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List Mgmt. 2020 Trade and List Management Thread III

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koshari said:
he was up in the NT barra fishing the last time his negotiations were being done prolly not great phone reception for his manager to get back to him, they never really got finalised til he got back. good chance the same thing is happening now.
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26A6853E-867B-4036-869A-42C2233670F8.png

This was yesterday.
 
ChoppyGun said:
Ok then.

But if we are giving away Brown and Higgins for near nothing, when we already lack top end players, Cunners back who knows, then this strategy better work.

It could be a complete disaster.
Click to expand...
Whats the alternative? Continue to finish 6-12 as we have done for the last 20 years?

Even with Higgins and Brown, where do we finish next year? Do the potentially extra three wins in 2021 mean anything in the end?

We need to bring in more talent, and the only way to do that is trade out establish players for the most valuable draft picks we can get. Then hope the recruiting team selects the right guys. We have been on the treadmill of mediocrity for so long, we need to take a chance. It will be painful, but I don't see what other strategy the club could go with, given the list demographic in 2020, and where we finished.
This strategy for me is a no brainer.

But in saying that, we need to make sure we get the best deal possible when trading out or in players.
 
NewNorth said:
Whats the alternative? Continue to finish 6-12 as we have done for the last 20 years?

Even with Higgins and Brown, where do we finish next year? Do the potentially extra three wins in 2021 mean anything in the end?

We need to bring in more talent, and the only way to do that is trade out establish players for the most valuable draft picks we can get. Then hope the recruiting team selects the right guys. We have been on the treadmill of mediocrity for so long, we need to take a chance. It will be painful, but I don't see what other strategy the club could go with, given the list demographic in 2020, and where we finished.
This strategy for me is a no brainer.

But in saying that, we need to make sure we get the best deal possible when trading out or in players.
Click to expand...


 

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BTRAIN2 said:
Brad Johnson ok BB - “second rounder”

Brad Johnson on Dunkley - “will change your club, an outstanding acquisition and possible the greatest player of all time”

w***er
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That's funny 😀
 

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North get: 5, GC 2021 first, 27
GC get: 2
(push GC for their 37 as well - they don't have list spots to take picks)

North get: Cats 2021 2nd, 20
Cats get: 28, higgins

North get: Dees 2021 2nd, 26
Dees get: Brown, North 2021 3rd
(I would rather dees 2021 first and swap our 2021 2nd, but I don't think that will happen)

KEEP JED!!

We go the 2020 draft with - 5, 11, 20, 27, 63, 71
We have in 2021 - North 1st, GC first, North 2nd, Cats 2nd, Dees 2nd
Dangle our 2021 2nd if someone we love falls in that 6-10

In trade week (if there is time) dangle our 2021 second to bring in ready made mature talent in the 21-24 range, try and get two players in. From memory saints got Schneider and Dempsey from Sydney for a second. Look to do something like that.

I believe there are few clubs (Brisbane, GC and Richmond) wont take that many picks to the draft as they dont have the list spots to take multiple picks. Look to take advantage of this.

Offer up one of the 2021 seconds for two picks in the 30s from someone, if we love anyone in that range.

Talk to Collingwood about their 2021 First, maybe something like our 11, for their 2021 first and 16?

Just want to highlight that we need to be super proactive about getting in as much talent as possible as fast as we can, and then developing and coaching them right. Glen Luff showed he could be last year at the draft, just hope he continues to be.
We all want the same thing for North Melbourne, just highlighting one possible way to go about it.
 
NewNorth said:
North get: 5, GC 2021 first, 27
GC get: 2
(push GC for their 37 as well - they don't have list spots to take picks)

North get: Cats 2021 2nd, 20
Cats get: 28, higgins

North get: Dees 2021 2nd, 26
Dees get: Brown, North 2021 3rd
(I would rather dees 2021 first and swap our 2021 2nd, but I don't think that will happen)

KEEP JED!!

We go the 2020 draft with - 5, 11, 20, 27, 63, 71
We have in 2021 - North 1st, GC first, North 2nd, Cats 2nd, Dees 2nd
Dangle our 2021 2nd if someone we love falls in that 6-10

In trade week (if there is time) dangle our 2021 second to bring in ready made mature talent in the 21-24 range, try and get two players in. From memory saints got Schneider and Dempsey from Sydney for a second. Look to do something like that.

