List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part II

[kernelT]

Prefer we piss off Kent & Hind who can’t buy themselves a goal and can barely get a kick rather than a guy who is regularly kicking snags and setting up others.

 

[Ducky Tie]

This is all hyperthetical, we are talking about what we would do, not what the club would do.
If the club used him for currency, I wouldn't mind, reckon for a no.3 he is a disappointment.

That’s the thing though, we can’t judge him based on his draft selection. We have to judge him based on where things sit now. He isn’t the player we hoped for, but he’s still a top five player for us. Trading him away doesn’t improve us. It is hypothetical as you say, but there is no reason why we’d have to trade him out to get a good player in.

 

[Joffaboy]

Why can nobody understand that? More impressively how are you not tearing your hair out about people not understanding it?
Do that many people have you on ignore?

Probably. Amazed I ever get a response from anyone.

 

[Joffaboy]

That’s the thing though, we can’t judge him based on his draft selection. We have to judge him based on where things sit now. He isn’t the player we hoped for, but he’s still a top five player for us. Trading him away doesn’t improve us. It is hypothetical as you say, but there is no reason why we’d have to trade him out to get a good player in.

Based on 6 years, we should trade him.

 

[Ricmel]

I would consider would I rather Taranto kicking the ball to Kent all next season, or would I explore every single possible scenario possible so I could have Taranto kicking to Billings instead so our best 22 improves significantly rather than marginally.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. You always try and give away as little as possible. But we don't have a lot of trade currency and if the only way you get a big name in is to put some currency down, then i for one would do that trade. If the trade on the table is Billings + for Taranto and there is no way we get it done otherwise then I vote do it.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

what would billings even be worth?

 

[Jay Beast]

Id be sending billings out before ross

Wouldn't be surprised if both go this trade period.

 

[TryAnHit]

Would be super Supprised if you guys don't go after crouch. Comes for free, you guys a mid or two short. Chance for success

 

[Ducky Tie]

Let's assume for the sake of the discussion that we all agree that despite our various opinions on him, Billings is clear best 22 player. If he is a best 22 player now, he will be again next year, even if we brought in a big name. The argument people are putting forward is that we should trade Billings out in order to get a big name player like Taranto. This is a flawed premise. There is no evidence at all that trading Billings out is the only way to get a deal done for a player like Taranto. Pretty much every big trade that gets done these days is a draft pick/s for player X. Surely we all agree that if we could get a Taranto and keep Billings, we are better off than if we get Taranto but lose Billings.

 

[jwikked]

Prefer we piss off Kent & Hind who can’t buy themselves a goal and can barely get a kick rather than a guy who is regularly kicking snags and setting up others.

It's not about trading Billings because he isn't best 22, but trading him because he's someone we could afford to lose while maintaining a level of currency for a trade to occur.

Kent and Hind wouldn't get anything more than a 3rd round pick.

 

[Jay Beast]

More like another Fiona...

Jacinta

 

[jwikked]

Let's assume for the sake of the discussion that we all agree that despite our various opinions on him, Billings is clear best 22 player. If he is a best 22 player now, he will be again next year, even if we brought in a big name. The argument people are putting forward is that we should trade Billings out in order to get a big name player like Taranto. This is a flawed premise. There is no evidence at all that trading Billings out is the only way to get a deal done for a player like Taranto. Pretty much every big trade that gets done these days is a draft pick/s for Billings. Surely we all agree that if we could get a Taranto and keep Billings, we are better off than if we get Taranto but lose Billings.

I'd rather Taranto and use our first round pick on potential than keep Billings and get Taranto with no first round pick.

 

[Moral Decay]

Would be super Supprised if you guys don't go after crouch. Comes for free, you guys a mid or two short. Chance for success

Pre the problem, apparently we were interested and he was keen but we couldn't meet his price so all bets were off. Post the problem perceptively his price diminishes but..... so not sure where that leaves either party.

 

[12Chill]

My ideal Saints line up is our midfield improving so that our 3 small forwards are Butler, Gresham and Billings.

I know people love Gresh in the mid and I do too, but 60/40 or even 70/30 forward/mid should be his go. He’s been kicked 30 goals in a season twice. If he and Butler could kick 25-30+ each next year that’s some serious small forward stocks, add in Billings high half forward in place of Kent.

