Play Nice 2021 Crowds and Ratings Thread

[JayJ20]

Blues fans have notoriously been absent at away fixtures. That’s always been my perception FWIW.

Always hard to quantify how much of the crowd figures are due to the away team but there is some truth to this claim.

The figures for away games at MCG/Docklands from 2010 onwards:

View attachment 1130007

Carlton's overall average is extremely similar to both Essendon and Richmond, but once games against the other big teams are removed is noticeable lower. You can always argue about the exact make up of these games in relation to opponent and venue but there's some evidence there.

Another way of looking at it is the rankings for total away crowds - Carlton have always been pretty decent but have really fallen away in recent years:

View attachment 1130016

Is it really that they don't show up to away games or is it that Carlton aren't as big as the other 3 clubs to begin with?
All of their big crowds seem to involve the big 4. They don't draw as well to non-big 4 games home or away.

Compare the highest home crowd for each interstate team (though I understand that Carlton and Essendon are disadvantaged by playing at Marvel/Princes Park):

Vs Sydney
- Essendon 69237
- Collingwood 65306
- Richmond 58721
- Carlton 42788

Vs Brisbane
- Richmond 76995
- Collingwood 61868
- Essendon 50003
- Carlton 43617

Vs West Coast
- Collingwood 62957
- Richmond 57415
- Essendon 55096
- Carlton 39611

Vs Fremantle
- Collingwood 45383
- Richmond 43801
- Essendon 42665
- Carlton 30457

Vs Adelaide
- Collingwood 54790
- Richmond 54934
- Carlton 44711
- Essendon 43016

Vs Port
- Collingwood 51883
- Essendon 43012
- Richmond 41642
- Carlton 32893

Vs Gold Coast
- Richmond 38508
- Collingwood 36913
- Essendon 33710
- Carlton 31765

Vs GWS
- Collingwood 43390
- Richmond 38986
- Essendon 30143
- Carlton 28213
-------------------------------------

Now highest H&A crowds for each non-big 4 Victorian teams:

Vs Hawthorn
- Collingwood 92935
- Essendon 78294
- Richmond 70701
- Carlton 69814

Vs Geelong
- Collingwood 88115
- Essendon 87653
- Carlton 71399
- Richmond 70068

Vs Melbourne
- Collingwood 99256
- Essendon 86275
- Richmond 85657
- Carlton 60794

Vs Bulldogs
- Richmond 68447
- Collingwood 67920
- Essendon 67157
- Carlton 49406

Vs St Kilda
- Collingwood 81386
- Richmond 71488
- Essendon 62928
- Carlton 55658

Vs North
- Collingwood 72932
- Essendon 68831
- Carlton 68537
- Richmond 62606

I think you get the point.

 

[legend166]

So what seems to be flying under the radar is how well Swans crowds are holding up. There's always been talk that we couldn't survive a down period, Sydney fans are fickle, etc, etc. Now of course we've had a good start to the season, but 2019 and 2020 were our worst two seasons in 25 years. Five home games and our average is down 6% on our 2019 in the middle of a pandemic. To put it in context, compare it to say, the big Melbourne clubs - Richmond down 28%, Collingwood down 30%, Essendon down 28%, Carlton down 26%.

Not trying to do this as a flag waving thing - obviously you're probably going to have more COVID-wary fans in Melbourne than Sydney based on what happened last year. Just showing that any narrative that the Swans have to be in the finals every year to maintain support is surely buried by now.

 

[billyboutsis]

The 85% cap has nothing to do with the drop in numbers in Victoria NO games have reached that figure in Victoria and wont for a long time maybe including finals if the ticketing stays the same and older people are still scared to go out!

The 85% cap has nothing to do with the drop in numbers in Victoria NO games have reached that figure in Victoria and wont for a long time maybe including finals if the ticketing stays the same and older people are still scared to go out!

Yes, agree that is the main reason and also how it has been ticketed.
My comment about our attendance at the Melb game being comparable to previos years is reflective of how were going. Earlier on in the season our crowds were down around 15% or so from what i would consider the norm

 

[What else we can do]

My standards are pretty low

standards are pretty low hehehe

 

[What else we can do]

Always hard to quantify how much of the crowd figures are due to the away team but there is some truth to this claim.

