Strategy 2021 Draft and Hypothetical pick trade proposals

[Strapping Young Lad]

Lol seriously can we just have a ban on posting things ol clickbait Kornes says…

none of it is interesting and it’s all designed to just stir people up.

Hodgey wants a new rule! Hodgey gets a new rule.

No more clickbait s**t from Cornes in here.


Also:

Can we also threadban Rendell quotes. The bloke is senile.

Done

 

[TylerDurden]

Why wouldn't they? They can add elite players and solid depth in weak areas and still take multiple top 30 to the draft.

May want a 2nd look at Tom Mitchell then I reckon.

 

[Slysh]

I love crazy eyes. However given Sydney's interest in Dan, could we get a swap of Howe for Wicks? Or would there need to be picks involved?

I guess it depends on how highly Sydney rate Howe, personally would think Wicks has higher value.

With or without Howe going I hope we can get Wicks but I feel he is going to stay

 

[Billyc]

Tiges loading up. Going again.

They’d be nuts not to while Martin is still strong. Could still win another flag in the next 3 years if they get things right. My view remains that Mitchell is absolutely perfect for them and they should pay the price (two firsts)

 

[Southwest hawk]

I don’t like the idea of trading Tom. I believe he’s got more value to the club than a trade. It’s a bad culture suggesting any player past 28 years old has to be traded as their value won’t be higher.
You need players like him and O’Meara to be the fabric of the club culture.
I would honestly trade worpel before those 2 based on what the 3 individually bring to hawthorn.
trade in another elite mid/wing and with our best 22 it would be a pleasure to watch. For me, worpel and later picks for an elite talent would be the right call.

 

[daniel23]

I don’t like the idea of trading Tom. I believe he’s got more value to the club than a trade. It’s a bad culture suggesting any player past 28 years old has to be traded as their value won’t be higher.
You need players like him and O’Meara to be the fabric of the club culture.
I would honestly trade worpel before those 2 based on what the 3 individually bring to hawthorn.
trade in another elite mid/wing and with our best 22 it would be a pleasure to watch. For me, worpel and later picks for an elite talent would be the right call.

You think trading a 22 year who just became part of the leadership group is a better look?

 

[Slainte]

You can't judge a player's ability to put pressure on by how many free kicks they get compared to tackles, that's a logical fallacy.

I didn't claim that it was a direct measure of pressure. What I was suggesting was that it was an indicator of getting value from pressure. Rioli and Puopolo got a lot of frees from effective tackles and receiving high tackles. Moore draws a fair few high tackles and also wins frees by laying effective tackles. Pressure is about retaining the ball in the forward half and breaking down the defence. There is more to it than the quick pounce tackle. Moore is a pressure player but he applies pressure a little differently - but to very good effect.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

And the 7th most highly rated talent

Look, it’s really this simple.

Darcy and Daicos for all intents and purposes are not in the draft. Sure they get aligned to a pick and selected by a club on the night of the draft and they get their head on the Telly, but the fact is that the picks/points required to attach them to their club is done well before draft night. They’re not going anywhere else.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

You think trading a 22 year who just became part of the leadership group is a better look?

He's the lesser of the three players.

But age is on his side, so I think despite the above he's probably the one we should keep above all of them - unless we get a great offer of course.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Look, it’s really this simple.

Darcy and Daicos for all intents and purposes are not in the draft. Sure they get aligned to a pick and selected by a club on the night of the draft and they get their head on the Telly, but the fact is that the picks/points required to attach them to their club is done well before draft night. They’re not going anywhere else.

That doesn't change the fact that pick 5 equals the 7th highest rated talent. Nothing can be done about it, but that's the reality.

The issue is not that we don't have access to them, it's that it reduces the true value of the draft picks when it comes to trade value.

 

[Slainte]

Who is Howe playing over once Day, Sicily, CJ, Impey, Moore, Breust and Gunston return to the side? He is not getting into the team if they all return, regardless of him having a career best year.

Really he's a quality depth option, but he may not want to sit outside the best 22 again waiting for an injury to get a chance to play.

I'm not saying we should definitely trade him for Wicks, that's a separate matter. But given where we are as a rebuild; if a team is interested in a player that will sit firmly outside the best 22 then we should be exploring a potential trade.

Also Moore plays a completely different role to what Wicks does, which has been explained a few times now.

I never suggested that Wicks for Howe was a like for like trade. Howe is a versatile player but he is not a pressure forward. What I have been suggesting is that we don't need a pressure forward as desperately as some think. A pressure forward would be useful but not essential. Moore, Wingard and Kozitsche are very good pressure players and I think Brockman will develop his capacity to apply pressure.

Judging by the PCM votes, the Club rates Howe higher than you do. He can play wing, half back, half forward or mid. Where he plays depends on where the need is on any given week. He may not be an automatic selection each week but he is a seriously handy and very dependable player. He rarely does dumb things these days, unlike earlier in his career.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

That doesn't change the fact that pick 5 equals the 7th highest rated talent. Nothing can be done about it, but that's the reality.

The issue is not that we don't have access to them, it's that it reduces the true value of the draft picks when it comes to trade value.

Clubs only care about the live picks. The kids they have access to.
No recruiters are sitting in their scouting rooms saying “oh but that kid we pick with 5, will really be 7, just a reminder everyone, we don’t get the 5th best kid in the land, just the one available to us!”.

 

[theiaofseed]

You're arguing semantics, open draft pool is the only thign thats matters but you can't straight up ignore the 2 best talents aren't available but you can't worry about things that were never actually available.