I believe there are few clubs (Brisbane, GC and Richmond) wont take that many picks to the draft as they dont have the list spots to take multiple picks. Look to take advantage of this.

Offer up one of the 2021 seconds for two picks in the 30s from someone, if we love anyone in that range.

Talk to Collingwood about their 2021 First, maybe something like our 11, for their 2021 first and 16?

Just want to highlight that we need to be super proactive about getting in as much talent as possible as fast as we can, and then developing and coaching them right. Glen Luff showed he could be last year at the draft, just hope he continues to be.
We all want the same thing for North Melbourne, just highlighting one possible way to go about it.
Click to expand...

We aren't going to go to the draft with 6 picks.... will need at least 2 or three of those for trade.... so I think we need more 2020 picks prob 4 for draft and 3-4 for trade


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
NewNorth said:
Whats the alternative? Continue to finish 6-12 as we have done for the last 20 years?

Even with Higgins and Brown, where do we finish next year? Do the potentially extra three wins in 2021 mean anything in the end?

We need to bring in more talent, and the only way to do that is trade out establish players for the most valuable draft picks we can get. Then hope the recruiting team selects the right guys. We have been on the treadmill of mediocrity for so long, we need to take a chance. It will be painful, but I don't see what other strategy the club could go with, given the list demographic in 2020, and where we finished.
This strategy for me is a no brainer.

But in saying that, we need to make sure we get the best deal possible when trading out or in players.
Click to expand...
Unpopular opinion, but anyway....

We're three years into a rebuild already and the silver lining to this year is we got more games into some exciting young talent. Cunnington being out put more responsibility onto Jy's shoulders and he handled it very well. LDU isn't far off. Luke McDonald and Jed Anderson had career-best years. Ben McKay looks good. And we already have two first round picks coming in.

I think we've done some good business in getting Josh Walker in the door, and clearing out inconsistent or good but flawed players like Macmillan, Marley Williams and Pittard makes room for Perez and Kyron, and A Corr adds to that.

There's a change in attitude in recruiting that I really like, where we are filling holes rather than looking for stars. The Bulldogs made premiership players out of Shane Biggs and Joel Hamling. Richmond could have gone down the scorched earth policy having bombed out in week one of the finals in 14 and 15, and finishing 14th or something in 2016, but instead they brought in some role players, made some internal changes and the rest is history.

Out of interest, I did a best 22, assuming we don't lose anyone else. It's a sliding doors team, because it's not happening, but it was worth the exercise.

J Walker Tarrant Corr
McDonald McKay Perez
Dumont Simpkin Polec
Zurhaar Larkey Thomas
Taylor Brown Turner
Goldstein Cunnington LDU
Anderson Scott Hayden Higgins

Depth: EVW Atley Hall Mahony Xerri Bonar Garner Ziebell Tyson Campbell W Walker 2 x first rounders and whatever else we get in 2020 draft

Do I think we win a flag next year? No. But do we contend for finals in 21, and make a serious run at it in 22? Yeah, I think we could have. But even if everything goes to our new plan, we don't contend for finals until 2023, at best. And if that doesn't work, it's another rebuild, which makes it close to ten years out of the finals. Now that's mediocre.

I get the appeal of the rebuild, I do. It makes some sense. But the successful ones have taken an eternity to be successful - Luke Hodge didn't play a final until game 130-odd. Dustin Martin's first final was game 86 and his first winning final was game 176. Brett Deledio had seen so many rebuilds that he gave up after 200 games and left. And Matthew Kreuzer was a generational talent you could build a team around, and played two finals.

And yes every premiership team has lots of top end talent, but so do all of the shit teams.

Needless to say I disagree fundamentally with the strategy we are undertaking. But we're doing it, so I want to make sure we get the best possible return for our players.

The fact we won't get anywhere near the two first rounders some posters were saying we should get is evidence that the strategy is risky. I sincerely hope this works, because if it doesn't, it's going to be ugly.
 
New_Roo said:
We aren't going to go to the draft with 6 picks.... will need at least 2 or three of those for trade.... so I think we need more 2020 picks prob 4 for draft and 3-4 for trade


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

Will be pretty close to 6 picks - we’ve delisted 11 and will trade at least 2 players.
Only brought in corr and maybe young
We need to get 5 picks inside 30 to kick start this.
 
big_e said:
Unpopular opinion, but anyway....