The figures for away games at MCG/Docklands from 2010 onwards:

View attachment 1130007

Carlton's overall average is extremely similar to both Essendon and Richmond, but once games against the other big teams are removed is noticeable lower. You can always argue about the exact make up of these games in relation to opponent and venue but there's some evidence there.

Another way of looking at it is the rankings for total away crowds - Carlton have always been pretty decent but have really fallen away in recent years:

View attachment 1130016

Having the season over by round 3 in the past 8-9 years does not help

 

[Raz Man]

Having the season over by round 3 in the past 8-9 years does not help

This is what I’ve noticed. When we get to play you in the last 6-8 years, it’s always between 5-8 & you are out of finals contention. So blues supporters don’t actually turn up. Where as if we play Carlton say in the first 3 rounds the crowd average would definitely be up. I’m bummed last year did not eventuate as we would’ve had to play you on a Thursday night in Round 3.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[bgt2110]

I'm on the Belgrave train line and it seems like every weekend they are doing line works so you have to use the train part of the way then have to hop on a bus for the rest of the journey. Adds an extra 40 minutes each way for a trip into the city to Marvel. Faced with that i would rather just watch from home. Am sick of metro.

 

[dave10]

Is it really that they don't show up to away games or is it that Carlton aren't as big as the other 3 clubs to begin with?
All of their big crowds seem to involve the big 4. They don't draw as well to non-big 4 games home or away.

Compare the highest home crowd for each interstate team (though I understand that Carlton and Essendon are disadvantaged by playing at Marvel/Princes Park):

Vs Sydney
- Essendon 69237
- Collingwood 65306
- Richmond 58721
- Carlton 42788

Vs Brisbane
- Richmond 76995
- Collingwood 61868
- Essendon 50003
- Carlton 43617

Vs West Coast
- Collingwood 62957
- Richmond 57415
- Essendon 55096
- Carlton 39611

Vs Fremantle
- Collingwood 45383
- Richmond 43801
- Essendon 42665
- Carlton 30457

Vs Adelaide
- Collingwood 54790
- Richmond 54934
- Carlton 44711
- Essendon 43016

Vs Port
- Collingwood 51883
- Essendon 43012
- Richmond 41642
- Carlton 32893

Vs Gold Coast
- Richmond 38508
- Collingwood 36913
- Essendon 33710
- Carlton 31765

Vs GWS
- Collingwood 43390
- Richmond 38986
- Essendon 30143
- Carlton 28213
-------------------------------------

Now highest H&A crowds for each non-big 4 Victorian teams:

Vs Hawthorn
- Collingwood 92935
- Essendon 78294
- Richmond 70701
- Carlton 69814

Vs Geelong
- Collingwood 88115
- Essendon 87653
- Carlton 71399
- Richmond 70068

Vs Melbourne
- Collingwood 99256
- Essendon 86275
- Richmond 85657
- Carlton 60794

Vs Bulldogs
- Richmond 68447
- Collingwood 67920
- Essendon 67157
- Carlton 49406

Vs St Kilda
- Collingwood 81386
- Richmond 71488
- Essendon 62928
- Carlton 55658

Vs North
- Collingwood 72932
- Essendon 68831
- Carlton 68537
- Richmond 62606

I think you get the point.

Very good analysis.

You can really see the impact of playing interstate games in at Marvel for both Carlton & Essendon. Interestingly that 50,003 for Essendon / Brisbane was a lockout and a blockbuster match between top 6 aspirants and would’ve been a very large draw down the road.

I don’t believe Carlton are quite as strong a draw as Collingwood or Essendon. I’ve often been perplexed at their relative lack of support at matches against Essendon, although form lines account for this to a degree. Once again two weeks ago, I was surprised by their lack of numbers as the away team against Essendon, they were travelling reasonably. Kevin Sheedy half jokingly tried to spark them to get along in a slightly veiled sledge along these lines. Your stats support this qualitative view. It felt like a 70/30 crowd split Essendon’s way and I’ve often found more lopsided splits against Carlton than say Collingwood where the Pies have often had very strong support as the away team against the Bombers in my experience.