Should also not just because you have pick 9 doesn't mean youre only getting the 9th best talent you've identified, every club sees the draft different.

 

[Alsmypal]

Top ten pick for Mitchell. 7s a minimum starting point or Richmond shouldn’t bother.
We hold all the cards if they want him.

 

[hfc70]

Clubs only care about the live picks. The kids they have access to.
No recruiters are sitting in their scouting rooms saying “oh but that kid we pick with 5, will really be 7, just a reminder everyone, we don’t get the 5th best kid in the land, just the one available to us!”.

Yeah but North really have Pick 3 not Pick 1 , which means GWS get Pick 4 not Pick 2 , which means Suns get Pick 5 not Pick 3……unless someone doesn’t bid and all of that means squat…..what don’t you get

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yeah but North really have Pick 3 not Pick 1 , which means GWS get Pick 4 not Pick 2 , which means Suns get Pick 5 not Pick 3……unless someone doesn’t bid and all of that means squat…..what don’t you get

Plot twist.

No one bids on Darcy or Daicos.

For those playing at home, we still get the exact same player we would have if North, Giants or Suns did bid on them.

 

[On Topic]

I agree I do think we have a good bunch of kids, underrated across the league. I just think we have to many important players that will be declining when we are becoming strong again , if there was ever a year this has to be it, even if it's future picks.

I wouldn’t stress too much about cashing in on our experienced players while they have currency. You’ll likely be disappointed with the offers with what we get in return. It’s not worth it unless they want out.

They have more value to us than a speculative draft pick.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I never suggested that Wicks for Howe was a like for like trade. Howe is a versatile player but he is not a pressure forward. What I have been suggesting is that we don't need a pressure forward as desperately as some think. A pressure forward would be useful but not essential. Moore, Wingard and Kozitsche are very good pressure players and I think Brockman will develop his capacity to apply pressure.

Judging by the PCM votes, the Club rates Howe higher than you do. He can play wing, half back, half forward or mid. Where he plays depends on where the need is on any given week. He may not be an automatic selection each week but he is a seriously handy and very dependable player. He rarely does dumb things these days, unlike earlier in his career.

I'm not saying that you claim Howe and Wicks are a like for like trade. That trade idea has been brought up because Wicks is potentially available, and Sydney reportedly have an interest in Howe.

I understand that he could potentially play a few roles for us, but he may not be willing to sit outside the best 22 after having his best season to date. Especially if Sydney are interested and are willing to offer him more game time.

As for the small forward position, we currently have Brockman and Breust on the list that play that role. Wingard is a midfielder, Moore is a HFF, Brockman will become a Breust-like player and IMO Mitchell will likely end up as a HFF type. We definitely need another player who can put pressure on defenders in our F50.

On a side note - if we are rating players based on their PCM votes, then does that mean you'd prefer Howe in the side over Scrimshaw, Worpel, Breust, etc?

 

[WWSD]

Tiges loading up. Going again.

Hello four selections inside the top 25.

 

[CHUBBSS]

I think a number of factors need to be considered.
1. Where would Tom likely want to go if he was ok with moving? To a contender? Yes. Richmond are contender with a healthy list.

2. What would Richmond be open to giving up? This is debatable, but they’ve already made commentary in the media that they will be hitting the draft, so they are playing the game regarding what they are willing to trade.

3. Both clubs will play the “we’re not trading Tom” or “pick 7 is off the table”, but there’s a big chance that a compromise will be met, as I think Richmond will want to get another mid in, and Hawthorn will want to get another 1st round pick in.

So that’s how I can see it playing out. Let’s hope more suitors come knocking.

Making big demands(Pick 7) would still be the first step, but we’re most likely going to accept less than what people on here see as best case scenario, as Richmond would clearly want to keep Pick 7.

*I don’t think Cameron and that situation is at all comparable. A key forward free agent who’s bid was matched.

Sounds like a straight swap for pick 7 then, that is a fair trade and allows them in all likely hood to win a flag or be their on the day (as long as dusty is fit)

 

[Billyc]

Sounds like a straight swap for pick 7 then, that is a fair trade and allows them in all likely hood to win a flag or be their on the day (as long as dusty is fit)

Mitchell + 24 (or 21?) for 7 + 16

 

[CHUBBSS]

Mitchell + 24 (or 21?) for 7 + 16

I would let it settle without the pick swaps, they get 3-4 years of an elite quantity and we get a two shots at an elite two elite talents with our other pick. I see that as generally win win

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

And the 7th most highly rated talent

There wouldn't be a person on here who doesn't understand how all this works. Why it continually has to be dragged up and explained and argued about is beyond me.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

They would offer 15, maybe with 28 on top for Tom......would we take it?

5, 15, 21, 24, 28 is a good hand to play with.

SOLD. Take it and run.

Another idea
Wingard & Mitchell to the Tigers for
7, 16, 26 & 28?

 

[Blackhawk42]

SOLD. Take it and run.

Another idea
Wingard & Mitchell to the Tigers for
7, 16, 26 & 28?

One of Titch or Wingard perhaps. Definitely not both.

I desperately want to keep Chad now. Only reason I'd be content with him leaving is if he said 'hey, you promised me Clarko and success, I'm out'. No way do I want to push out our only mid/fed with genuine class. Just hoping Sam finds the most appropriate way to utilise him.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

SOLD. Take it and run.

Another idea
Wingard & Mitchell to the Tigers for
7, 16, 26 & 28?

i think we need to hold onto Chad for our lives