We're three years into a rebuild already and the silver lining to this year is we got more games into some exciting young talent. Cunnington being out put more responsibility onto Jy's shoulders and he handled it very well. LDU isn't far off. Luke McDonald and Jed Anderson had career-best years. Ben McKay looks good. And we already have two first round picks coming in.

I think we've done some good business in getting Josh Walker in the door, and clearing out inconsistent or good but flawed players like Macmillan, Marley Williams and Pittard makes room for Perez and Kyron, and A Corr adds to that.

There's a change in attitude in recruiting that I really like, where we are filling holes rather than looking for stars. The Bulldogs made premiership players out of Shane Biggs and Joel Hamling. Richmond could have gone down the scorched earth policy having bombed out in week one of the finals in 14 and 15, and finishing 14th or something in 2016, but instead they brought in some role players, made some internal changes and the rest is history.

Out of interest, I did a best 22, assuming we don't lose anyone else. It's a sliding doors team, because it's not happening, but it was worth the exercise.

J Walker Tarrant Corr
McDonald McKay Perez
Dumont Simpkin Polec
Zurhaar Larkey Thomas
Taylor Brown Turner
Goldstein Cunnington LDU
Anderson Scott Hayden Higgins

Depth: EVW Atley Hall Mahony Xerri Bonar Garner Ziebell Tyson Campbell W Walker 2 x first rounders and whatever else we get in 2020 draft

Do I think we win a flag next year? No. But do we contend for finals in 21, and make a serious run at it in 22? Yeah, I think we could have. But even if everything goes to our new plan, we don't contend for finals until 2023, at best. And if that doesn't work, it's another rebuild, which makes it close to ten years out of the finals. Now that's mediocre.

I get the appeal of the rebuild, I do. It makes some sense. But the successful ones have taken an eternity to be successful - Luke Hodge didn't play a final until game 130-odd. Dustin Martin's first final was game 86 and his first winning final was game 176. Brett Deledio had seen so many rebuilds that he gave up after 200 games and left. And Matthew Kreuzer was a generational talent you could build a team around, and played two finals.

And yes every premiership team has lots of top end talent, but so do all of the sh*t teams.

Needless to say I disagree fundamentally with the strategy we are undertaking. But we're doing it, so I want to make sure we get the best possible return for our players.

The fact we won't get anywhere near the two first rounders some posters were saying we should get is evidence that the strategy is risky. I sincerely hope this works, because if it doesn't, it's going to be ugly.
Click to expand...

If we were three years into a rebuild, we wouldn’t have one of the oldest lists in the comp in 2020.

The reason we are in a good place from a u22 perspective is because our “big fish” plans have not paid off and we’ve retained the picks we did have. Add in some NGA, some FS and some handy late recruiting and we are lucky to not be in a much more dire position youth wise.
 

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shintemaster said:
There is zero chance of that happening IMO.
Click to expand...
I think it comes down to how much * want McDonald. In which case we could squeeze a lot out of whoever comes knocking.

I really like Phillips. I'd prefer taking the gamble of Phillips and Thilthopre/Grainger-Barras vs. Hollands/McDonald. Plus an extra pick in the 2nd round.
 
big_e said:
The Bulldogs made premiership players out of Shane Biggs and Joel Hamling.
Click to expand...

Unpopular opinion but I liked Hamling

big_e said:
Do I think we win a flag next year? No. But do we contend for finals in 21, and make a serious run at it in 22? Yeah, I think we could have.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, we should aim for finals next year, but with an eye to develop our younger players
 
Joycey said:
......... I'd prefer taking the gamble of Phillips and Thilthopre/Grainger-Barras vs. Hollands/McDonald..............
Click to expand...

I doubt any more than one of these players last until pick 6.

I also reckon the telephones will start ringing hot after Adelaide make the first pick.
 
big_e said:
Unpopular opinion, but anyway....

We're three years into a rebuild already and the silver lining to this year is we got more games into some exciting young talent. Cunnington being out put more responsibility onto Jy's shoulders and he handled it very well. LDU isn't far off. Luke McDonald and Jed Anderson had career-best years. Ben McKay looks good. And we already have two first round picks coming in.