I certainly believe Carlton’s largely hopelessness over the last 20 years has impacted its crowds and meant its had far fewer opportunities than Richmond or Collingwood to test its support and deliver stronger crowds. Often Carlton are sort of done by round 3, this should be considered as an important factor in these figures.

It’s worth noting that most of Richmond’s record crowds you list have been achieved since 2017.. I’d be confident that if you redrew your stats for the period up to end of 2016 that Carlton may well be ahead of Richmond? I don’t recall many great Tigers crowds against interstate team between 1990 - 2015, a period where they had some success (winning finals).

Funny what premierships do to inflate crowds and set new records for clubs(s).

 

[What else we can do]

Is it really that they don't show up to away games or is it that Carlton aren't as big as the other 3 clubs to begin with?
All of their big crowds seem to involve the big 4. They don't draw as well to non-big 4 games home or away.

Compare the highest home crowd for each interstate team (though I understand that Carlton and Essendon are disadvantaged by playing at Marvel/Princes Park):

Vs Sydney
- Essendon 69237
- Collingwood 65306
- Richmond 58721
- Carlton 42788

Vs Brisbane
- Richmond 76995
- Collingwood 61868
- Essendon 50003
- Carlton 43617

Vs West Coast
- Collingwood 62957
- Richmond 57415
- Essendon 55096
- Carlton 39611

Vs Fremantle
- Collingwood 45383
- Richmond 43801
- Essendon 42665
- Carlton 30457

Vs Adelaide
- Collingwood 54790
- Richmond 54934
- Carlton 44711
- Essendon 43016

Vs Port
- Collingwood 51883
- Essendon 43012
- Richmond 41642
- Carlton 32893

Vs Gold Coast
- Richmond 38508
- Collingwood 36913
- Essendon 33710
- Carlton 31765

Vs GWS
- Collingwood 43390
- Richmond 38986
- Essendon 30143
- Carlton 28213
-------------------------------------

Now highest H&A crowds for each non-big 4 Victorian teams:

Vs Hawthorn
- Collingwood 92935
- Essendon 78294
- Richmond 70701
- Carlton 69814

Vs Geelong
- Collingwood 88115
- Essendon 87653
- Carlton 71399
- Richmond 70068

Vs Melbourne
- Collingwood 99256
- Essendon 86275
- Richmond 85657
- Carlton 60794

Vs Bulldogs
- Richmond 68447
- Collingwood 67920
- Essendon 67157
- Carlton 49406

Vs St Kilda
- Collingwood 81386
- Richmond 71488
- Essendon 62928
- Carlton 55658

Vs North
- Collingwood 72932
- Essendon 68831
- Carlton 68537
- Richmond 62606

I think you get the point.

Good Point Re Princes Park Marvel and consider the fact that since Fremantle and Port came into the competition we have been shite.
Vs Sydney we did get 66,000 to home final in 1986
Vs Brisbane we did get 56,000 to a home final in 2000 after losing to Melbourne
Vs West Coast we got 55,000 to a home final in 99 after getting thrashed by 13 goals against Brisbane

These are the average home games against interstate teams
Vs Sydney
Rich 25480
Coll 24877
Carl 24229 incl Princes Park up to 2004
Ess 23256

Vs Brisbane Lions
Coll 41083
Ess 37363
Rich 32703
Carl 30022 incl Princes Park 1997 to 2003
Vs Brisbane Bears
Coll 20537
Ess 16394
Carl 15103 Princes Park 1987 to 1995
Rich 14561

Vs West Coast
Coll 36426
Ess 32604
Rich 25365
Carl 24548 incl Princes Park 1987 to 2004

Vs Fremantle
Coll 32843
Ess 30517
Rich 26656
Carl 20264 incl PP 1996 to 2004

Played Adelaide at PP from 1991 to 2003 and Port 1997 to 2003

Vs Gold Coast
Ess 28766
Carl 28761
Coll 23085
Rich 17668

Vs GWS
Coll 34222
Rich 30063
Carl 21958
Ess 17745

Home/Away average Vic teams (Carlton played at PP till 2005) Wooden spoons 20 of the last 23 years???
Vs Coll (biggest club)
Carl 44859
Ess 41795
Rich 39584

Vs Carlton Second biggest club of all time

Coll 44859
Rich 38118
Ess 37368

Vs Essendon
Coll 41795
Carl H 35972 Carl A 38895 average 37368
Rich 35563

Carlton have a higher average H/A crowds than Essendon against St Kilda, Collingwood, Richmond, Fitzroy.
Carlton have a higher average H/A crowds than Richmond against Geelong Collingwood, Essendon, Geelong, North Melbourne.

