk. But this season is meaningless because clubs are playing games every four days and barely training.

We've been in every game... up to half-time.

Here are the half-time and full-time margins from our last 6 games:
R8 (vs Essendon): 7pts & 3pts
R9 (vs North): 34pts & 69pts
R10 (vs Melbourne): 5pts & 51pts
R11 (vs Collingwood): led by 7pts & lost by 24pts
R12 (vs Bulldogs): 23pts & 57pts
R13 (vs Geelong): 7pts & 28pts

Essendon is the only game where we won the 2nd half. North is the only game where we weren't competitive at any stage. We were competitive in 5 of the 6 first halves, but only 1 of 6 second halves.

It's ridiculous to compare us to Carlton, Melbourne or Fitzroy only in the sense that they repeated their failures year-on-year-on-year. However, on the basis of individual season vs individual season, Adelaide's 2020 team is as bad as anything those clubs served up.

 

[Simmo28]

It's a disgrace what the VFL sorry the AFL are doing with the NEAFL. I'd welcome a national reserves comp, but the standalone clubs shouldn't be thrown into the bin in the process. Similarly, getting rid of the NT Thunder was a short sighted decision.

Seems like the growth of the game in the northern states has been overtaken by Vic-centricness again. COVID is just an excuse to make the changes they've wanted to for ages (ie. shorter quarters, games on Foxtel nearly every night, etc).

It’s just the cost of doing business, the AFL has a $500m loan hanging over their heads and they need to cut costs. Give it a couple of years and things will recover.


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[Kane McGoodwin]

We've been in every game... up to half-time.

Here are the half-time and full-time margins from our last 6 games:
R8 (vs Essendon): 7pts & 3pts
R9 (vs North): 34pts & 69pts
R10 (vs Melbourne): 5pts & 51pts
R11 (vs Collingwood): led by 7pts & lost by 24pts
R12 (vs Bulldogs): 23pts & 57pts
R13 (vs Geelong): 7pts & 28pts

Essendon is the only game where we won the 2nd half. North is the only game where we weren't competitive at any stage. We were competitive in 5 of the 6 first halves, but only 1 of 6 second halves.

It's ridiculous to compare us to Carlton, Melbourne or Fitzroy only in the sense that they repeated their failures year-on-year-on-year. However, on the basis of individual season vs individual season, Adelaide's 2020 team is as bad as anything those clubs served up.

We had a problem with 2nd half fade outs last season too... so this is not a new problem.

How Haas still has his job is mystifying...

Must be one of the key staff replaced for next season.

 

[Simmo28]

'It hurts': Andrews all but concedes AFL grand final is lost to Victoria

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews all but conceded on Monday that the grand final was lost to the state and said he would continue negotiations with the AFL to get the best compensation

www.watoday.com.au

Few things here....1) Obviously I have not reviewed the contract, but I would assume that the current pandemic would be covered off by the definition of a "force majeure event". If so, most contracts prescribe that the obligations of the parties are simply suspended for the period of the Force Majeure Event (subject generally to an obligation to mitigate). In this particular case, the obligations suspended would specifically be the obligations of the MCG / Victorian government to provide the MCG for the Grand Final (i.e. because here in Victoria you are not permitted - and I assume will not be able to in mid October - engage in contact or organised sport). As such, I really do not understand (subject to seeing the contract) on what legal grounds the Victorian government could seek "compensation" from the AFL for moving the game to another venue. Whilst the AFL does obviously receive funding from the AFL, there is no obligation as such.

2) What is the bet that, as a result of this compensation, either more games have to be scheduled in Victoria (specifically at the MCG), or the term of the contract is extended by at least 1-2 years (meaning it ends in I think 2058??).

3) While again I sort of understand the logic of having the GF at the stadium that can fit the most fans, I have some real questions about how the AFL Commission signed off on this deal. For a start, why was only one club president (McGuire) involved? Why on earth would you lock your organisation into a 30 year contract of this nature (particularly in say, 10 years, Sydney could have a stadium which was above 100k)? And finally, wouldnt it make much more financial sense to have the states bid on the Grand Final, similar to the process in the NFL? This could have provided a huge cash windfall for the AFL if there was competitive pressure each year. I feel like the Commission clearly did not act in the best interests of the game, nor its non-Victorian members here.....

TL;DR

The AFL is still the VFL and alway will be


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[Simmo28]

Yes, 2020 will have a huge asterisk next to it. That doesn't alter the fact that the 2020 Adelaide Crows team is historically bad, on par with any of the worst teams of the last 60 years.

I agree but who cares?

Let’s assume we get the spoon for 2020 and the following two seasons.
We then reach a prelim in 2023.
We win the flag in 2024.

While you are celebrating the flag on that last weekend in September 2024 will you be thinking - damn our side in 2020 was the worst side in 60 years???

We have never had a spoon, let’s be the best spoon winner ever!


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[CrowsB4hoes]

Sooo .... who else hates Richmond?

 

[spenze]

Somebody say KFC?

 

[GROTTO]

Somebody say KFC?

I saw this years ago. I cant ever look at KFC the same again.

 

[spenze]

I saw this years ago. I cant ever look at KFC the same again.

Rat isn't as bad as people make out bit stringy but hits the spot with a few Tiger beers

BTW, I did laugh when you got called Karen

 

[GROTTO]

2020* will always be regarded as an asterix season.

 

[Deaneus!]

2020* will always be regarded as an asterix season.

Not to me.

All the clubs have the same rules, and all the Melbourne clubs found out what’s it like to travel all the time, good.




Speaking of which, a mate just forwarded me a video subtitled “essendon player bellchambers”, anyone know if it’s legit?

 

[Deaneus!]

Okay I googled some pics, Ms Bellchambers will not be happy

 

[Bearded Clam]

Okay I googled some pics, Ms Bellchambers will not be happy

Isnt he with Olympia Valance?..

whats he done?

 

[FR0GGY]

Not to me.

All the clubs have the same rules, and all the Melbourne clubs found out what’s it like to travel all the time, good.




Speaking of which, a mate just forwarded me a video subtitled “essendon player bellchambers”, anyone know if it’s legit?

I think people’s opinions here would be slightly different if port weren’t a chance.
Which is slightly embarrassing.