Kent and Hind have been solid for their ability but I think we’ve seen they’re pretty limited. Parker has a higher ceiling than both but probably won’t be on the list due to not taking opportunities this year. Lonie has the most ability of the lot but from what I’ve seen so far his ceiling is probably Brandon Matera and who knows if he actually gets to that.

If we can swing our team in a way to make Billings the “worst” player in our forward line, then we have a very scary set up.

 

[Ducky Tie]

I'd rather Taranto and use our first round pick on potential than keep Billings and get Taranto with no first round pick.

That goes against the idea of improving our side. Our first pick is likely to be around about pick 16. That is pretty much a lottery pick. If we're lucky and we use it well, we might get a player who five years down the track is a top five b&f player. Like Billings is. We might get a total flop. Tiny chance we get a star. Draft picks are overrated, particularly when it comes to trading out clear members of our best team.

 

[12Chill]

I'd rather Taranto and use our first round pick on potential than keep Billings and get Taranto with no first round pick.

With no guarantee that the first round pick (closer to 15-18) is even going to end up any good? Righto mate.

Taranto + keeping Billings is clearly the better option than Taranto + 15th pick in the draft who we won’t know is any good or not in comparison to JB for probably 5 years. Your lack of love for JB is clouding your judgement on this one.
If Taranto wants to come then obviously we try to sort it with draft picks first. Why? Because it’s obvious as to what the better result is there.

 

[kernelT]

Taranto, Caldwell, Heeney...

We’ll probably end up with Chris Mayne.

 

[Jay Beast]

Dildo would froff over the chance to get Billings. Considering what's going on over at that rabble there's a decent chance we get very good value for him.

 

[Sully111]

Can't believe people want to trade billings without seeing what we'd get for Ross

 

[Sully111]

Did you watch last night? Him and Savage were two of the cleanest on the field. It was good night for the whipping boys.

Yes I did

I saw the same old Seb i nearly always see.

 

[gringo2011]

This is all hyperthetical, we are talking about what we would do, not what the club would do.
If the club used him for currency, I wouldn't mind, reckon for a no.3 he is a disappointment.

He was definitely a disappointment for where he was taken, Kelly and Bont either side of him but that shouldn't cloud people's view of him. He's still in our top 10 players but just an above average soldier not a superstar. We need to pay him less as he becomes less of a top shelf player for the club. His pay should drop to where his standing in the game rates him, not for being the biggest fish in a small pond full of toads.

 

[gringo2011]

Yes I did

I saw the same old Seb i nearly always see.

I thought he was outstanding, his disposal was neat, he ran, he had multiple times where he had second and third efforts. Did all the stuff he usually gets canned for not doing and was instrumental in moving the ball quickly when under pressure. To me it reminded me of what he has been in the past, a top 5 Saints player.

 

[gringo2011]

Would be super Supprised if you guys don't go after crouch. Comes for free, you guys a mid or two short. Chance for success

I think we like inside outside multidimensional mids more than grunt ball winners with high accumulation. I rate him but he doesn't seem to be what Ratts likes. If you were to give us Rory Laird instead though.

 

[kernelT]

A week is a long time in mental trade ideas...

 

[Longmembrey]

Yuck no.

The whole point of what ratts seems to be saying is that we are sorted for small forwards already- butts, gresh and billings play closer to home than this year and we bring in real midfielders to fill their midfield time.

(And I reckon guys like sinclair, kent, lonie are potentially gone all together)

"Mids, mids, mids" doesn't mean guys that can 'run through the middle'- i reckon we are going for a reset where instead of a team of jack of all trades- we're going to have far more specialist mids and non tall forwards.

Our 'specialist' non tall fwds (butts, gresh, billings) will still play a bit of midfield- but not much, just enough to give guys like steele a rest or a good matchup in the fwd line.

And if we keep guys like sinclair and kent they will be told- you're either a 20possies a week mid or a 1 goal+ a week small forward.
Take your pick- no more of this a bit of both, but really neither business.

Lol, I didn't mean Bruest as a mid, I meant as a small forward. The bloke is a jet. Absolute ice in his veins around goal. Puts anybody our forwards to shame as far as capitalising on chances.