Overall Collingwood and Carlton are the biggest drawing teams in the history of the league. Furthermore with finals Coll and Carl are still the biggest drawing teams.
You get the point Yeah??

 

[dave10]

Good Point Re Princes Park Marvel and consider the fact that since Fremantle and Port came into the competition we have been sh*te.
Vs Sydney we did get 66,000 to home final in 1986
Vs Brisbane we did get 56,000 to a home final in 2000 after losing to Melbourne
Vs West Coast we got 55,000 to a home final in 99 after getting thrashed by 13 goals against Brisbane

These are the average home games against interstate teams
Vs Sydney
Rich 25480
Coll 24877
Carl 24229 incl Princes Park up to 2004
Ess 23256

Vs Brisbane Lions
Coll 41083
Ess 37363
Rich 32703
Carl 30022 incl Princes Park 1997 to 2003
Vs Brisbane Bears
Coll 20537
Ess 16394
Carl 15103 Princes Park 1987 to 1995
Rich 14561

Vs West Coast
Coll 36426
Ess 32604
Rich 25365
Carl 24548 incl Princes Park 1987 to 2004

Vs Fremantle
Coll 32843
Ess 30517
Rich 26656
Carl 20264 incl PP 1996 to 2004

Played Adelaide at PP from 1991 to 2003 and Port 1997 to 2003

Vs Gold Coast
Ess 28766
Carl 28761
Coll 23085
Rich 17668

Vs GWS
Coll 34222
Rich 30063
Carl 21958
Ess 17745

Home/Away average Vic teams (Carlton played at PP till 2005) Wooden spoons 20 of the last 23 years???
Vs Coll (biggest club)
Carl 44859
Ess 41795
Rich 39584

Vs Carlton Second biggest club of all time

Coll 44859
Rich 38118
Ess 37368

Vs Essendon
Coll 41795
Carl H 35972 Carl A 38895 average 37368
Rich 35563

Carlton have a higher average H/A crowds than Essendon against St Kilda, Collingwood, Richmond, Fitzroy.
Carlton have a higher average H/A crowds than Richmond against Geelong Collingwood, Essendon, Geelong, North Melbourne.

Overall Collingwood and Carlton are the biggest drawing teams in the history of the league. Furthermore with finals Coll and Carl are still the biggest drawing teams.
You get the point Yeah??

Comparing finals to home and away games is pretty meaningless TBH. It’s comparing apples to oranges.

What period are these stats from?

These look to take into account decades when these teams were playing at Vic Paarl, Windy Hill etc. These aren’t as reliable as using the last 20 years where all clubs played much more at stadiums that were much less impacted by capacity constraints.

 

[JayJ20]

Good Point Re Princes Park Marvel and consider the fact that since Fremantle and Port came into the competition we have been sh*te.
Vs Sydney we did get 66,000 to home final in 1986
Vs Brisbane we did get 56,000 to a home final in 2000 after losing to Melbourne
Vs West Coast we got 55,000 to a home final in 99 after getting thrashed by 13 goals against Brisbane

I wasn't including finals. Just home and away. But if we want to compare finals:
Essendon vs West Coast SF - 85656
Essendon vs West Coast SF - 75453

These are the average home games against interstate teams
Vs Sydney
Rich 25480
Coll 24877
Carl 24229 incl Princes Park up to 2004
Ess 23256

Vs Brisbane Lions
Coll 41083
Ess 37363
Rich 32703
Carl 30022 incl Princes Park 1997 to 2003
Vs Brisbane Bears
Coll 20537
Ess 16394
Carl 15103 Princes Park 1987 to 1995
Rich 14561

Vs West Coast
Coll 36426
Ess 32604
Rich 25365
Carl 24548 incl Princes Park 1987 to 2004