I think we've done some good business in getting Josh Walker in the door, and clearing out inconsistent or good but flawed players like Macmillan, Marley Williams and Pittard makes room for Perez and Kyron, and A Corr adds to that.

There's a change in attitude in recruiting that I really like, where we are filling holes rather than looking for stars. The Bulldogs made premiership players out of Shane Biggs and Joel Hamling. Richmond could have gone down the scorched earth policy having bombed out in week one of the finals in 14 and 15, and finishing 14th or something in 2016, but instead they brought in some role players, made some internal changes and the rest is history.

Out of interest, I did a best 22, assuming we don't lose anyone else. It's a sliding doors team, because it's not happening, but it was worth the exercise.

J Walker Tarrant Corr
McDonald McKay Perez
Dumont Simpkin Polec
Zurhaar Larkey Thomas
Taylor Brown Turner
Goldstein Cunnington LDU
Anderson Scott Hayden Higgins

Depth: EVW Atley Hall Mahony Xerri Bonar Garner Ziebell Tyson Campbell W Walker 2 x first rounders and whatever else we get in 2020 draft

Do I think we win a flag next year? No. But do we contend for finals in 21, and make a serious run at it in 22? Yeah, I think we could have. But even if everything goes to our new plan, we don't contend for finals until 2023, at best. And if that doesn't work, it's another rebuild, which makes it close to ten years out of the finals. Now that's mediocre.

I get the appeal of the rebuild, I do. It makes some sense. But the successful ones have taken an eternity to be successful - Luke Hodge didn't play a final until game 130-odd. Dustin Martin's first final was game 86 and his first winning final was game 176. Brett Deledio had seen so many rebuilds that he gave up after 200 games and left. And Matthew Kreuzer was a generational talent you could build a team around, and played two finals.

And yes every premiership team has lots of top end talent, but so do all of the sh*t teams.

Needless to say I disagree fundamentally with the strategy we are undertaking. But we're doing it, so I want to make sure we get the best possible return for our players.

The fact we won't get anywhere near the two first rounders some posters were saying we should get is evidence that the strategy is risky. I sincerely hope this works, because if it doesn't, it's going to be ugly.
Click to expand...

The only players we are losing from that team are Brown and Higgins, and we are going from making the 8 in 2021 to possibly winning it in 2022 if we had them? So without them, can we make the 8 in 2022? In 2022, Higgins is 34 or 35?

You are overrating our list based on what we did in 2018 and 2019.
We are the 6 oldest list (I believe that's what brady said in the paper) and we finished 2nd last, that's not a sustainable profile.

Also - those players that are 'not best 22' you surely don't hold out hopes that they can come in and play quality football if required, in a team pushing for finals. There is enough evidence to suggest they cant.
Bonnar and Will Walker deserve more time, due to injury and age, but the rest of the older guys, we know who they are.
Mahony has something to offer moving forward no doubt.

Rebuilds are hard, and long, its the way the AFL system is built. Whether that is the model we (the AFL community) should have is a different argument. In all honesty, the system is flawed.
I understand that people don't want the club to do one - being the supporter/member of a club going through a rebuild is not fun, which I think is the main reason supporters don't want to go through a rebuild. We are financially strong as a club for the first time in a long, long, long time, this is the time to rebuild.

Our recruiting has been abysmal for so long, burning first and second round picks on players who have given us nothing. We have been saved by some of the picks we have made late in the draft and rookies from being even worse. We have turned the football department over to a brand new regime. If our current young talent really takes a step forward in the next 12 months, the pain might be shorter than we anticipate.

if we don't rebuild now, by the time Goldy, Cunners, Taz are finished, we will have an even bigger hole. Need to get games into talented kids, so by the time these guys retire, those kids can step in to those roles and preform.

Also - you say we are 3 years into a rebuild. We aren't - we are supposed to be. Joyce and Scott messed that up. If anyone is to blame for where we are, its them.
 
If the scum land pick 8 in a Saad trade then we hold them over the fire for 6,7,8 for 2,11,28.

This could at least land us Phillips/Tilthorpe + Cox/Reid and another midifielder (Bruhn?)
 
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List Mgmt. 2020 Trade and List Management Thread III

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