Vs Fremantle
Coll 32843
Ess 30517
Rich 26656
Carl 20264 incl PP 1996 to 2004

Played Adelaide at PP from 1991 to 2003 and Port 1997 to 2003

Vs Gold Coast
Ess 28766
Carl 28761
Coll 23085
Rich 17668

Vs GWS
Coll 34222
Rich 30063
Carl 21958
Ess 17745

Home/Away average Vic teams (Carlton played at PP till 2005) Wooden spoons 20 of the last 23 years???
Vs Coll (biggest club)
Carl 44859
Ess 41795
Rich 39584

Vs Carlton Second biggest club of all time

Coll 44859
Rich 38118
Ess 37368

Vs Essendon
Coll 41795
Carl H 35972 Carl A 38895 average 37368
Rich 35563

Carlton have a higher average H/A crowds than Essendon against St Kilda, Collingwood, Richmond, Fitzroy.
Carlton have a higher average H/A crowds than Richmond against Geelong Collingwood, Essendon, Geelong, North Melbourne.

Overall Collingwood and Carlton are the biggest drawing teams in the history of the league. Furthermore with finals Coll and Carl are still the biggest drawing teams.
You get the point Yeah??

Are you including all-time averages? You know Princes Park has a higher capacity than Windy Hill.
There's a section on AFL tables that has averages since 1997. So approximately the last 24 years. That's far more reliable, though Carlton and Essendon are disadvantaged by limited capacity.

Still, Essendon averages a higher H/A crowd than Carlton for all the teams you named since 1997, which is far more reliable than historic data. Obviously Fitzroy isn't playing anymore. In fact, I don't think there's a single team that Carlton average more than Essendon against except for GWS, but COVID completely stuffed that average up given we hosted a hub game in front of 1178 and Carlton were the away team vs GWS.

Averages:

Vs Collingwood
- Essendon 72676
- Carlton 65279

Vs Richmond
- Essendon 62314
- Carlton 58179

Vs St Kilda
- Essendon 41407
- Carlton 36496 (With plenty of MCG games to boost the average)

Vs Bulldogs
- Essendon 40296
- Carlton 28901 (I thought this may be impacted by Princes Park, but honestly the Docklands crowds aren't too different. Only 1 crowd above 38K).

Vs Melbourne
- Essendon 44757
- Carlton 34940

You get the point.

 

[dave10]

I wasn't including finals. Just home and away. But if we want to compare finals:
Essendon vs West Coast SF - 85656
Essendon vs West Coast SF - 75453


Are you including all-time averages? You know Princes Park has a higher capacity than Windy Hill.
There's a section on AFL tables that has averages since 1997. So approximately the last 24 years. That's far more reliable, though Carlton and Essendon are disadvantaged by limited capacity.

Still, Essendon averages a higher H/A crowd than Carlton for all the teams you named since 1997, which is far more reliable than historic data. Obviously Fitzroy isn't playing anymore. In fact, I don't think there's a single team that Carlton average more than Essendon against except for GWS, but COVID completely stuffed that average up given we hosted a hub game in front of 1178 and Carlton were the away team vs GWS.

Vs Collingwood
- Essendon 72676
- Carlton 65279

Vs Richmond
- Essendon 62314
- Carlton 58179

Vs St Kilda
- Essendon 41407
- Carlton 36496 (With plenty of MCG games to boost the average)

Vs Bulldogs
- Essendon 40296
- Carlton 28901 (I thought this may be impacted by Princes Park, but honestly the Docklands crowds aren't too different. Only 1 crowd above 38K).

Vs Melbourne
- Essendon 44757
- Carlton 34940

You get the point.

That’s pretty definitive and much more reliable.

 

[What else we can do]

Comparing finals to home and away games is pretty meaningless TBH. It’s comparing apples to oranges.

What period are these stats from?

These look to take into account decades when these teams were playing at Vic Paarl, Windy Hill etc. These aren’t as reliable as using the last 20 years where all clubs played much more at stadiums that were much less impacted by capacity constraints.

I wasn't including finals. Just home and away.

Are you including all-time averages? You know Princes Park has a higher capacity than Windy Hill.
There's a section on AFL tables that has averages since 1997. So approximately the last 24 years. That's far more reliable, though Carlton and Essendon are disadvantaged by limited capacity.

Still, Essendon averages a higher H/A crowd than Carlton for all the teams you named since 1997, which is far more reliable than historic data. Obviously Fitzroy isn't playing anymore. In fact, I don't think there's a single team that Carlton average more than Essendon against except for GWS, but COVID completely stuffed that average up given we hosted a hub game in front of 1178 and Carlton were the away team vs GWS.

Vs Collingwood
- Essendon 72676
- Carlton 65279

Vs Richmond
- Essendon 62314
- Carlton 58179

Vs St Kilda
- Essendon 41407
- Carlton 36496 (With plenty of MCG games to boost the average)

Vs Bulldogs
- Essendon 40296
- Carlton 28901 (I thought this may be impacted by Princes Park, but honestly the Docklands crowds aren't too different. Only 1 crowd above 38K).

Vs Melbourne
- Essendon 44757
- Carlton 34940

You get the point.

You plucked crowds prior to 1997 to suit your argument and don't give me the Princes Park vs Windy Hill argument. The Bombers were getting crowds over 30,000 for big games against Carlton and Collingwood in 70's and 80's. The capacity was slightly our favour not like the MCG.

I brought up those finals games to show you that we are capable of getting big crowds against interstate teams.
I look at the facts overall not cherry pick periods in time re 1997 onwards as it really disadvantages Carlton for reasons I have stated.

 

[JayJ20]

A stat was bought up about largest home and away crowds

You plucked crowds prior to 1997 to suit your argument and don't give me the Princes Park vs Windy Hill argument. The Bombers were getting crowds over 30,000 for big games against Carlton and Collingwood in 70's and 80's. The capacity was slightly our favour not like the MCG.

I brought up those finals games to show you that we are capable of getting big crowds against interstate teams.
I look at the facts overall not cherry pick periods in time re 1997 onwards as it really disadvantages Carlton for reasons I have stated.

Yeah I did include crowds before 1997 when it comes to the highest crowds because any crowd above 50K must've been played at the MCG or Waverley and that's for every team. It's an even playing field there. It shows what the ceiling of that fixture is, regardless of whether it was 10 years ago or 50 years ago.

But that same logic doesn't work for averages based on suburban football grounds because of how uneven the capacity was, which is why it isn't reliable.

It's not even up for debate. The numbers are decisive.

 

[AstuteTiger]

It’s worth noting that most of Richmond’s record crowds you list have been achieved since 2017.. I’d be confident that if you redrew your stats for the period up to end of 2016 that Carlton may well be ahead of Richmond? I don’t recall many great Tigers crowds against interstate team between 1990 - 2015, a period where they had some success (winning finals).

Funny what premierships do to inflate crowds and set new records for clubs(s).

Why so salty? cant you just make your post without constantly trying to put Richmond's attendances down or find a way to devalue our attendances like your post reaks of.

Remember, whilst Richmond were crap for decades Ess, Pies and Blues had multiple years of success.
So you want to change the goalposts from Jay's post which was very insightful, to a period when Richmond was not successful at all but ok for blues, pies and bombers to have their successful periods. I get it.

Spot on Dave with this assertion>>Funny what premierships do to inflate crowds and set new records for clubs(s).

No surprise this includes your very own Essendon and Pies too. I won't worry bout posting the years for the crowds in the 30's and 40's (thousands) V some Interstate sides. The 3 biggest interstate crowds against Sydney, Lions and West Coast is what I've focused on.

It's amazing we can't have a period of success to measure how big our attendances can get to but it's alright for your club as well as pies as you hadn't mentioned them.

Let's start, you want to end the period at 2016. But from 1983 to 2016 (that's 33 years) Richmond played in ZERO GF'S

Blues from 1981 to 1999 played in 7 GF's and won 4 flags
Ess from 1983 to 2001 played in 7 GF's and won 4 flags
Pies from 1990 to 2018 played in 6 GF's and won 2 flags

I suggest before having digs at Richmond do some research and see that your 3 big interstate crowds all came from successful periods.

ESSENDON

1990 Runners up
1993 Premiers
1995 semi-finalist
1996 prelim final
v Sydney 69237, R21,1996


ESSENDON

2000 Premiers
2001 Runners up
2002 semi-finalist
2003 semi-finalist
2004 semi-finalist
v Lions 50,003, R12,2004


ESSENDON

1998 QF
1999 Top of the ladder (prelim final)
v West Coast 55096, R19,1999



COLLINGWOOD

2010 Premiers
2011 Runners Up
2012 Prelim final
2013 EF
V Sydney 65306, R9,2013


COLLINGWOOD

2002 Runners Up
2003 Runners Up
V Brisbane 61,868, R9,2003


COLLINGWOOD

2010 Premiers
2011 Runners Up
2012 Prelim final
V West Coast 62957, R13,2012

 

[dave10]

Why so salty? cant you just make your post without constantly trying to put Richmond's attendances down or find a way to devalue our attendances like your post reaks of.

Remember, whilst Richmond were crap for decades Ess, Pies and Blues had multiple years of success.
So you want to change the goalposts from Jay's post which was very insightful, to a period when Richmond was not successful at all but ok for blues, pies and bombers to have their successful periods. I get it.

Spot on Dave with this assertion>>Funny what premierships do to inflate crowds and set new records for clubs(s).

No surprise this includes your very own Essendon and Pies too. I won't worry bout posting the years for the crowds in the 30's and 40's (thousands) V some Interstate sides. The 3 biggest interstate crowds against Sydney, Lions and West Coast is what I've focused on.

It's amazing we can't have a period of success to measure how big our attendances can get to but it's alright for your club as well as pies as you hadn't mentioned them.

Let's start, you want to end the period at 2016. But from 1983 to 2016 (that's 33 years) Richmond played in ZERO GF'S

Blues from 1981 to 1999 played in 7 GF's and won 4 flags
Ess from 1983 to 2001 played in 7 GF's and won 4 flags
Pies from 1990 to 2018 played in 6 GF's and won 2 flags

I suggest before having digs at Richmond do some research and see that your 3 big interstate crowds all came from successful periods.

ESSENDON

1990 Runners up
1993 Premiers
1995 semi-finalist
1996 prelim final
v Sydney 69237, R21,1996


ESSENDON

2000 Premiers
2001 Runners up
2002 semi-finalist
2003 semi-finalist
2004 semi-finalist
v Lions 50,003, R12,2004


ESSENDON

1998 QF
1999 Top of the ladder (prelim final)
v West Coast 55096, R19,1999



COLLINGWOOD

2010 Premiers
2011 Runners Up
2012 Prelim final
2013 EF
V Sydney 65306, R9,2013


COLLINGWOOD

2002 Runners Up
2003 Runners Up
V Sydney 61,868, R9,2013


COLLINGWOOD

2010 Premiers
2011 Runners Up
2012 Prelim final
V West Coast 62957, R13,2012

You said yesterday you were not going to continue with the Essendon / Richmond discussion.

Don’t take my views personally, there’s no need to. I’m entitled to my views and I stand by them. You don’t have to agree with them. It’s only an opinion, don’t take this so seriously!!

 

[AstuteTiger]

You said yesterday you were not going to continue with the Essendon / Richmond discussion.

Don’t take my views personally, there’s no need to. I’m entitled to my views and I stand by them. You don’t have to agree with them. It’s only an opinion, don’t take this so seriously!!

Yeah, that was yesterday but when I see your posts that are so inaccurate I feel the need to counter that.

Stand by what? I just debunked your whole post.

You stated>> Funny what premierships do to inflate crowds and set new records for clubs(s).
And I corrected you with FACTS that your 3 big interstate crowds all came from successful periods.

That's not an opinion that's false posting on your part which I was happy to set the record straight.

 

[dave10]

Yeah, that was yesterday but when I see your posts that are so inaccurate I feel the need to counter that.

Stand by what? I just debunked your whole post.

You stated>> Funny what premierships do to inflate crowds and set new records for clubs(s).
And I corrected you with FACTS that your 3 big interstate crowds all came from successful periods.

That's not an opinion that's false posting on your part which I was happy to set the record straight.

I stand by my views. We agree to disagree...

 

[Raz Man]

Jeez.. are there only bombers, blues, pies , hawks & tigers supporters in this forum.
We need the cats, Saints, Demons, Kangas, Bulldogs to start speaking up...


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[Rezza Tiger]

Yeah, that was yesterday but when I see your posts that are so inaccurate I feel the need to counter that.

Stand by what? I just debunked your whole post.

You stated>> Funny what premierships do to inflate crowds and set new records for clubs(s).
And I corrected you with FACTS that your 3 big interstate crowds all came from successful periods.

That's not an opinion that's false posting on your part which I was happy to set the record straight.

Dave has a clear bias against Richmond along with some other Dons and Pies posters on here so I would be taking his opinion with a grain of salt. I kind of get it they always assumed they were the 2 biggest clubs and the "establishment" doesn't like to be rocked. The thing is Richmond have always had a big base but the lack of success through the 80s and 90s put us at a disadvantage against the other big Vic clubs to maximise crowds. Given the same set of circumstances in that era Collingwood and Essendon would have also had very poor crowds against interstate sides. Richmond's home crowds in recent years against interstate sides speaks volumes to our natural drawing power. 76K against Brisbane was insane. Highest crowds against Adelaide and Gold Coast as well. Of course some of the posters here are blind to these facts due to their agenda. Have you noticed how they trot out all the excuses for their own poor crowds but when Richmond have a shocker and we give a reasonable explanation it's a "cop out"

 

[Rezza Tiger]

I stand by my views. We agree to disagree...

As the old saying goes opinions are like assholes everyone has one. At least Astute's post was based on facts and logic

 

[Derby103]

1. AFL attendances have plummeted since Western United was admitted to the soccer league.

2. Another big factor in the recent decline was the closure of VFL Park. Why they would close a stadium only 10 minutes from my house defies comprehension.

3. 30,000 attended the St Kilda v Geelong fixture at the Junction Oval in 1923, while only 26,712 bothered to go to this year's corresponding fixture at the Telstra Dome. The population of Melbourne is just over 5,000,000 compared to about 825,000 in 1923. That means that 1 in 27 Melburnians attended the 1923 match compared to 1 in 189 this year. Most of the decrease can be explained by the fact that Western United had a home match at Marsh Stadium on the day after the St Kilda-Geelong match.

 

[Raz Man]

1. AFL attendances have plummeted since Western United was admitted to the soccer league.

2. Another big factor in the recent decline was the closure of VFL Park. Why they would close a stadium only 10 minutes from my house defies comprehension.

3. 30,000 attended the St Kilda v Geelong fixture at the Junction Oval in 1923, while only 26,712 bothered to go to this year's corresponding fixture at the Telstra Dome. The population of Melbourne is just over 5,000,000 compared to about 825,000 in 1923. That means that 1 in 27 Melburnians attended the 1923 match compared to 1 in 189 this year. Most of the decrease can be explained by the fact that Western United had a home match at Marsh Stadium on the day after the St Kilda-Geelong match.

Post of the day. This bloke wins. See you Sunday @ Marval!


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[What else we can do]

Yeah I did include crowds before 1997 when it comes to the highest crowds because any crowd above 50K must've been played at the MCG or Waverley and that's for every team. It's an even playing field there. It shows what the ceiling of that fixture is, regardless of whether it was 10 years ago or 50 years ago.

But that same logic doesn't work for averages based on suburban football grounds because of how uneven the capacity was, which is why it isn't reliable.

It's not even up for debate. The numbers are decisive.

Your argument has so many flaws your numbers only reflect a fraction of each teams pulling power.
You brought up Marvel, Princes Park and Windy Hill Covid all valid arguments now you retract it???
Carlton and Essendon have been in the competition from the start. I'm just stating the fact that overall as it stands Carlton is a bigger drawing club and Essendon has played 2 extra finals.

 

[What else we can do]

1. AFL attendances have plummeted since Western United was admitted to the soccer league.

2. Another big factor in the recent decline was the closure of VFL Park. Why they would close a stadium only 10 minutes from my house defies comprehension.

3. 30,000 attended the St Kilda v Geelong fixture at the Junction Oval in 1923, while only 26,712 bothered to go to this year's corresponding fixture at the Telstra Dome. The population of Melbourne is just over 5,000,000 compared to about 825,000 in 1923. That means that 1 in 27 Melburnians attended the 1923 match compared to 1 in 189 this year. Most of the decrease can be explained by the fact that Western United had a home match at Marsh Stadium on the day after the St Kilda-Geelong match.

Bring Back Melbourne Croatia farken our fans are the most passionate in the country. Stop with the Farken s**t